Do you think that Mr. House is /really/ that bad?

[Wintermind]

House doesn't have a priority with spaceflight either (despite it's usefulness). He was making a point. That people could go from the wastes as they are now to actually being in space and either living there or finding a new place to live.

House's 'bug' also wasn't a simple software glitch, it was caused more so by the Lucky 38's reactor nearly melting down. I don't remember the exact dialog, but house makes it pretty clear it's not a common occurrence.

I also wouldn't use 'weak-ass' to describe the Securitrons. And these in Vegas were probably only what were on hand in Vegas/the lucky 38 when shit went down. And House only started expanding shortly before the NCR's scouts first arrived. And that was in like the twenty 2260's, so between then and now he cleared out the strip, fortified it + freeside, brought in, civilised, three tribal groups, and renovated three massive buildings and casinos, while he began renovations on Hoover Dam.

House did a lot in a little time.

Secondly, Freeside is a slum because it's wholly unimportant to House. During the game he cares primarily for three things: The Chip, The Battle, and The Future. Freeside doesn't really weight into these. I'm sure that as he reboots industry and everything, he'll renovate and expand Freeside, begin building factories, schools, and everything else. He doesn't plan on using his robot army to work in factories, they're going to be defending Vegas and the Mojave.

House does care about humanity but he focuses almost entirely on the bigger picture, the way that no one else in the wastes really does. Freeside can tear itself apart until House feels the need to actually use it and then he'll send in the securitrons to clear out the trouble makers and then actually do something with the place.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I would not call him outright "evil" but he is simply desilusional. And as such he is rather dangerous then evil because in his mind he is not accepting any other opinion then his own.

"Delusional"? Just because he has a vision doesn't mean he's delusional. We're talking about a man who single-handedly prevented the nuclear holocaust in the Mojave, prepared for the upcoming wastelands with an army of heavily armed robots of his own making, reshaped the tribal Vegas into a modern, profitable settlement... In fact, I believe he is actually the single most capable leader in 2281, capable of making the necessary sacrifices to achieve his goals.

Yeah well. Maybe we caught each other on the wrong foot.

I never questioned House's intellect or genius mind you.

Though at least to me he never gave me the impression like he would be a man following any "realistic" goals but strictly following his visions no matter the cost regardless if we are talking here about resources in humans or material. I mean you mention his efforts in preventing the "nuclear holocaust" in the Mojave. How did that worked out in the end ? he was a tad to late for it so he could only save some part of Vegas. Not to mention it was sending him in some kind of hibernation.

With saying that. His accomplishments are still very impressive. But ambitions and great visions alone dont make nations. It requires a bit more then that. No one will have a doubt that people like Alexander, Hannibal, Napoleon had certain "visions". But that didn't helped them in the end either when they failed in their goals.

And I still don't know if House is doing the things he does for humanity or simply purely for his "ego".

 

[Artemis22]

To expand on the point made by Crni Vuk. Mr. House may have saved parts of Vegas from the nukes but then what was he left with, empty buildings with maybe some survivors that will either killed by the new mutants made from the radiation, killed or enslaved by any wandering raiders, or died out from lack of essentials.

What House claims to have saved was Vegas' spirit, but then who cares what a city once was, what it becomes is more important. He may have saved part of the mojave but then it doesn't really matter, House hasn't saved anything it still became a wasteland in the end.

 

[Ilosar]

And I still don't know if House is doing the things he does for humanity or simply purely for his "ego".

Bingo. We know absolutely nothing of his motives, save for all the requisite hogwash about him being a visionary while others are not (NCR build an million-strong democratic empire out of a wasteland, how does that not require vision? but anyway). His alleged benevolence, so far, has only manifested in building things that directly serve him (namely, the Casinos). Hell, the simple fact the man tought of that plan to freeze himself and awaken post-war to rule the Wasteland with a robot army suggests he thinks only he can rule humanity, if that's not being driven by ego I don't know what is.

House's 'bug' also wasn't a simple software glitch, it was caused more so by the Lucky 38's reactor nearly melting down. I don't remember the exact dialog, but house makes it pretty clear it's not a common occurrence

Again, if his hardware is so unreliable, why should we rely on him? Whenever it's a bug or a melting reactor or a drunk puking on his screens (don't take that image too seriously), ruling only by the way of fragile machinery is very risky, at best. And what about succession, in case something goes wrong? Who will rule New Vegas? Benny? The Courier, who could very well be an idiotic asshole who caves in the face of anyone looking at him funny with a super sledge?

House does care about humanity but he focuses almost entirely on the bigger picture, the way that no one else in the wastes really does. Freeside can tear itself apart until House feels the need to actually use it and then he'll send in the securitrons to clear out the trouble makers and then actually do something with the place.

Like what? ''Hey, it is I, your dictator whose only way to influence you is by threatrening to vaporise you with my robot army, which I just ordered them to do, by the way! Ditch the guys offering you democracy or safety and let's go to space instead!'' Hell of a big picture there.

I am exagerating but the point is House didn't show any sort of capacity to care about the people under his rule, or basic understanding of how a society works, if he rebuilds friggin casinos and killer robots before farms (which the NCR did as soon as they arrived with the sharecroppers so he has absolutely no excuses), schools, medical facilities (the only clinics in all of NV are run by penny-less idealists for Christ's sake), trade routes (mainly NCR-backed caravans here, I am beginning to sense a pattern here), the kind of things that people actually need. As it stands his entire economic infrastructure depends on being a leech to NCR, with all other basic services provided by factions he has no control on like the Kings and the Followers, if he chases them out he only has his robot army, it would take years at best, decades at worst to build a nation out of New Vegas's rubbles. Meanwhile, the other two choices, even the Legion to a (much) lesser extent, have the knowledge and manpower to put the city and the Mojave to good use in short order, as shown by their epilogues.

House is maybe not that bad an option (at least his project doesn't involve enslaving or brutally killing anyone he sees). But there are simply better ones.

 

[Wintermind]

House states that he knew it was a mathematical certainty that there would be a global nuclear war. He then took steps (the Lucky 38, the securitron vault, the Chip, laser cannons, etc) to see to it that he could both A) live through the exchange and B) so could the city, so humanity could survive.

He does those things. He nearly doesn't, when the nuclear exchange nearly sends the Lucky 38's reactor into a meltdown, but he stops that, fixes his other problems, and then gets out there.

I still don't know why you're making such a big deal out of everything that has gone wrong for House. I'm surprised you haven't made a quip about how he was unlucky because the Chip didn't make it by a few hours. His shit isn't perfect, but it took a global fuckin' nuclear war to cause him any serious grief.

Like I said, he isn't really trying to do any of the stuff everyone else is doing.

Because he's not trying.

House has is hunting the Platinum Chip until you get it to him. Then it's time to immediately handle everything necessary for the battle. Then it's time to worry about schools and factories.

And the Three Families handled their own food for quite a while. They presumably had some sort of farming going on, which may have been given to the NCR in their contract with House.

You do realise that's the state of Vegas today, right? The only reason the city is there to begin with was a place for the military to stop and rest and get water. And then the casinos happened, and now the city is pretty much hugely tourist dependent.

The economic model of New Vegas doesn't really make sense, for where it is, but that's not exactly House so much as it is Obsidian.

And as to the NCR's democracy, we don't really know how democratic it is. The actions of the Van Graffs and the Crimson Caravan company make me really not want to support them, so much of the NCR seems corrupt. You can't trust them, not the way you can trust House or Caesar.

 

[LinkPain]

And I still don't know if House is doing the things he does for humanity or simply purely for his "ego".

Bingo. We know absolutely nothing of his motives, save for all the requisite hogwash about him being a visionary while others are not (NCR build an million-strong democratic empire out of a wasteland, how does that not require vision? but anyway). His alleged benevolence, so far, has only manifested in building things that directly serve him (namely, the Casinos). Hell, the simple fact the man tought of that plan to freeze himself and awaken post-war to rule the Wasteland with a robot army suggests he thinks only he can rule humanity, if that's not being driven by ego I don't know what is.

But isn't that the best thing about House?
We can only assume, but the guy did what he wanted be it his ego or ingenuity. I disagree about ruling, if he wanted to he could have ruled a country. Else he wouldn't get himself killed because of trying to save his Vegas. That's the only thing he ever cared about.

House's 'bug' also wasn't a simple software glitch, it was caused more so by the Lucky 38's reactor nearly melting down. I don't remember the exact dialog, but house makes it pretty clear it's not a common occurrence

Again, if his hardware is so unreliable, why should we rely on him? Whenever it's a bug or a melting reactor or a drunk puking on his screens (don't take that image too seriously), ruling only by the way of fragile machinery is very risky, at best. And what about succession, in case something goes wrong? Who will rule New Vegas? Benny? The Courier, who could very well be an idiotic asshole who caves in the face of anyone looking at him funny with a super sledge?

What would work better? Even the Vaults are bugged, from Fallout 1 they were, every tech will always be. Only Enclave has that "99%" working tech and it's mostly guns. And I don't remember House robots killing accidentally anyone. In fact the only thing he needs is power, that bug did not hurt him too much, nukes did like they did everyone else.
Btw isn't the Courier viewed as a ruler in Yes Man's ending? At least until he wanders off.

House does care about humanity but he focuses almost entirely on the bigger picture, the way that no one else in the wastes really does. Freeside can tear itself apart until House feels the need to actually use it and then he'll send in the securitrons to clear out the trouble makers and then actually do something with the place.

Like what? ''Hey, it is I, your dictator whose only way to influence you is by threatrening to vaporise you with my robot army, which I just ordered them to do, by the way! Ditch the guys offering you democracy or safety and let's go to space instead!'' Hell of a big picture there.

I am exagerating but the point is House didn't show any sort of capacity to care about the people under his rule, or basic understanding of how a society works, if he rebuilds friggin casinos and killer robots before farms (which the NCR did as soon as they arrived with the sharecroppers so he has absolutely no excuses), schools, medical facilities (the only clinics in all of NV are run by penny-less idealists for Christ's sake), trade routes (mainly NCR-backed caravans here, I am beginning to sense a pattern here), the kind of things that people actually need. As it stands his entire economic infrastructure depends on being a leech to NCR, with all other basic services provided by factions he has no control on like the Kings and the Followers, if he chases them out he only has his robot army, it would take years at best, decades at worst to build a nation out of New Vegas's rubbles. Meanwhile, the other two choices, even the Legion to a (much) lesser extent, have the knowledge and manpower to put the city and the Mojave to good use in short order, as shown by their epilogues.

House is maybe not that bad an option (at least his project doesn't involve enslaving or brutally killing anyone he sees). But there are simply better ones.

Compared to who is House less better? In long term.
I think even mutants were better to Legion but that's just my opinion, I don't think anyone could survive the Wastes without the knowledge of any tech and "rape mode" in their mind. Hell Khans got better than that.

 

[Ilosar]

That's exactly my point, he is not trying and we have no proof he will actually try. For what we know he will stay in his tower and let everything go to hell while he conforts himself with his robot army and looks for more Macguffins. It's not an issue of capability, but of trust. I just don't trust him to get the job done after he wins. I don't trust his murky motives. I don't trust his hardware. I don't trust his ego. I don't trust his ability to actually see what is going on (the fact that Benny, who is not exaclty the brightest in the bunch, managed to trick him is proof he is nowhere near omnipotent, hell Benny's plan could even have worked if not for the Courier). I don't trust his ability to single-handedly turn Vegas into something good after every other capable faction flees. The NCR does everything he could do, minus silly space flight promises and killer robots (Rangers are far more badass anyway, search your feelings, you know it to be true), and it can do so as soon as the gentleman over the river has his cosplaying ass handed to him.

What would work better?

Nothing, which is my point. Having a government structure that relies only one man ruling by the medium of 200 years old+ technology to work is laughable; governments don't work like that. You need a lot of people to effectively run a State bigger than a few buildings, because for all his genius intellect and cameras and whatnot House is still one human, and a flawed one at that. The very notion that he wants to rule alone is yet another thing that puts me off about him, between this and the Securitrons there is so much potential for abuse it's not even funny, and since we have no proof he cares the slightest bit about the population under his command...

And the Three Families handled their own food for quite a while. They presumably had some sort of farming going on, which may have been given to the NCR in their contract with House.

Except the farms were implemented by the NCR under the Thaler Act http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NCR_sharecropper_farms . Plus, the Families aren't big enough to need huge farms before the massive influx of NCR population comes to Vegas, there are other crop fields around the city, the sharecroppers are just the biggest and best protected.

To make it short, House's greatest fault to me is that he has not proved that he was actually capable of ruling beyond empty words. He has proven he has the power, but not the responsability that must come with it. I will not take his promises for granted about this, he should have proved he could effectively manage a nation, because that's wholly different from running a business. Even the ending kinda implies New Vegas under his power is despotic and cold, even if efficient.

 

[Crni Vuk]

You can say about House what ever you want. But he is leching on the body of the NCR. No NCR. No House.

 

[ramessesjones]

To me House isn't about ruling though, he's basically just another flavor of independence, basically the Yes-Man ending except with one more capable scientist and business man to help the area. Vegas is developing without him and will continue to do so and he hasn't given any indication he'll try to stop it; the Garrets are running a business that competes fairly directly with him, the King has built up his own power structure, the Followers have set a major camp to help the area and House has never tried to shut them down.

NCR might try to do more to help the area, but the will of the people is clearly against NCR occupation and in favor of maintaining their independence; the NCR might also take as much as they give in the process in the form of resources, taxes or freedom. House asks for very little he hasn't helped to create or maintain himself.

Also House not really against NCR except to maintain independence, he has signed a fair treaty with NCR, they are the ones looking to violate it, he wants to remains their ally and business partner and he wants the Legion defeated. The NCR is basically treacherous foreign invaders.

 

[Wintermind]

You mean no Vegas.

 

[Ilosar]

he wants to remains their ally and business partner and he wants the Legion defeated

Basically, have them do the dirty work for him. As Crni pointed out, much of House's operations depend on him being a leech to NCR, most notably the Casinos. No NCR, no New Vegas. Without the NCR Vegas would be a bright but almost empty city in the desert because who the hell thinks about going to casinos when they can barely survive? It needs a powerful base of rich people to even exist, and the NCR is the only one in the Wasteland that can provide. So 'treacherous foreign invaders' my arse. The NCR is the best thing that happened happen to New Vegas in it's short history.

Also, is independence really what Vegas needs? Look at it; apart from the Strip (and even then, look at the Omertas), it's a shithole. Freeside survives only because of the Kings (mainly), the Followers and the NCR farms (with the Van Graffs and the Garrets doing very little to improve the community). Northside is a dump inhabited only by squatters. Westside fares best, they are self-sufficient and, imo, woefully underused in the plot. But it's still chaos, with the only sort of entertainment being a bloody arena, and it harbors slavers. And without NCR, all of this would fall prey to the Fiends in short order. Annexation is maybe a bit much, but you can't argue the place desperately needs some order to become liveable.

 

[quotetheraven90]

House a bad dictator? Not really, he's better that the maniacal Caesar, "Peachy" Kimball, and creepy Yes Man.

I've play through all 4 main factions, and as far as I can tell;

House's ending is the best for me. The only thing that made me choose to kill him was because of his last task: Wiping off the Brotherhood. Hell no! I kinda thought that the devs making this small quest as a way to piss of any BoS fan, so we can all hurry back and support that "patriotic" and "democratic' NCR. Heh.

Kinda forced me to Yes Man ending, it did. But looking back, it sure felt good watching Oliver got falcon punched by Yes Man.

Not meaning to diss NCR, but hey, the devs promised this game will be fairly-balanced between factions, while the whole motion of the game telling me to support them! Really, Great Khan looked a better faction that Legion were...considering the Legion was hailed as this threatening group of savages.

 

[ramessesjones]

Basically, have them do the dirty work for him. As Crni pointed out, much of House's operations depend on him being a leech to NCR, most notably the Casinos. No NCR, no New Vegas. Without the NCR Vegas would be a bright but almost empty city in the desert because who the hell thinks about going to casinos when they can barely survive? It needs a powerful base of rich people to even exist, and the NCR is the only one in the Wasteland that can provide. So 'treacherous foreign invaders' my arse. The NCR is the best thing that happened happen to New Vegas in it's short history.

Betraying the treaty with House and having him assassinated is treachery. Outsiders attempting to conquer an area against its will are foreign invaders. So yes, the NCR are treacherous foreign invaders, whether you agree with their motives are not.

Plenty of economies survive on trade and tourism from other countries, so I don't how that is supposed to be bad thing in this case. The fact he was able to create a working economy without resorting to forcibly pillaging the surrounding areas is a good thing.

Also, is independence really what Vegas needs? Look at it; apart from the Strip (and even then, look at the Omertas), it's a shithole. Freeside survives only because of the Kings (mainly), the Followers and the NCR farms (with the Van Graffs and the Garrets doing very little to improve the community). Northside is a dump inhabited only by squatters. Westside fares best, they are self-sufficient and, imo, woefully underused in the plot. But it's still chaos, with the only sort of entertainment being a bloody arena, and it harbors slavers. And without NCR, all of this would fall prey to the Fiends in short order. Annexation is maybe a bit much, but you can't argue the place desperately needs some order to become liveable.

Does it matter if its what Vegas needs? It is what they want and they are surviving and growing in their current situation. Also I disagree about the Garrets not helping the community, they are one of the most successful home grown businesses in the area, providing needed economic growth and they are more willing to help the Followers. Also if New Vegas was going to fall to the fiends it would have already, Mean Sonobitch and the militia have driven the fiends away from Westside, Jules and Crandon have done well protecting north Vegas, and the Kings, Securitrons, three families, Gun Runners and Crimson Caravan all seem to be protecting their areas just fine.

 

[Ilosar]

Plenty of economies survive on trade and tourism from other countries, so I don't how that is supposed to be bad thing in this case.

Survives, maybe, but it stays static. Notice that the economic model you describes only applies to small nations (sometimes even city-states like Monaco) that have no other means of survival and are bordering a much more powerful one. No economy thrives if it depends solely on external resources, especially when said resources come from only one source. There is no possibility for growth when your only economic activity is something that produces no wealth and when another nation controls almost all trade routes. You stand if they stand, you fall if they fall, but they can also ditch you if they so desire (which the NCR is trying to do). This is not a working economy. At all. Logically, House's situation should be very precarious, if not for the fact NCR can't afford to really confront him and Ceasar openly at the same time.

As it stands, House is really, really lucky that the NCR and the Legion arrived in the region of New Vegas at the same time. If any faction got there without opposition, his whole enterprise would have crumbled. Without the plot device... err Platinum Chip, he stands no chances against them. Not to mention his plan relies on the whims of an unreliable loose cannon, but that's more because of this being a game and all so we can't really blame him.

Also, if you take a peek at the endings, a victorious NCR hardly conquers the area. If the Kings bargained with them, Freeside remains pretty independent, as do the Followers, and the Fiends are destroyed. The other sections are sadly left unsaid, so we don't know how they benefit from the victory or defeat of House. It also says they negotiated terms, they didn't just send squadrons of troops. (unless the Kings openly resist them).

Does it matter if its what Vegas needs? It is what they want and they are surviving and growing in their current situation

Surviving, yeah, but growing? Who says they do? There are more people, yes, but that's mainly because of the people kicked out of the Strip and the influx of NCR citizens, not because the region is stable enough to ensure prosperity. All of New Vegas save the Strip remain in survival mode; some just do better than others.

Not meaning to diss NCR, but hey, the devs promised this game will be fairly-balanced between factions, while the whole motion of the game telling me to support them

NCR is over-represented in the game, that's really true. The Legion needed more than two took over towns and a military outpost. House needed to show more of his power than just robots and casinos. But all over the course of the game you have people complaining about NCR's various faults, whenever legitimate or not, so it kinda balances out. The fact it's the faction with the most depth also means we know more about it's intricate mechanics, it's strenght and weaknesses, which is a treatment the other choices simply do not have.

 

[burningsnow126]

Mr. House has strengths and weaknesses like all the other factions. House's main strength is his protection and security of the New Vegas Strip and being able to get it functional with the help of the Families. House really helps the whole Mojave indirectly too. All the towns and small settlements would not be able to exist without all the travel that Vegas attracts. There would be no way for any source of income to get to these towns with out NCR's ever growing wealth. The main weakness, as many others have already stated, is his reliance of technology. All it would take to destroy the securitrons would be a group of people who found a stockpile of pulse grenades and mines (not to mention the pulse gun). If that happened, what now? Obviously that probably shouldnt happen but imagine that. Another thing is if his life support chamber fails. Then there would be nothing to control his army and the strip. Really the only way for there to be a future for the mojave is the NCR. However, IMO, I wish the Brotherhood would take over because they have the human quality and there know-how of tech to protect vegas. If the entire westcoast Brotherhood moved to the mojave that is. To sum it up House is okay to protect to strip and only the strip, but only with the help of robots and a handful of greedy refined tribals.

 

[LinkPain]

But if New Vegas sticks out too much which it already does, NCR or Legion would move on it aggressively. House is the perfect cold medium there. There is no true government so only a single capable ruler can function, like Lanius or Caesar in Legion. This is pure survivability and House fits in all the needs for Vegas, alone he made them work but it is true that he needs others to come regularly to the city. Heck if it weren't for the families...

My perspective on House compared to the others except Yes Man is harsh and cold one as I look at how many people need to be sacrificed or left alive and left to be able to survive. While I am immensely inspired by the Legion system for soldiers (like true Spartans), the people who survive after their "horde" would be little next to small number. Not counting slaves as they can be easily killed. NCR is pure America, get in and try to install democracy while killing a few. If they repel eventually they will be trampled.

Now let's get back at the House. He needs key figures killed or moved in the right direction. To others, he gives them limits which are truly necessary. I wouldn't let anyone tamper robots, look at Benny and how it turned out. At the same time he makes Vegas some sort of a beacon of hope if an exaggerated one . And of course by his terms, but he doesn't go make a public killing for riot or tries to ramble on megaphone about ultimate nation. He has the robots, he cleans the city, he makes it operate after 200 hundred years. People have freedom to come and go and stay as they please. In my opinion that is ok situation in the wastes, at least gives you more % of survivability.
Take a step back to Yes Man, he does the same only he gives more freedom to the people. But his robots, his city to make it function.
So let's question ourselves here, which is better for Vegas. A malfunctioned robot turned super AI with no apparent human feelings to govern it in it's own way or House who is the city basically? He might kill people one day for fun or because somebody said so, maybe Courier did?
This rhetorical but intended to give a though, as none of the endings are perfect, which is precisely why FNV is awesome. But I want to point out that House isn't the worst or more bad then others, he is original in it's own way.

Btw, even if NCR is over-represented I think it's on purpose to make you hate them or love them quite early in the game. They don't win over other factions too much just by representation, in fact I think they lose. I killed Kimball and loaded several times because the guy is such a douchbag...at that point I fkin hated NCR to the guts and changed to Yes Man and House ending.

 

[rat]

sry to necro but just replayed for the first time in about a year and killed house for the first time.
personally i like him, and sided with him during first play through.
but after killing him many of the residents around the strip will talk shit and express their happiness for him being dead. the lady who owned vault 22 for example.
i believe he believed himself to be a good guy (based on what he says when you open his pod among other things) but maybe he tried to hard to be a just ruler and ended up becoming a dictator which led to the strip population disliking him.
maybe he had to choose between the strips safety or the admiration of its inhabitants and chose to keep them safe (even if it made them dislike him).
or maybe he was just a dick, the world will never know.

 

[Atomic Postman]

House is kind of complicated. Independence for the Mojave and for Vegas is a good thing in general and House isn't out right sadistic or evil, but he is a control freak. The snowglobe thing and his obsession with a past Vegas that in reality didn't quite exist is supposed to clue you off that for all his grandure of spaceflight and the like, all he really wants is Vegas as his glowing little snowglobe of the Old World to shake around. Take from that what you will.