Enclave in FO3

The best explanation I can offer from the misguided belief that the Enclave was explicitly restricted to the West Coast is that people assumed that much like the Mariposa Base with its FEV experimentation it was something exclusive to that general area.
[spoiler:14dd45ba4a]
That's a pretty terrible explanation, but people do that quite often, they get the details mixed up and it's understandable.

As for FEV, I'm somewhat certain that was something the developers had always intended to be isolated, rather than being spread to the East Coast, however I'm guessing Bethesda's squirreling out of that hitch would be "Well, it's not the same FEV."[/spoiler:14dd45ba4a]

The Enclave in Fallout 3 was one of the few things that did not disappoint me, but that's just because they were never that spectacular in Fallout 2, but the dialog was still subpar as I mentioned earlier in the thread.
I think they could've done a bit better with the exposition at Raven Rock, as it was, it was too short.

The whole [spoiler:14dd45ba4a]Eden versus the Enclave Soldiers[/spoiler:14dd45ba4a] bit was admittedly neat and one of my favorite part of the Main Quest.

EDIT: Whoops, forgot to spoiler some juicy stuff.
 
It's not that the continued existence of the enclave is confusing. There could be thousands of perfectly reasonable explanations as to this. What gets me is that Bethesda didn't bother to explain exactly that the fuck happened. They are there.......and they just sort of show up at a designated point in the game out of the blue and start fucking shit up. Great....

Yet another sign that points to an inevitable conclusion: This game should not be considered a sequel, rather a fresh start with the genre, which is fine.......except it is marketed as a sequel.

Despite the oblviion similarities, i enjoyed the game, it was fun, it felt like fallout, but it is not Fallout 3.

Now as to my thoughts on the FO3 enclave? One word. Random.
 
The best explanation I can offer from the misguided belief that the Enclave was explicitly restricted to the West Coast is that people assumed that much like the Mariposa Base with its FEV experimentation it was something exclusive to that general area.
Click to expand...

It was limited to the West Coast. Navarro was its first base after the War set up outside the Oil Rig. It's pretty much implied in FO2. There were some smaller outposts, but none outside the West Coast.

However, Raven Rock was a pre-war computer installation connected to PoseidoNet that the Enclave still had remote access to, and after the fall of the Oil Rig, Eden assumed leadership over the confused remnants of the Enclave, ordering them to relocate.
 
They didn't exactly "show up", it's more like they decided to take action, it's obvious from the Eyebots and GNR's (and the Brotherhood's) awareness of their existence that they've been there for awhile, that goes for the random NPCs that support them as well.

I wasn't really that concerned with it, the whole vibe I got is that the Enclave was a prevalent entity in all areas that had become the new hubs of civilization between the events of FO2 and FO3, or else, had been as such. These places being of course heavily populated areas such as the bits of California the first two games take place in, and DC.

Their agenda always seems to be proliferation of their own influence against the wastelanders and for themselves, and thus I'd assume that they would have to be close to the major population centers post-war to accomplish their goals.
Project Purity had been going for decades as well, they could have easily been aware of it beforehand and had stayed back while the Brotherhood was monitoring the project, the instant James and Dr. Li attempt to start it back up with nothing but you as their protection the Enclave took the initiative and took over the project while there was no one to resist them.

EDIT: @Ausir: I was under the impression that while Navarro was their first established base that the Enclave itself had managed to extend their influence beyond that area within the events of Fallout 2.
 
Well there are even mention of Enclave survivors from Navarro in the game...


[spoiler:e52b662a5b]The kid's dad in Greyditch is a Navarro deserter. Dead but is one. Unless I misread something.[/spoiler:e52b662a5b]

Just food for thought I suppose.
 
Ausir said:
However, Raven Rock was a pre-war computer installation connected to PoseidoNet that the Enclave still had remote access to, and after the fall of the Oil Rig, Eden assumed leadership over the confused remnants of the Enclave, ordering them to relocate.
Click to expand...

And that'd be convincing!

It's not that the continued existence of the enclave is confusing. There could be thousands of perfectly reasonable explanations as to this. What gets me is that Bethesda didn't bother to explain exactly that the fuck happened. They are there.......and they just sort of show up at a designated point in the game out of the blue and start fucking shit up. Great....
Click to expand...

The whole plot of the game looks like it's been written in an hour, without a second thought and willingness to research more to make it a true sequal to the originals.
 
I_eat_supermutants said:
Well there are even mention of Enclave survivors from Navarro in the game...


[spoiler:ec906687bd]The kid's dad in Greyditch is a Navarro deserter. Dead but is one. Unless I misread something.[/spoiler:ec906687bd]

Just food for thought I suppose.
Click to expand...

Yes he was, it seems like he left in the middle of FO2 though, which is sort of bizarre, there are a few decades bridging FO2 and FO3 which makes the timing for that rather difficult to figure out.

Unless he likes keeping ten year old journal entries on his PC.
 
About Eden,

[spoiler:2e321ff7a8]
I'll admit, I thought Eden was lying when he agreed to blow himself up, because it did seem abrupt. Imagine my surprise when I escaped, and everything did blow up.

But like The Flying Buddha, I thought about it, and I took the same conclusion that he did. This wasn't a character that was saying things but meaning another thing, this was a character that was saying things and meaning them.

Hell, I interpreted the schism between Eden and Colonel Autumn to mean that everyone in the Enclave assumed that Eden really didn't believe everything he was saying either. They assumed that, like Autumn and previous Enclave higher-ups, that all the talk of democracy and freedom was PR nonsense.

It wasn't what the player said to Eden that was so convincing, it was so convincing because nobody ever bothered to ask it to Eden.
[/spoiler:2e321ff7a8][/spoiler]
 
I agree on the Enclave being on the East Coast. I am sure the group was fairly spread along, and I am sure some small contingent stayed in Washington DC, since it is also a matter of historic value (the Capital after all), and they seem petty enough to stick to it.
 
If you examine Eden's dialogue more closely, or at least the path I talked through, what happened was he was faced with the fact that there is no objective right or wrong.

When confronted with this he ends up sounding confused and subdued and it's likely at that point it would have ended up doing whatever you said purely because he has no confidence in himself anymore.

At least that was my take on it.
 
Carib FMJ said:
I agree on the Enclave being on the East Coast. I am sure the group was fairly spread along, and I am sure some small contingent stayed in Washington DC, since it is also a matter of historic value (the Capital after all), and they seem petty enough to stick to it.
Click to expand...


Right, they were the "remains of the United States government" and the have the technology to travel everywhere after the holocaust...

Remember: ... the Enclave was once the shadow government of the United States. Members of the Enclave were hardliners who both embraced the idea of a nuclear war and knew that the common man could not survive it. They believed that as long as the “important people” of the United States survived, they could regroup quickly and wipe out communism once and for all. Though not technically part of the Enclave, many powerful corporations benefited from the Enclave’s actions and their research facilities were protected during the firestorm of 2077.
 
The Enclave of recycled plots

I haven't played Fallout 3 myself yet, but reading up on it something just occurred to me. The main plot seems like a retelling of Fallout 2. Here we have the Enclave. They want to kill all mutated people using FEV. The Brotherhood of Steel oppose them. The story here seems more fitting for an expansion pack for Fallout 2. "The threat of the Enclave was not over. Their remains gathered under a new leader and sought anew to destroy the people of the wasteland."

Meanwhile, reading about Van Buren one thing I really liked how the main villain rose from the destroyed world, and not the remains of the old one (which was apparently changed from latter to former during development). I am in the crowd who never found the Enclave all that interesting as a villain in the first place. It's not the often-used "secret government" idea that gets me, but that their motives seem extremely simplistic. "We are true Americans. You are mutants and deserve to die. God bless America." Yay for you.
 
If the game is a reboot like Batman Begins or Casino Royale, then the game serves itself well as a reboot. Now, what is confusing is they called the game FALLOUT 3. It has been debated to death on here but if they were trying to bring the wasteland story to the next generation of consoles then they should have considered doing that Black Isle did with the game "wasteland" and "fallout" so this game should have been givin a new name except contained all the elements of the wasteland world.
So that being said, using the first 2 games and mashing them up to give us a 3rd is not bad. I think I would rather have the game than not.

The Enclave are decent baddies. I mean in Fallout you hardly have allies, everyones out to get you so.... super tech bad guys in a destroyed world are pretty cool.
 
Hello Crowley,

I am in the same crowd, while I did like the Enclave I accepted that they were defeated after Fallout 2.
Bethesda has turned them into cartoon villains, being defeated but popping again to try their scheme of killing all mutants.

The Super Mutants have also been pretty much wasted, like the Enclave they were nothing like a 2 Dimensional villain whose task was mostly to serve as cannon fodder for the player.

Bethesda even ripped off Van Buren's BOMB001 subplot by putting in a satellite uplink to an armed ballistic platform that basically serves no point in the game other than show an animation of missiles coming down from the sky and detonating harmlessly.

Hell, at some point you enter a missile base and in order to get to a stash of goodies you need to fire an ICBM.

Bethesda simply is incompetent at story writing, they can't come up with engaging characters with interesting backgrounds, deep quests, or any concept at all.
All they can do is repeat what someone else did before.

MisterBibs said:
About Eden,

[spoiler:6a5a179a60]
I'll admit, I thought Eden was lying when he agreed to blow himself up, because it did seem abrupt. Imagine my surprise when I escaped, and everything did blow up.

But like The Flying Buddha, I thought about it, and I took the same conclusion that he did. This wasn't a character that was saying things but meaning another thing, this was a character that was saying things and meaning them.

Hell, I interpreted the schism between Eden and Colonel Autumn to mean that everyone in the Enclave assumed that Eden really didn't believe everything he was saying either. They assumed that, like Autumn and previous Enclave higher-ups, that all the talk of democracy and freedom was PR nonsense.

It wasn't what the player said to Eden that was so convincing, it was so convincing because nobody ever bothered to ask it to Eden.
[/spoiler:6a5a179a60]
Click to expand...

You do know what you just said makes for poor and unconvincing story telling right?
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
MisterBibs said:
About Eden,

[spoiler:f2e0fc73ad]
I'll admit, I thought Eden was lying when he agreed to blow himself up, because it did seem abrupt. Imagine my surprise when I escaped, and everything did blow up.

But like The Flying Buddha, I thought about it, and I took the same conclusion that he did. This wasn't a character that was saying things but meaning another thing, this was a character that was saying things and meaning them.

Hell, I interpreted the schism between Eden and Colonel Autumn to mean that everyone in the Enclave assumed that Eden really didn't believe everything he was saying either. They assumed that, like Autumn and previous Enclave higher-ups, that all the talk of democracy and freedom was PR nonsense.

It wasn't what the player said to Eden that was so convincing, it was so convincing because nobody ever bothered to ask it to Eden.
[/spoiler:f2e0fc73ad]
Click to expand...

You do know what you just said makes for poor and unconvincing story telling right?
Click to expand...

That raises a whole lot of questions. Why would Enclave leave something like Eden up and running with the capability to take over operations? Would nobody in the Enclave seriously figure that out about how Eden works? Another thing is that the AIs in Fallout universe have consistently been portrayed as far more flexible than what Eden apparently is. It doesn't seem a satisfying conclusion to face up against an AI villain, then tell it the equivalent of "this statement is false" and watch the circuits fry as it tries to solve it. In my opinion this portrays both Eden and the rest of the Enclave as fairly incompetent folks, and given they are the main villains it undermines the entire story.
 
The final dialouge with Eden, to me demonstrates, to me, the one primary problem with F3: varied quality and choppy flow of many dialouges. The basic writing is fine, the voice acting is OK, but the flow of conversaations was quite grating in a few places.


Eden was the PRIME example for me, it was like a F1 homage, poorly done. I think they need to make a dialouge scripting system and a test program that all you do is play test long portions of the game using dialouge only so one can thoroughly test your conversations (actually Bioware does this, their conversations generally sound good and are decently written, unfortunately, their conversation choices for the player are even MORE atroicious).

I mean there were a few places were there was some good genius writing, and other places were "WTF" - more quality control and more options.

Another prime example is if you want Fawkes out of your party, the only was to do it is to sound like an ass "YOU'RE FIRED" - but i want to say "hey can we catch up later? i wanna go solo right now"

If they can really fix that up in a future release, I would be perfectly happy, the rest of the game plays fine for me as is.


They have the right idea, just no experience doing it that way - oh well, not everyone is Black Isle/Troika when it comes to conversation scripting :)
 
You do know what you just said makes for poor and unconvincing story telling right?
Click to expand...

Like I said, after I thought about it a bit, I was convinced by Eden's actions. I still am only 50-50 on being convinced that Master blowing himself up as actually altruistic.

Rev. Layle said:
Another prime example is if you want Fawkes out of your party, the only was to do it is to sound like an ass "YOU'RE FIRED" - but i want to say "hey can we catch up later? i wanna go solo right now"
Click to expand...

Except that you can tell him to wait where he is.
 
MisterBibs said:
Except that you can tell him to wait where he is.
Click to expand...
Yes, but that means he is still my follower and I gave him an order, however, technically I could do that and get another follower - however, the only way to dismiss him is to be a total dick?
 
It was a dumb fanfiction moment, definitely. An incredibly weak homage to Fallout 1.

Plus, making the president an AI is something deus ex would do. Come on.

Speaking of which, one look at Deus Ex 3 and it's obvious that the fallout fanbase got off pretty fucking lucky here. They didn't turn Fallout 3 into final fantasy 12 so count your blessings
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top