SpecialtyDrone
First time out of the vault
As far as the whole "Had to lockpick my way into the saloon" thing, Gstaff at the official forums said the previewer had gone in through the back door.
Eurogamer previews Fallout 3 yet again
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First time out of the vault
Johnny Angel
First time out of the vault
Oh, Marathon, how you soon you are forgot.
Johnny Angel said:
The difference is that now with our next-gen technology, the shields recharge themselves instead of going to (snicker) recharge points.
What a ridiculous concept, leaving the player in charge of managing their health.
Mass Effect:
Yes - OH GOD YES, I WILL DO IT FOR YOU HUMBLY, I LOVE YOU.
Ok - Yes.
No - FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU ALL, YOU WILL ALL DIE, SUCK MY BIG FAT MULATTO COCK
They were extremes people, you couldn't say no without Shepard exploding into a massive dickhead phase, and you couldn't say yes without him crying and reminiscing about his duties towards the good of all outer spaces.
Yes - OH GOD YES, I WILL DO IT FOR YOU HUMBLY, I LOVE YOU.
Ok - Yes.
No - FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU ALL, YOU WILL ALL DIE, SUCK MY BIG FAT MULATTO COCK
They were extremes people, you couldn't say no without Shepard exploding into a massive dickhead phase, and you couldn't say yes without him crying and reminiscing about his duties towards the good of all outer spaces.
Zacirus
Wasteland Lurker
I did not like Mass Effect at all. Long and boring in my opinion and like Eyenixon just stated, dialog was either good, simple answer, or evil, all in all terrible.
Marathon will never be forgotten! But aye, as was pointed out, in the Marathons you had to recharge your shield at stations, as opposed to it recharging itself after a short time.Johnny Angel said:
I'd disagree with the assertion that Halo's recharging shield system made Halo "easy." Halo on legendary is still extremely tough. The combat AI is also still 1000x better than what Bethesda can seem to manage. I'm only talking about the original Halo, the best of the trilogy.
Anyway, although I'd agree that the whole situation in the saloon is silly, to be fair: I can't really think of many - if any - games that have had NPCs that reacted to things like shooting a gun and hitting a wall or whatever. Although you'd think that, with all the immersion talk, implementing something like that would be on Bethesda's list.
Zacirus
Wasteland Lurker
If anything you would think a guard would tell you to check or holster your weapon at the door, anything! The door locked for a saloon with patrons in it is kinda pathetic, why would the owner lock the door? Or am I asking to much from them?
Xenophile
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Are you guys not reading? A few posts up they said the previewer went through the BACK door.. So not a big deal..
Xenophile said:
Yes, because that makes all the difference
If you pick locks, you're entering through a door that the owner of a building intended you not to go through. If you approach from the direction of that door and the building is occupied, I would at least expect a "Where the fuck did you come from?".
Xenophile said:
No. It's still kind of a big deal.
Especially when Bethesda LOVES to brag about "immersion" and "feeling like you're really in this world" and "we have fulfilled the promise of virtual reality"
Try this. Go to a restaurant through the front door.....see how you're treated.
And then try picking the back door, and coming in through the kitchen.
See if people notice a difference.
I think the lock-picking point can best be illustrated by comparing it to an identical situation in the original games or Arcanum: you break in to a building in plain sight, someone is going to do their best to fuck your shit up, and this is in a game that is over 10 years old as Bethesda are all too keen to point out.
A modern, next generation game is failing where the original games excelled. Hell, with a bit of thought put in to such a situation, you could programme a standard scenario response that even opens up the situation for some good role-playing.
The offended party could confront the player, and through dialogue, depending on stats etc., the player could try to intimidate, bluff or pay their way through the event. You could even make a little side-quest out of the situation where the player character is forced to do the dishes for several hours.
Instead, we've got an immersion-breaking scene from the self-confessed worshippers of such.
I'm a normal game-playing pleb, and even I can come up with better ways of dealing with such a situation than Bethesda.
The gunshot in the bar is just the icing on the cake.
Or the foot in the turd, whichever metaphor takes your fancy.
A modern, next generation game is failing where the original games excelled. Hell, with a bit of thought put in to such a situation, you could programme a standard scenario response that even opens up the situation for some good role-playing.
The offended party could confront the player, and through dialogue, depending on stats etc., the player could try to intimidate, bluff or pay their way through the event. You could even make a little side-quest out of the situation where the player character is forced to do the dishes for several hours.
Instead, we've got an immersion-breaking scene from the self-confessed worshippers of such.
I'm a normal game-playing pleb, and even I can come up with better ways of dealing with such a situation than Bethesda.
The gunshot in the bar is just the icing on the cake.
Or the foot in the turd, whichever metaphor takes your fancy.
SpecialtyDrone said:
How does Gstaff know?
And - for that matter - why does the bar have a back door that opens up to the main bar? Usually if you have a back door it opens up to the kitchen or larder.
And again, I can point to a decade old game, Outcast, where even pointing a gun at civilians would cause them to flee, not just the sound of gunshots. It's pretty disappointing that next-gen games are next-gen in graphics only, if that. And don't forget the hype.Kyuu said:
Kyuu said:
Ever since GTA: San Andreas had people reacting not only to you firing, but also to you pointing a gun at them (police immediately attacks you if you point a gun at them, for instance), it's pretty much come to be expected in "next gen" gaming. GTA IV apparently even has people react if you run into a bank with gun unholstered. Never even mind the system in place in the Hitman series.
GTA VC/SA reactions worked; citizens ran away, opposing gang members or police would turn hostile if you point a gun at them or fire a gun in their vicinity. Even such simple reactions are better than none.
2004's Vampire: Bloodlines had it counting as a "criminal violation" to attack and nearly miss a civilian or to fire a gun amongst civilians, and the police would be after you (it did not have reactions to you randomly attacked a wall with a bat, tho'). SA is from 2005. VC is from 2002. It's not strange that people consider this as a minimum in open-world, reactive RPGs now.
Seymour the spore plant
Still Mildly Glowing
This whole "apathetic NPCs" situation reminds me of the time when I found out you could target and attack doors in Fallout 2. Rose's Bed and Breakfast never bothered me again with those damn auto-closing doors, but it was pretty silly that nobody seemed bothered by my kicking every door in the place down.
Looks like Bethesda is, once again, overhyping and underdelivering on the immersion factor.
Looks like Bethesda is, once again, overhyping and underdelivering on the immersion factor.
Ausir said:
Wait, what?
What're you too on about? The preview only mention the lockpicking minigame, which has been described before (it's something dependent on sounds and the player reacting to them, I seem to recall)
Where're you getting this mini-game for persuasion from?
I seem to remember the dialogue minigame from one or two of the countless previews as well, but there are certainly many more that don't mention it.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I thought that they said that they weren't going to use it. I was under the impression that the dialogue choices with percent chances by them was essentually replacing any need for it...Per said: