Fallout 2: CONTROVERSIAL!!
- Thread starter Herr Mike
- Start date
The original Pool of Radiance required you to go to a guild to level up.
I guess you won't be playing many future games, then. Your loss. Or maybe not.alec said:
There are some pretty decent games with 3D engines, though.Well, I did play Wolfenstein 3D back in the good ol' days, but that wasn't really a 3D engine, was it? And I have played the original Unreal Tournament demo and actually enjoyed it quite a bit.Buxbaum666 said:I guess you won't be playing many future games, then. Your loss. Or maybe not.
Thing is: I get terrible headaches from playing 3D games. Motion sickness or something, I guess. Also: I am probably one of few who thinks that 2D sprites look way better than anything 3D. Engines have probably gotten a whole lot better nowadays, but the first time I saw a vehicle driving around with wheels that looked like octagons or even worse, I simply thought: "Nope, they're gonna have to try a whole lot better if they want to convince good ol' wishy-washy alec to spend his money on that."
Oh, wait... Commandos 2 did use a 3D engine for interiors, didn't it?
I played that. A couple of times, in fact. But those graphics are so small, they could have passed for bad 2D sprites.
I'm going to save a whole lot of money in the future. That's all I know for sure.
I know a guy who literally gets sick from 3D games, too. We played UT once and he got a headache and had to puke after about half an hour. Man, that has to suck. I wouldn't be the same person today if I couldn't have played Half-Life back in the days. I'd probably be that amazing guy I always thought I would be and get laid and everything. Meh, you can't have everything.
turboninja
First time out of the vault
Herr Mike said:
fuck skills doesnt matter its just a game but arroyo just sucks including temple of stupid trials, elder hakunin and such
yeah i was pissed with that first day i saw fallout2
same as above comepletly stupid idea much dumber than single talking plant and wierd scorpion althro everything sucks even good mutants talking mutants are wierd and stupid
i like wanamingos but i really hate fire geckos thats another stupid thing
civilizations were actually good i even like new reno
san fran sucks due to underdevelopment and it should actually had it own interest althro not beeing any political player
overally fallout2 had shitty atmosphere at some point it just became dumb
I wouldn't agree with that, i.e. I do agree that Fallout 1 had a really neat atmosphere of all those ruined cities and dark-and-murky vaults but on the other hand, FO 2 was in terms of graphics and engine the exact copy of FO 1, so what if it was the same theme? Clone, they'd say. Released in the same year. And isn't Marcus the good mutant a really original character despite being a good mutant? Isn't Harold a bright point? You get to see ghouls and mutants from a different side, and also some really evil humans from the Enclave, and there weren't many truly evil people in FO 1, it was just like Master, the Vats, Master and the Vats. I also miss great raw atmosphere of FO 1, but FO 2 more than makes up for it with other features which allow to forget that it's a little less post-apocalyptic - and it provides a different atmosphere, which also isn't bad!
turboninja
First time out of the vault
Kuj2 said:
fallout 1 was poor, small and undeveloped but it was real fallout
fallout 2 had it own atmosphere but it completly messed fallout theme in few places... i hope that some day we will see some big mod wich is going to change fallout2 nature
fallout 2 = bigger dumbed down fallout 1. quanity vs quality, the only thing wich is really huge adventage are quests wich require you to travel around map. this made game glued to itself othwerwise it would become crap
in fallout2 there were good and evil places, more of good ones...in fallout 1 it seems that almost everything is evil except few npcs and (maybe) you
TheGM
The voice of reason
alec said:Well, I did play Wolfenstein 3D back in the good ol' days, but that wasn't really a 3D engine, was it? And I have played the original Unreal Tournament demo and actually enjoyed it quite a bit.Buxbaum666 said:I guess you won't be playing many future games, then. Your loss. Or maybe not.
Thing is: I get terrible headaches from playing 3D games. Motion sickness or something, I guess. Also: I am probably one of few who thinks that 2D sprites look way better than anything 3D. Engines have probably gotten a whole lot better nowadays, but the first time I saw a vehicle driving around with wheels that looked like octagons or even worse, I simply thought: "Nope, they're gonna have to try a whole lot better if they want to convince good ol' wishy-washy alec to spend his money on that."
Oh, wait... Commandos 2 did use a 3D engine for interiors, didn't it?
I played that. A couple of times, in fact. But those graphics are so small, they could have passed for bad 2D sprites.
I'm going to save a whole lot of money in the future. That's all I know for sure.
Well I wouldn't go far to say that 3d is ugly. But I am still a sucker for 2d. As a fan of Cartoons and animation, the 32 bit era was such a pain on my eyes I rarely go back to play any of those melted lego looking games.
And the Followers, and the underground ghouls, and Kilian along woth half the population of Junktown, and the citizens of the vault (not all, though ), and the Brotherhood of Steel (they're rough, yeah, but the wasteland kind of necessitates that), and the Gunrunners (are they evil?), and the people of Shady Sands, and the Blades, and Zax (hardly an NPCturboninja said:
)! And you. That's more than a few NPCs. Even the Master can afford some afterthoughts and blow himself up I don't deny that FO 2 has like a LOT less atmosphere than FO 1. But hey, don't judge it so roughly. Two can play at a game.
Fallout 2 lacked some of the grim isolationist vibe that fallout 1 had but it just showed the natural progression of the wastes. Cities eventually rebuild, people regroup, major political players appear from the dust and rubble. In fallout the world was still in dissaray, people were forced to steal and kill to eek out an existance, in fallout 2 trade routes have been long established communities no longer have to be self-sufficient, they all have goods and services they can render for whatever they may need. Broken Hills had uranium, New Reno had Jet, Redding had Gold, Vault City had medical supplies and advanced tech. Humans are social animals most feel a need to be in constant conact with others so its just natural that these oasis' of people would begin to spring up. Fallout 2 just accounts for the progression of the wastes over the 80 some years since the Vault Dweller destroyed the Master and the Vats and broke the mutant army.
Herr.
I think you missed the whole point about the open endedness of Fallout.
If you didnt like the "governments" in fallout 2 you did some quests, pumps your skills, got some sweet gear and shot up the entire goddamn town.
That is what the mutliple endings were supposed to be used for. It would be awesome to have a more indepth ending that more reflects the choices you made in the game.
I think you missed the whole point about the open endedness of Fallout.
If you didnt like the "governments" in fallout 2 you did some quests, pumps your skills, got some sweet gear and shot up the entire goddamn town.
That is what the mutliple endings were supposed to be used for. It would be awesome to have a more indepth ending that more reflects the choices you made in the game.
It's my opinion that the thing that hurts the atmosphere of fallout 2 (in comparisson to that of fallout 1) the most, is not the "too much civilization", for that is just the logical step given how much time has passed between the ages of the first and second game, AND the "good" endings obtainable in the first game, no, what hurts the atmosphere the most is the forced feeling of civilization (of real world civilization) transmitted by the ridiculous amounts of easter eggs, cliches, crappy movie references (to make a subtle reference here and there like in the first fallout is ok, but in fallout 2 some of them were full-blown-out-exaggerations, completely unnecessary, and, by crappy movie references i mean not only the reference itself but the movie is referring to, as is the case with the Talking Plant thinguie), furthermore, things like the casino bouncers in New Reno, the Yakuza, the mere suggestion that New Reno serves as a tourist location, Father Tully the drunk priest (PLEASE...) as is the white church building in Modoc (this is the post-apocalyptic world, one would believe that much from previous times was forgotten - or even purposely forgotten - including religious beliefs or at least the rituals...in the first fallout you had the children of the cathedral and their religious belief or the followers of the apocalypse,...in fallout 2 you have...Father Tullly...the way i see it, what is bothering in all of this is the apparent lack of imagination to invent new sociological forms or settings for this rising new civilization growing in the wasteland and instead the vulgar use of all the above
Chancellor Kremlin
Mildly Dipped
Herr Mike said:
You are a member of the fanboy alliance and a traitor. Take him away!
patriot_41
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
I started Fallout with the second part. And the atmosphere was amazing. It's a huge place, with loads of encounters, and your NPCs really have character. The Arroyo thing was the best way to introduce someone new to an already existing world, and the temple of trials was an amazing tutorial. And the references have always been blatant, even in FO1. Dogmeat? The one-sleeved jacket? The Blade Runner gun? Oh noez, FO2 has, liek, 4 Clint Eastwood references! Whoop-de-do! Well, Clint rules. Nuff said.
Inconsistencies are totally OK if they are made by the CREATORS. It's their brainchild and I am still playing it, over 8 years after I first installed it. And I can tell you, that I'll swap Ian and Shady Sands with Cassidy and Vault City in terms of complexity and awesomeness (even in conception) any day. Yes, FO2 was easier. But it's an amazingly huge place and you really get the feel of a huge wasteland, not that confined feeling of FO1. And of course, the car . . . I love them both, but FO 2 has a better replay value.
Inconsistencies are totally OK if they are made by the CREATORS. It's their brainchild and I am still playing it, over 8 years after I first installed it. And I can tell you, that I'll swap Ian and Shady Sands with Cassidy and Vault City in terms of complexity and awesomeness (even in conception) any day. Yes, FO2 was easier. But it's an amazingly huge place and you really get the feel of a huge wasteland, not that confined feeling of FO1. And of course, the car . . . I love them both, but FO 2 has a better replay value.
"First, making the PC a "tribal". A big part of the appeal of Fallout was that you were an outsider, leaving the sterile vault for this untamed wasteland. That works a lot better than the other way around, which is the direction Fallout 2 took. Plus, it creates some gaps in logic within the framework of the game. For instance, you can tag small guns and dump all your points into it at the start, but how could you have that skill? "
Disagreed with the skill part, because it is just a game.
Agreed with the tribe part, they could of made something as good as Klamath.
"Talking Deathclaws. Were these needed at all? I suppose Fallout 1 alluded to it, but FO2 took it too far. "
I could care less about them.
"Wannamingos. Well, they're just a critter, so I don't have a huge problem with them. "
Aliens commonly tag along mutated stuff, like floaters, so I guess it could just be a nick name, and they were nicknamed "Wannamingos" because of the mine.
"New California Republic. It arguably makes sense in the game universe. Fragmented societies will eventually congeal to form regional governments. That said, the introduction of powerful political entities significantly hurts the "wasteland" feel. This is why I prefer the part of the game before you get embroiled in the political business between NCR, Vault City, Redding, and New Reno. It just brings too much civilization to the game."
I don't understand NCR, someone said they used a GECK in the game, but I don't think they did. If they didn't, I agree.
"San Francisco. If NCR is too civilized, San Fran is friggin' utopia. Sticks out like a sore thumb. The Hubologists just make very little sense to me, as do the chinatowners. Even as I was playing the game the first time, I was like "what?"
Disagreed, it seemed fine. They could of added a couple of other sections, that were just ruins and filled with gangs.
There is my opinion. kthxbai
Disagreed with the skill part, because it is just a game.
Agreed with the tribe part, they could of made something as good as Klamath.
"Talking Deathclaws. Were these needed at all? I suppose Fallout 1 alluded to it, but FO2 took it too far. "
I could care less about them.
"Wannamingos. Well, they're just a critter, so I don't have a huge problem with them. "
Aliens commonly tag along mutated stuff, like floaters, so I guess it could just be a nick name, and they were nicknamed "Wannamingos" because of the mine.
"New California Republic. It arguably makes sense in the game universe. Fragmented societies will eventually congeal to form regional governments. That said, the introduction of powerful political entities significantly hurts the "wasteland" feel. This is why I prefer the part of the game before you get embroiled in the political business between NCR, Vault City, Redding, and New Reno. It just brings too much civilization to the game."
I don't understand NCR, someone said they used a GECK in the game, but I don't think they did. If they didn't, I agree.
"San Francisco. If NCR is too civilized, San Fran is friggin' utopia. Sticks out like a sore thumb. The Hubologists just make very little sense to me, as do the chinatowners. Even as I was playing the game the first time, I was like "what?"
Disagreed, it seemed fine. They could of added a couple of other sections, that were just ruins and filled with gangs.
There is my opinion. kthxbai
Nodder
It Wandered In From the Wastes
This sort of slippery amusing and I wonder when it will end. "Hey guys, Fallout 1 has a clunky interface and the time restraint is stupid! GURPS is a bad system! Wasteland sucks! The entire Fallout series and universe is a poor rip-off of Mad Max and the games are worse than Arcanum!"
And so forth.
And so forth.
Since when is pointing out the flaws of previous games a slippery slope?