Fallout 2: Is "Swift Learner" useless?

[MBO]

I've gotten the Swift Learner perk before going to rescue Smiley on the Toxic Caves...

...I know you NORMALLY get 1000 XP for getting him out of there, and technically, with 1 level of "Swift Learner" you'd get 1050 XP. But I didn't.

Does this perk work at all?

My Fallout 2 is on version v1.02d, on Windows XP, "HUMONGOUS" installation type (if this helps any).

 

[Kan-Kerai]

Yes, its worthless. It does work (I think), but since Quest XP (like for rescuing Smiley) is scripted to show an exact amount, the display of it in the text box isn't going to be effected. However, in your character sheet it should display properly.

But even so, why would you want to take it? SL's effect is that for every 20 level ups, you gain an extra level. WOW, that's incredimazitastic! Seriously, take something else- anything is better than Swift Learner.

 

[MBO]

Well, I've played this game numerous times, I just wanted to check, because on my very first play-through I remember getting this perk and not seeing the effects.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[pennyliu123]

I think it works when you use a skill

 

[Humppa Papan Tappaa]

But even so, why would you want to take it? SL's effect is that for every 20 level ups, you gain an extra level. WOW, that's incredimazitastic!

Actually, its net effect is that you get to all the following levels, and thus the more interesting perks, a little bit earlier. The idea is that the 3rd level perk pick, where you get to choose from Toughness, Quick Pockets and not much else, isn't worth even remotely as much as the later picks, so you give away the miniscule bonus you'd otherwise get for getting the good stuff a couple minutes earlier.

SL is far from golden, and a Here And Now spared 'till level 5 seems to do its job better in FO2, but I'd still pick it long before Awareness (probably the most overrated trait in the game - it's a pure convenience perk that doesn't affect the game any more than FO1:s Friend Or Foe did).

 

[Kan-Kerai]

And MY point is that in Fallout 2, you don't get much further than Level 20. SL is +5% experience points. Hence, you gain an extra level for every 20. Seeing as you had to WAIT 3 levels to gain SL (which gives you an extra 1 (but takes until the end of the game to do it), it's not a fair trade. You'd rather take a perk which gives you a net loss in terms of level-ups over Sharpshooter?

Edit: Or not.

P.S. And since when is Toughness a "miniscule bonus"?

 

[Silencer]

And since when is Toughness a "miniscule bonus"?

Since you can easily get 90% Normal Damage resistance without it.

I'd go for Quick Pockets, Stonewall or Night Vision at L3. Potentially Thief, if that's your game.

 

[Humppa Papan Tappaa]

Idiot. Please, shut up about things you don't understand.

Oooh, an internet tough guy. I see I'll have to dumb this down a bit.

You're missing the point. Swift Learner is not a perk that gives you an extra level: that's Here And Now. Swift Learner is a gradual bonus: it gets you to any given level 5% earlier than normal. That's an important difference, since the worth of any level is inversely proportional to how late in the game you get it: level five in Klamath is awesome, level five in NCR is pure shit. To think of SL as a HAN that gets delayed for twenty levels is a fallacy. Rather, it's a perk that makes getting to level 5 cost only 9524 xp instead of 10k, level 6 14286 xp instead of 15k and so on, until the end of the game.

Seeing as you had to WAIT 3 levels to gain SL (which gives you an extra 1 (but takes until the end of the game to do it), it's not a fair trade.

You do not need to "wait" at all to get the SL: you get it for free, on the way to level nine, where you get your first really good perk. You do not SPEND levels or time to get it, you "spend" either Quick Pockets or Toughness, whichever you like less (because you're most probably going to get the other one at lev 6, because, again, you have few options because the early perks suck).

You see? To claim that SL would need to give you three levels to be any good is sheer idiocy. If it gave you three levels during the game, it would be broken right in half, easily the most powerful perk in the game. What it does now is ensure that you're always five percent closer to the next level, the next good perk, than you'd be without it, which isn't that bad a deal when, once more, the only thing you "pay" for it is your sucky level 3 perk. Got it?

 

[Kan-Kerai]

Since you can easily get 90% Normal Damage resistance without it.

I'd go for Quick Pockets, Stonewall or Night Vision at L3. Potentially Thief, if that's your game.

Well, I was more referring to the fact that in the end game, you're fighting against people with Vindicators and Gauss Rifles, which makes that extra 10% a worthwhile expenditure when you take armor piercing values into account... at least in my opinion. To each their own, I suppose- that's just the way I play the game.

[Edit: ...]

 

[Sander]

And Humppa Papan Tappaa... just... ugh. You're incredible.

No he's not, he's right. Swift Learner can be useful in the early game because it gets you to levels quicker. It's not about more levels, it's about the speed with which you gain those levels.
Moreover, you don't have that many choices at level 3, it's all about how you want to play the game. If you avoid night battles, Night Vision isn't that useful, Quick Pockets can be useful but that also depends on how you play the game. Don't call someone an idiot and pretend he doesn't know anything just because you wouldn't make that choice.

And your argument about 'having to wait three levels to get it' is nonsensical. Once you get those (two) levels, and you choose Swift Learner, you'll get to the next three levels quicker, getting you 5% earlier to the more useful perks at level 6 or 9.

 

[Kan-Kerai]

Ok, I don't know what I was smoking. You're both right- I somehow got it into my head that it gave you an extra 5% XP, not chopped the amount you needed to level up by 5%. Sorry about that.

I don't normally act like I did in this topic- I don't know what got into me.

 

[Per]

I somehow got it into my head that it gave you an extra 5% XP, not chopped the amount you needed to level up by 5%. Sorry about that.

You were correct. SL bumps your earned xp by 5%, which is equivalent to making each new level come 4.8% faster.

Personally I'm a convinced member of the "Awareness rocks, Swift Learner sucks" camp, as my guide shows.

 

[Kan-Kerai]

But wouldn't that mean that my interpretation of it getting you 5% more level-ups during the course of the game is correct?

Or am I missing something, here?

Either way I've put my foot in my mouth at least once during this topic.

 

[Per]

But wouldn't that mean that my interpretation of it getting you 5% more level-ups during the course of the game is correct?

No. You get approximately 5% more xp, which may or may not give you one or more extra levels. There is no such thing as a partial level.

 

[Kan-Kerai]

I don't mean partial level-ups. I mean that since you usually just manage to pass level 20 in F2, the +5% XP equates to an extra level-up. (20x105%=21)

That's where my idea that Swift Learner essentially functions like a delayed-action Here and Now! comes from. I just haven't done a very good job of explaining what I meant.

 

[Ratty Sr.]

It does mean you get level ups a wee bit sooner.

Personally I don't see much point to it. The experience bonus per level is trivial, nothing you can't get in one good random encounter. A few encounters in the San Francisco area will give you many times the experience you would get from Swift Learner in the course of the entire game. If you ask me, Night Vision is a much better investment, because it will give you a great edge in night-time combat, something you will really learn to appreciate if you frequently fight at night.

 

[Sander]

I don't mean partial level-ups. I mean that since you usually just manage to pass level 20 in F2, the +5% XP equates to an extra level-up. (20x105%=21)

That's where my idea that Swift Learner essentially functions like a delayed-action Here and Now! comes from. I just haven't done a very good job of explaining what I meant.

No, you've explained that well enough. It's just that you're missing the part where there's a game between the beginning and the end. Mainly because it contributes to the speed with which you gain levels as well, as a bit of mathematical reasoning should have told you.

Ratty: San Francisco? YOu know, I usually don't get to murdering those beasties until the end-game, where experience doesn't really matter anymore anyway. And Night Vision is only a good investment if you fight at night. You can usually avoid fighting at night, though, except for random encounters.
Again: it's a matter of preference, really.

 

[Silencer]

it contributes to the speed with which you gain levels as well, as a bit of mathematical reasoning should have told you.

Still, at an infinitesimal rate.

Alo, no wonder the Rat prefers night-time combat. At the same time, Sander, you can elect to fight at night to get an edge, if you have Night Vision, e.g. Slaver Guild.

 

[Sander]

Still, at an infinitesimal rate.

Alo, no wonder the Rat prefers night-time combat. At the same time, Sander, you can elect to fight at night to get an edge, if you have Night Vision, e.g. Slaver Guild.

Again: matter of preference.
I dislike fighting at night, it's annoying. Plus, the small experience edge isn't really great, but neither are any of the other skills you gain at level 3, and it wouldn't be the first time that couple of hitpoints I just gained or that wee bit more of skill with the gun saved me, really.

 

[Per]

At least any of Awareness, Quick Pockets, Thief or Night Vision lets you do something or enhances your character, unlike Swift Learner which is a pure meta-effect. There's fun and flavour value in that.