Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2: Weapons Redone v2.3

[Ravager69]

Thing is, I doubt any of the electronics in the PA\APA is used for any other purpose than movement. Well, maybe targeting (if there is such a feat in the armor, I haven't seen any reference to it), but that's it. EMP would hinder your movement if anything. I don't really think there's any justification for increased EMP damage to PAs, aside from game balance. This is basically a metal suit with nuclear fusion-powered hydraulics, coated with deflective materials, to improve laser and radiation resistance.

Though if you think it will improve the game somehow, I won't argue.

 

[Magnus]

I guess a strong EM pulse could disrupt the power flow in the fusion core for a possible FO3-esque car explosion, or just cause a total shutdown so the guy inside eventually starves to death, or perhaps cause enough induction in a wire to create an electric current that signals the helmet motors to rotate wildly, twisting off the head inside like a Chupa Chups wrapper...
Realistically-wise it probably wouldn't, but then again the whole one-man-portable-fusion-core power armor idea runs on plenty of Balonium and Unbelievium already. Obviously the clunky, old Power Armor is less reliant on high-tech (transistors pah!) and not as vulnerable. In any case, I figured this addition would improve the game by making those EMP grenades useful for other purposes than paperweights and hacky-sacks.

I'm testing the reduced ammo now, and have found it to be if not perfect, then at least adequate for giving the game a bit more of a challenge, and making melee/unarmed seem a bit more attractive. In addition to the reduced ammo availability comes the fact that it's now twice as heavy to carry around. Burst weapons have become somewhat of an extravaganza, but I think this might be good concidering how most burst weapons do more damage in F2WR. I'd rather not make ammo expensive, as this would just make it more profitable.

 

[Josan12]

An optional Ammo Rarity mod, which cuts all ammo clips in half (except a few), giving you a lot less ammo at merchants and making it heavier to carry around.

I like this. Overall i think it's something that would improve the challenge of the game and make H2H more attractive. I would certainly select this as an option in the installer. BTW - would it be possible to make an installer for F2WR?

I recently tried a variant like that, with ammo quantities cut to 1/4 of their normal values. I found that weapon capacities need to be reduced as well. Otherwise you still find just as much ammo on defeated enemies, which is often enough to go through the entire game on. It might be good to also reduce burst counts, as they'd be really expensive and require reloading almost every turn.

This is a good point, however. Whaddya think?

Critters in Advanced Power Armor (including you) will be vulnerable to EMP grenades, taking around 40-50% of the damage that a robot would. Power Armored critters will not, or at least not as much.

Good thinking. I like this. I do agree it would be better if you could 'damage' the AG of the wearer instead of damage their HP, but causing HP damage is a worthy change, IMO. Good idea.

The AP cost of the special Unarmed attacks will be heavily reduced, thanks to the assembly wiz crazycc.

All i can say is: awesome

Also - Magnus: did you see my mini-mod that makes the sawn-off shotgun a bit more relevant? I thought you might be interested in including it in F2WR:

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49510&highlight=sawnoff

 

[Ravager69]

Hey Magnus, I was wondering about something - don't you think most of the MK II or special armors are pretty much obsolete?

Think about it - how often did you use Combat Leather Jacket, Combat Armor MKII (aside from obtaining implants), Bortherhood Armor or Tesla Armor? Let me know if you see any way or sense in changing this, aside from the changes provided in you mod. If so, I'll try to shower you with my own ideas for solving this issue.

 

[Glovz]

@Ravager69 and Magnus
Take a look at what I did with armor values in my mod and see what you think

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pF_ntc685Cx5H9MydiVvcLg&hl=en


@Magnus
Feel free to steal any ideas

 

[x'il]

(...) how often did you use Combat Leather Jacket, Combat Armor MKII (aside from obtaining implants), Bortherhood Armor or Tesla Armor? Let me know if you see any way or sense in changing this, aside from the changes provided in you mod. If so, I'll try to shower you with my own ideas for solving this issue.

I know you didn't ask me, but if i may offer my opinion, i would say that the main problem i see with those armors in unmmoded FO2 is their location in the game. Tesla Armor should be available around the same time you first obtain combat armor (around the NCR i guess), Brotherhood Armor should be obtainable around the same area (before the PA), Combat Leather Jacket a little earlier (at the "begining" of Modoc, instead of later) and the Leather Armor MKII (although well placed, IMO) should be a little more common at merchants and such.

 

[Josan12]

I know you didn't ask me, but if i may offer my opinion, i would say that the main problem i see with those armors in unmmoded FO2 is their location in the game. Tesla Armor should be available around the same time you first obtain combat armor (around the NCR i guess), Brotherhood Armor should be obtainable around the same area (before the PA), Combat Leather Jacket a little earlier (at the "begining" of Modoc, instead of later) and the Leather Armor MKII (although well placed, IMO) should be a little more common at merchants and such.

I agree.

 

[Kanhef]

<s>Maybe I borked my installation somehow, but I'm finding gang 'tough thugs' using Mausers loaded with 14mm ammo.</s> Edit: yeah, somehow copied 14mm ammo to proto 360. Also, the 'ncwriply' script needs to be updated. It is used by the Wright children playing outside, and if you give them a gun it checks your inventory in the order: 10mm pistol, 9mm mauser, .44 magnum, desert eagle, 14mm pistol, .223 pistol. Since the mauser and .223 have been swapped, they often take the best gun. All that's needed is to change the order of sections under "#define get_obj_pistol(x)" and recompile it.

 

[Dravean]

Since the mauser and .223 have been swapped, they often take the best gun.

I believe in the newest version (1.9), Magnus decided not to swap guns anymore, so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Ravager69]

I know you didn't ask me, but if i may offer my opinion, i would say that the main problem i see with those armors in unmmoded FO2 is their location in the game. Tesla Armor should be available around the same time you first obtain combat armor (around the NCR i guess), Brotherhood Armor should be obtainable around the same area (before the PA), Combat Leather Jacket a little earlier (at the "begining" of Modoc, instead of later) and the Leather Armor MKII (although well placed, IMO) should be a little more common at merchants and such.

Well, that is one of my observations as well. Though an experienced FO2 player would still ignore these armors and go for the better stuff directly. I was thinking about making common armor more scarce or something, like you can't go to a place A (ex. Sierra Army Depot) and find Combat Armor lying in the footlocker on the first level, without any effort on your side.

On the other hand, you can make a mod that would allow you to *create* these armors using basic model, with some skills and materials. Or a merchant that would trade for them, like Leather Armor MKI and a 10mm Pistol for Leather Armor MKII or something like that.

 

[x'il]

(...) Though an experienced FO2 player would still ignore these armors and go for the better stuff directly (...)

I'm not sure i understand what you're saying there; mkII armors are better than normal armors (at least in unmmodded, vanilla FO2, don't know how it is anywhere else...). The player would not ignore those armors if they were well placed in the game, so as to have more time to wear them until the next armor "upgrade". If, let's say, the Tesla Armor were to be placed in vault 15, on the last level, right behind the raider leader (so you would have to get past him in order to get to it), it would be usable in the game ahead not just as a metal amor but also as what it actually is: an armor for a particular damage type. Same for the Brotherhood Armor, if it could be obtain, let's say, in the NCR. The only armor that i really see as superfluos is the APA mkII obtainable at the Oil rig.

If you're refering to that game-killing cheat of going to Navarro and getting the APA at the beginning, i don't think an experienced FO2 player would do that - what would be the point? - and i think it has been prevented in some of the big mods out there.

I was thinking about making common armor more scarce or something, like you can't go to a place A (ex. Sierra Army Depot) and find Combat Armor lying in the footlocker on the first level, without any effort on your side.

I disagree; in order to enter the Sierra Army Depot you have to get past the automated defenses, that requires the player to have gained some levels to have an appropiate amount of HP to resist the damage dealt by the turrets and/or have a respectable level of skill in some weapon type in order to cause the turrets the necessary damage, so it is not effortless. And in case there's some "cheaty" way of doing it, that would just be the same as my above comment regarding the APA.

Besides, it makes perfect sense to find the CA there (hell, it's an untouched, un-looted, army depot, in all sense there should be dozens of combat armor sets in there... it should be, as it is, to find CA there much more easily than somewhere else in the wasteland).

To increase the challenge, the "effort", of getting inside the SAD you could make the turrets much more lethal or increase the number of turrets there...

(...) On the other hand, you can make a mod that would allow you to *create* these armors using basic model, with some skills and materials (...)

I'm not sure, as i have never played with it, but isn't that what the Mr. Fixit mod does? gives the player item crafting capabilities depending of skill levels and other requirements?

 

[Ravager69]

I'm not sure i understand what you're saying there; mkII armors are better than normal armors (at least in unmmodded, vanilla FO2, don't know how it is anywhere else...). The player would not ignore those armors if they were well placed in the game, so as to have more time to wear them until the next armor "upgrade". If, let's say, the Tesla Armor were to be placed in vault 15, on the last level, right behind the raider leader (so you would have to get past him in order to get to it), it would be usable in the game ahead not just as a metal amor but also as what it actually is: an armor for a particular damage type. Same for the Brotherhood Armor, if it could be obtain, let's say, in the NCR. The only armor that i really see as superfluos is the APA mkII obtainable at the Oil rig.

Alright, it seems I kinda lost the point here Moving on:

If you're refering to that game-killing cheat of going to Navarro and getting the APA at the beginning, i don't think an experienced FO2 player would do that - what would be the point? - and i think it has been prevented in some of the big mods out there.

Well, I wasn't talking about it specifically, but yes, it's ridiculous how easy you can get it. My in-bred confusion and mistakes I make aside, I mean that finding armor should be difficult, else you'll end up with loads of obsolete armor, as it is now.

I disagree; in order to enter the Sierra Army Depot you have to get past the automated defenses, that requires the player to have gained some levels to have an appropiate amount of HP to resist the damage dealt by the turrets and/or have a respectable level of skill in some weapon type in order to cause the turrets the necessary damage, so it is not effortless. And in case there's some "cheaty" way of doing it, that would just be the same as my above comment regarding the APA.

Besides, it makes perfect sense to find the CA there (hell, it's an untouched, un-looted, army depot, in all sense there should be dozens of combat armor sets in there... it should be, as it is, to find CA there much more easily than somewhere else in the wasteland).

OK, you got a point. It's just that I've played F2 a long time ago last time and I couldn't come up with a better example ATM of writing that post. My point remains - armors shouldn't just lay around in unlocked lockers with easy access to them. So if we\someone was to place those MKII\special armors around the game somewhere, it should require at least some effort the get them.

I'm not sure, as i have never played with it, but isn't that what the Mr. Fixit mod does? gives the player item crafting capabilities depending of skill levels and other requirements?

I'm not talking about full-fledged crafting, but something like you could do with PA in the Hubologists' place. You have a leather armor, you go to Balthas and by some hardening process you make a Leather Armor MKII. Raw materials should be enough for one or two sets of armor, not more. Something that'd allow you to upgrade armor and would make sense setting-wise, no magical creating everything out of a wrench and some sand, if you have science\repair > 150.

Anyhow, the main problem is Tesla Armor. I don't really know what to do with it, since it's useless early and too weak to be put later on in game. Until San Fran, there are like 2 groups of people with energy weapons - Salvatores and remains of Master's Army. Perhaps more, but that certainly not much. So basically it'd be usefull only against the Salvatores and you'd get your ass kicked wearing it against later energy weapons-wielding enemies. I can't say this is 100% accurate, since I haven't played for a long time, but these are my observations so far.

As for CA MKII and Brotherhood Armor, there's less problems with these ones. There's a BoS bunker in NCR, right? It'd be enough to make the door guard give you a quest, for which the armor would be a reward. CA MKII could be also available to product or receive as a reward in a quest.

 

[Magnus]

First of all, I want to say that I like these ideas, but they do require modifying the in-game maps, something I won't be doing in this mod. I'd rather put Metal Armor Mk. II, Combat Leather Jacket and Leather Armor Mk. II on more enemies, to increase the game difficulty a little, but editing critter protos is always a right p.i.t.a. In any case my NPCs always inherit the armor I ain't using - I know Vic's loudmouthed arse has been saved more than once on account of being clad in shiny Metal Armor Mk. II rather than the standard variant.

I usually wear Combat Armor Mk. II for ages in my traditional play style, starting right after delivering the GECK and going to the Toxic Caves, because that's when I start doing the Redding and New Reno quests. When I'm done with those, I go wipe out the raiders, then do the remaining quests in NCR, and then it's Base time. So I'd be sad to see that armor put somewhere else.
Also, I've found the Brotherhood armor to be useful for roleplaying Ninja characters who concider power armor dishonourable, unstealthy and only for the weak of body!
Lastly, after I've beaten the game and earned my place in the Hall of the Legends of the Times of Old, I always abandon all my NPCs except Dogmeat, don the Combat Leather Jacket, pull out my Sawed-Off Shotgun and Spiked Knuckles - and go cruise the Wasteland.

I've got a question: According to Per's guide there are some critters in the Enclave who are wearing regular Power Armor, yet all the Enclave critter protos I've seen have Advanced PA stats. I'd like to give the Power Armored critters Power Armor stats, but I don't know which proto they are using. Could someone tell me how to figure this out, or better yet, tell me which one it is?

 

[Kanhef]

Protos 189 (bounty hunter leader) and 190 (bounty hunter) are the only critters that appear to wear regular power armor. I'm not sure where it overrides the name in pro_crit.msg . The leaders actually have APA stats.

Protos 291 and 292 are the other Enclave guards; they have APA Mk2 stats. The patrollers around Navarro are protos 250 (male, APA Mk2) and 251 (female, APA).


Unrelatedly, this changes the balance of endgame skills. Consider average damage against APA:

Normal:
rocket AP             40
explosive rocket      28.5
gauss rifle           26.5
pulse rifle           26
bozar                 9.5 * 15
vindicator minigun    5 * 25

F2WR 1.9:
rocket AP             44.5
bozar                 37
pulse rifle           26
plasma grenade        26
gauss rifle           23.5	
vindicator minigun    4.5 * 25

Big Guns and Throwing are much more viable, looking at the bozar and plasma grenades. Energy Weapons is a bit better, especially in a 'scarce ammo' variant, since MFCs are much more common than 2mm ammo.

 

[Ravager69]

There are critters wearing standard PAs when you are escaping the Rig, after activating the self-destruction system. You're going through a barrack of sorts and they are there. I haven't checked out Enclave maps or critters in-detail, so I can't say more.

Also, I haven't say that Metal Armor MKII is obsolete, I was refering to Leather Jacket, Leather Armor and Combat Armor MKII.

 

[Magnus]

14mmAP proto:
It's not your fault, the proto file (00000360) in the "All" folder is bugged, the one in the "Ammo" folder is the correct one, so you should just use that instead.

It's all fixed in v2.0, which now also has a justified, bonafide, electrified, fully automatic installer that does all the work for you! All that's left to do in v2.0 is to knock around the .exe in ollydbg to reduce the unarmed AP costs, and it's golden. I'm still not sure whether I should with-hold the mod until Killap releases his... depends on how soon he's going to do it.

EDIT:
OK, done with the unarmed attacks. The AP cost is 4 for the special punches except Jab which is 3, and 5 for the special kicks, does this sound good?

 

[Ravager69]

If it's ready, why not? Killap may include it anytime into his mod and this amount of fixes is something quite indespensable. Also, I doubt Killap will make headway with the mod anytime soon.

 

[Magnus]

All right, you convinced me. I wasn't thinking that killap would include my mod, but as soon as his new RP comes out I'm going to have to make a new version of F2WR to make it compatible, which is why I contemplated waiting for it. But hey, I'm an impatient kind of guy, so...


Changes in v2.0:

The mod now has its own superfly, massively bionic, two-fisted, double fine automatic installer! Extract the F2WR zip archive to your Fallout 2 folder and let Install.bat do the rest!

The AP cost for the special unarmed attacks has been reduced to 4 for punches (except Jab) and 5 for kicks.

Flamer damage reduced from 60-90 to 50-90.

Bozar range upped from 32 to 36.

Critters in Advanced Power Armor (including you) are now vulnerable to EMP grenades, taking 45% of the damage that a robot would. Regular Power Armor only takes 25%, might as well use a regular grenade.

10mm and 5mm JHP have a DR modifier of +47 down from +48.

Metal Armor has a normal DR/DT of 35/3 instead of 30/4. This means AP and FMJ ammo works better against it than JHP, check the spreadsheet.

Throwing Knives now have Penetrate instead of a 20% bonus to hit. They do 8-15 damage up from 7-11, since they're not affected by melee damage and perks.

(4ab) The Solar Scorcher no longer has a 20% bonus to hit.

The Combat Shotgun, H&K CAWS and Pancor Jackhammer now fire 4, 6 and 8 shots per burst, up from 3, 5, 5.

The HK CAWS and Pancor Jackhammer now carry 12 and 16 shots, up from 10.

The HK CAWS now does 16-27 damage and weighs 15 pounds, down from 20 (bug).

Shotguns and Sawed-offs now cost 750, down from 850.

Crowbars and Wrenches are throwable, hooraah. They have a max range of 15.

The HK P90c does 9-14 damage down from 10-15 and costs 2500 up from 2250.

The HK G11 and G11E cost 3000 and 4000, down from 3650 and 4300.

Spears do 10-18 damage up from 8-18. Sledgehammers do 14-16 up from 13-16.

Included optional ammo rarity.
This folder is not included in the "All"-installation. What it does is cut all ammo stacks in half (rounded down to the nearest whole number). As a result of this, ammo is now twice as heavy, twice as pricey and half as abundant at shopkeepers. The amount of ammo available to buy or get given in dialogue will be reduced, but ammo you find in crates, lockers and weapons will NOT, so be on the lookout for those pre-war stashes. Exceptions to the cut-in-half-rule are as following:
MFC comes in packs of 35 instead of 50.
SEC comes in packs of 25 instead of 40.
7.62mm comes in clips of 20 instead of 35.
Flamethrower Fuel comes in clips of 6 instead of 10.

Moved a couple of misplaced protos to the correct folder.

Corrected bad critter protos for Killap's RP.


Please tell me how the modified unarmed .exe works for you! If you choose to install it, the installer will automatically make a backup in case something fuggs up.

 

[x'il]

Sounds good, specially the AP reduction for unarmed, the throwable crowbars and wrenches, the optional ammo rarity and the superfly installer... but, does this:

Flamer damage reduced from 60-90 to 50-90.

and this:

Flamethrower Fuel comes in clips of 6 instead of 10.

make the flamer less usable?, less worthy of serious usage?

(i reeeally like the flamer... i'm even making a custom flamer animation - check the avatar - which will have a longer attack sequence - 1 to 2 seconds -)

 

[Ravager69]

make the flamer less usable?, less worthy of serious usage?

(i reeeally like the flamer... i'm even making a custom flamer animation - check the avatar - which will have a longer attack sequence - 1 to 2 seconds -)

Uh...no offense dude, but this looks like the char is giving himself a bit...smacking the monkey, you know.

Anyway, I am off to try WR 2.0. Keep them going, Magnus