Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2: Weapons Redone v2.3

[Magnus]

If you delete the 350.pro in my mod, you will be deleting the Light Support Weapon, as I've swapped those weapons. File 355.pro is now the Bozar. But if you delete only that one, the game will conjure up some big, nasty bugs with both LSWs and Bozars. If you really must have the old Bozar, you should delete both 350.pro and 355.pro.

I agree with you that the old Bozar is one fine shooter, but from a gameplay point of view, there's really no need for yet another big machinegun. What the game does need, though, is a step on the Sniper ladder between the Sniper Rifle and Gauss Rifle, and the new Bozar is exactly that. Also, the Bozar being a machinegun makes about as much sense as the Rocket Launcher firing a combination of blue lasers and hard-boiled eggs, as the Bozar is obviously a gigantic sniper.

Burst shotguns will automatically give the triple-shot burst sound, which is bad when the thing only spits out 2 shells. Then again, the CAWS guzzles 10, and still has the same crappy sound. I have thought about giving the basic shotguns an AP cost of 4, but... naaah. They're OK as they are.

The Mauser is actually from Mad Max 1, used by one of the Toe-Cutter's goons on the beach, where it is also quite powerful. I believe Humungus' fearsome shooter is a scoped Magnum of some sort. Also, the Mauser cannot be reloaded with single cartridges, you must use one full clip at a time. Sorry for being extremely nerdy.

Remember to take a look at the almighty Spreadsheet link in the first post of this page. Compare the Mauser's damage to an unarmored target with the 10mm Pistol's damage when it is loaded with JHP.

Advanced Power Armor has Normal resistance/dt of 65/13. The Mk.II has a resistance/DT of 70/14. Also, Brotherhood armor has a Laser resistance/dt of 40/6, while the Tesla Armor has values of 90/3.

Looking at stuff here, it seems I have yet a bit of tweaking and tinkering to do before I release v1.8.

 

[Ixyroth]

Great work Magnus.

I've made a few changes to your 1.7 weapons redone for my own use and it's worked out quite well.

I made the Bozar a .50 caliber scoped sniper rifle with a single shot AP cost of 6, range of 50 and damage of 60-80. 9mm has been replaced with .50 cal AP which has a -60 DR mod and 1/1 dmg mod.

I converted the Mauser to 14mm and turned 9mm ball into 14mm JHP. 9mm was useless anyway.

This required editing PROTO.msg and pro_item.msg.

2mm EC has a DR mod of -60 and a dmg mod of 1/1. It's a needle-like round which should have huge penetration but do less tissue damage.

Shotgun shells have a DR mod of 35 and a dmg mod of 3/1, which does massive damage against soft targets but is much less effective against armor. 00 buck does nothing to advanced power armor.

I reduced the AC values on all armors, especially the power armors. Wearing a huge set of shiny power armor should not make you *that* much harder to hit, if at all. The only case you can make are for deflections. The same goes for other armor... other than camouflage and a few deflections, why should wearing armor make you any harder to hit? You're a bigger target with reduced maneuverability. AC should depend more on agility and skill than armor. This isn't D&D. Armor is about DT and DR.

I generally re-adjusted the ammos so that the rifle rounds, 7.62mm and .223 (5.56mm) have DR mods around -30, give or take.

7.62mm is a big, hard-hitting round, 150-180 grain moving at 2400-2600 ft/sec. .223 is a tiny round which moves extremely fast - 50 grain at 3500 ft/sec. 7.62mm should do more damage than .223 by a fair amount.

If your interested, I can give you the full list of changes and you can take what you like.

 

[Chesty La'Rou]

7.62mm is a big, hard-hitting round, 150-180 grain moving at 2400-2600 ft/sec. .223 is a tiny round which moves extremely fast - 50 grain at 3500 ft/sec. 7.62mm should do more damage than .223 by a fair amount.

.223 actually does MORE damage than a 7.62mm in real life. This is due to the tumbling effect it has on impact. While the 7.62 may have more kinetic energy behind it the .223 rips up your insides like no one business when compared to the 7.62mm

 

[Josan12]

.223 actually does MORE damage than a 7.62mm in real life. This is due to the tumbling effect it has on impact. While the 7.62 may have more kinetic energy behind it the .223 rips up your insides like no one business when compared to the 7.62mm

While i appreciate this extensive knowledge of real-world guns, I don't quite understand how these kinds of arguments support changes to the game: i mean, we are talking about a world where people regularly survive getting shot in the head with a shotgun, and people can carry 10 minigun's (and ammo) around with them. I don't think the 'because it's realistic' argument holds much water when it comes to FO modding. Because it's a game i think game balance is by far the most important priority.

 

[alexlocke]

Hi,Magnus!Can you tell me which xxxxxxx.pro in items is the .223 pistol`s file?I found its firing sound is very different from before..

 

[Ixyroth]

7.62mm is a big, hard-hitting round, 150-180 grain moving at 2400-2600 ft/sec. .223 is a tiny round which moves extremely fast - 50 grain at 3500 ft/sec. 7.62mm should do more damage than .223 by a fair amount.

.223 actually does MORE damage than a 7.62mm in real life. This is due to the tumbling effect it has on impact. While the 7.62 may have more kinetic energy behind it the .223 rips up your insides like no one business when compared to the 7.62mm

As far as hunting goes, .240 is the bare minimum against deer. Most hunters use .30 caliber rounds - 30-06, .308, etc. Big game hunters use large calibers like .458 against cape buffalo. .223 is a varmint round - rabbits and coyotes.

If it has that much breakup against soft targets, then it won't fare well against armor. There are quite a few ballistics demonstrations of .223 vs 7.62mm around, and 7.62mm punches deeper and makes a much bigger disturbance in the material, at least against hard targets like concrete and steel plating.

 

[Magnus]

Hi,Magnus!Can you tell me which xxxxxxx.pro in items is the .223 pistol`s file?I found its firing sound is very different from before..

The firing sound is different because you have installed either Killap's RP or the additional sound files bundled with my mod. Most likely the RP is the culprit. I actually like the sounds, they're just way too loud in my opinion. If you want them reverted to the original "plaff" sound, you need to delete WAE1XXX1.ACM, WAE1XXX2.ACM and SNDLST.LST, three files that are found in the Fallout2/Data/sound/sfx folder. Monkeying around with the .pro files is not going to help.

To all gun nuts here: It's a game. I live in a country where the police don't carry guns, in fact I've never seen one in my life. This makes me extremely noobish when it comes to guns, but it also enables me to fully enjoy Fallout 2 without thinking "Hey, this isn't a good game, because these guns aren't behaving right." I might concider giving 7.62mm slightly better armor piercing, but it's not really broken at the moment, and that means I'm not extremely geared towards messing with it.

To the guy who made his own changes: Great work, but I'm not going to use it. I love it when people download others' mods and then re-mod the crap out of them, because there's no way an author can please everybody. Keep it up!

 

[DForge]

whats wrong with emp grenades? They did 0 damage to security bots in SAD.. twice :X

 

[Glovz]

Its not the grenades, it's the .pro files for the robots. Some robots will not take EMP damage due to extremely high resistance values in their .pro files. I bug in my opinion; not with or caused by this mod, but from the orginal developers.

 

[Chesty La'Rou]

7.62mm is a big, hard-hitting round, 150-180 grain moving at 2400-2600 ft/sec. .223 is a tiny round which moves extremely fast - 50 grain at 3500 ft/sec. 7.62mm should do more damage than .223 by a fair amount.

.223 actually does MORE damage than a 7.62mm in real life. This is due to the tumbling effect it has on impact. While the 7.62 may have more kinetic energy behind it the .223 rips up your insides like no one business when compared to the 7.62mm

As far as hunting goes, .240 is the bare minimum against deer. Most hunters use .30 caliber rounds - 30-06, .308, etc. Big game hunters use large calibers like .458 against cape buffalo. .223 is a varmint round - rabbits and coyotes.

If it has that much breakup against soft targets, then it won't fare well against armor. There are quite a few ballistics demonstrations of .223 vs 7.62mm around, and 7.62mm punches deeper and makes a much bigger disturbance in the material, at least against hard targets like concrete and steel plating.

Yeah, I meant that the .223 would do better against a target with soft armored targets and unarmored targets. The 7.62 has WAY more penetration power though as it will go through most types of kevlar.

I do realize its a game and real life physics don't normally apply, but I still think that the .223 vs targets with no armor or leather armor should do a little extra damage.

(Maybe have the .233 do +1 - +2 bonus dmg vs soft armored and non armored targets, but have the 7.62 have a greater chance to knockdown against those same targets to simulate the .223's destructive power and the 7.62's penetrating power?)


Sorry I missed this the first time I read it the post.....

To all gun nuts here: It's a game. I live in a country where the police don't carry guns, in fact I've never seen one in my life. This makes me extremely noobish when it comes to guns, but it also enables me to fully enjoy Fallout 2 without thinking "Hey, this isn't a good game, because these guns aren't behaving right." I might concider giving 7.62mm slightly better armor piercing, but it's not really broken at the moment, and that means I'm not extremely geared towards messing with it.

That's kind of what I was getting at. I'm glad you atleast agree about that just for the continuity of the game. Otherwise the 7.62 is pretty much just the same as the .223 (in the game atleast).

 

[DForge]

Its not the grenades, it's the .pro files for the robots. Some robots will not take EMP damage due to extremely high resistance values in their .pro files. I bug in my opinion; not with or caused by this mod, but from the orginal developers.

quite weird, I always killed those smaller sentry bots (those with guns) with emp grenades to get the engine for skynet. Since this is the first time I play with Killap's RP and Weapons Redone, I think one of those must have caused this.

 

[killap]

quite weird, I always killed those smaller sentry bots (those with guns) with emp grenades to get the engine for skynet. Since this is the first time I play with Killap's RP and Weapons Redone, I think one of those must have caused this.

I hope you disabled the ammo mod (or did not initially install it) if you are using the Weapons Redone mod.

 

[DForge]

hm - it may be that I mixed those two :O

Gotta reinstall fallout 2 & the mods, paying extra attention this time, to be certain.

 

[Robert Czarwolski]

Well... About the 2 guns for 9mm, it could be added a "9mm SMG", a weapon like a mp40, by example. Also, why the Improved Flamer do the same damage as the Flamer? And it would be cool to see more 45 weaponary (Colt M1911A1 and a 45 revolver by example).
And before i forget, the Bozar should have a 70 rng, and work with FO2EngineTweaks to higher up the scrolling limit...
The Megamod has three frms of aks (47,74,74U), i could ask them if i could use it, make the CAR/CLAR/CLCAR and send you. I am reinstalling fallout 2 now so I will have a "test drive" on your mod.

 

[Blackened]

I am not sure that the values are quite balanced.

Reason: The Energy Weapons are nearly as strong as the Small Guns, but you get them from New Reno. So Small Guns are obviously overpowered. Also, I think that Big Guns are too weak like Energy weapons, but I see that you changed them a lot, so I am not sure about this one.

 

[Magnus]

This mod is henceforth discontinued. Thanks to all of you supporters and downloaders out there. Anyone who's got the stones to keep fiddling with it are encouraged to do so. And sorry for abandoning it like this, but hey, life goes on.

Yours sincerely,
Magnus

 

[Azmodael]

Tc, tc, just when I find this great piece of work you abandon it

However I found some of the AP ammo overbuffed. I am currently level 12 with the improved metal armor and whenever I find some assault rifle guy (one is enough...) with AP ammo he kills me with a single burst. The SMG AP dudes either kill me or leave me with about 5-10 hp. On the other hand Cassidy effectiveness at killing stuff has dropped dramatically, he prefers his H&K rifle to the assault rifle and does mediocre damage with it. Takes him 3 bursts or 5-6 single shots to kill guys with metal armor.

I am willing to try Gloves mode as well, my question is can I use your armor and granade changes with his mode?

 

[Glovz]

I am willing to try Gloves mode as well, my question is can I use your armor and granade changes with his mode?

If you know the correct files to replace in my mod then yes. But I do not know what that will do to the sense of balance I have tried to create with my mod.

 

[FruitLoop]

*****

.223 is a varmint round - rabbits and coyotes.

Sorry, I only just saw this and couldn't stop laughing. .223 is 5.56mm, the same calibre as most NATO small arms - hardly a 'varmint' round lol.

7.62 certainly has more power, but it's also a more solid round less prone to breakup or deformation than 5.56. This was proven in the Vietnam war where the solid 7.62 round of the AK-47 often punched, intact, through trees that easily stopped the 5.56 M16 rounds. Against soft tissue the 7.62 was overpowered since it would just pass straight through a body at short-medium ranges unless it struck bone (where it would more often than not simply shatter the bone). 5.56 rounds often would begin to tumble upon entering a body and fragment or even ricochet off of bone, the deformed chunk of metal causing considerable cavitation and internal damage.

Personally, I'd prefer to be hit by a 7.62 round at close range (more penetration and greater chance of a 'clean' wound), and a 5.56 round at very long range (the 7.62 round maintains it's energy far better, and at longer ranges would be more prone to tumbling internally rather than punching through a body). If this was to be translated to a game like FO2, then IMO 5.56 would likely be similar to the 5mm JHP ammo (high base damage to soft targets, low penetration vs armour), and 7.62 probably more like the .223 in-game version (good damage to all targets, good penetration).

To be honest, the default 2mm gauss and 14mm AP rounds have always been personally confusing. 2mm gauss shouldn't really have that good an armour penetration since kinetic energy=velocity+mass: while a 2mm round may have velocity on it's side it undoubtedly wouldn't have the mass to penetrate armour. Unless it's about 6 inches long and made of a material denser than uranium that is... Then again, 14mm has the mass but would have a low velocity for a pistol round (heck, the amount of energy required to propel a 14mm round from a pistol with lethal force would cause severe wrist injury if not breakage lol)

Magnus' reinterpretation of 14mm as a sniper round for the Bozar is, IMHO, genius. 14mm is a larger round than .50 cal (12.7mm), so makes much more sense - and in practice is excellent against both armoured and unarmoured targets as a supersized round should be. Hats off, I'd never have thought of doing this!

Oh, btw - the items.lst file is slightly different (1 weapon .pro missing) from the one in Killap's Restoration mod - if this mod is installed along with Killap's (highly recommended to), don't overwrite the one installed in the Restoration mod.

EDIT
Forgot to say that I also love the change to the LSW - single-shot mode makes all the difference. Since the SA-80 is one of my favourite real-world rifles, it great to finally have a derivative that is useful in FO2 - thanks!

 

[quetzilla]

New to using fallout mods -- how do I uninstall something like this? (for comparing how weapons work with and without it) Do I just delete the files it added? the problem is that I am using killaps RP too, so I don't quite know exactly what to delete and what not to delete.