Fallout 3 at LGC: IGN

We tried many ways of doing melee with VATS, and having messed a lot with "missing" in melee, it just felt really bad. So once we changed VATS melee to "always hit", assuming you are in range, the body part selection became a bit unbalancing, so now it's a "whole body attack", but you still do end up hitting a specific body part when you swing, but it's based on what you actually contact with, as opposed to what you aim at. This avoids the "always punch in the head" problem, whereas with guns, we can balance out certain body parts with hit percentages, like the head.
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To me at least, this is one of the best examples of how they fucked up by going RT. They desperately wanted to keep something that would slightly remind FO enthusiasts of TB combat, yet they obviously didn't think it through from the start. Of course V.A.T.S. would at some point unbalance the combat. But instead of getting rid of that contraption completely, they "solve" it by doing this? It's laughable. It's a halfbaked solution. If this is mentioned in the manual (that V.A.T.S. is extremely limited for melee/HtH), no one is going to go melee/HtH on their first run-through because they might miss out on the called shots.

Tactics/Arcanum fucked up combat as well by trying to bring both RT and TB to the player. You'd expect people to learn from other people's mistakes, no? The saddest part is that V.A.T.S. isn't even TB. Amateurs.
 
V.A.T.S. is pause-based combat IMO. Because from what I have seen from the videos, you just pause the game during the combat, choose which part you want to hit, and then turn off the pause (like pressing play on the remote controller).

They didn't show any turns though. They should have if V.AT.S. is able to do that.
 
V.A.T.S. isn't pause based. It works very similarly to many other systems. It pauses the games while you select attacks on various body parts and enemies, que them up based on your total action points and the bam!

I will put it to you another way. You engage a group of raiders. You go into V.A.T.S. you target the front raider in the chest twice and the 3rd and 4th raider each in the head.

You exit V.A.T.S. and do your 4 attacks which based off of your skills and stats and who knows what else, hit, miss, or even disembowel.

Very similar to most RPGs today except it isn't round based, its AP based.

Oh, and while you are attacking, the enemies are attacking back, so the game doesn't just stop during the cinematics.

Is this the preview where the guy gets killed by the trader and his dog when he attacks them. I loved reading that.
 
What other games have this kind of queued attacks via a paused game?

As you said 4 aimed attacks with one VATS pause, sounds overpowered to me. There was a reviewer who said it recharged fast, so every combat you'll pause and use VATS to exterminate everybody.

In higher levels then with skills and perks you will never miss, head shots will abound in my opinion taking the challenge of later game fights.
 
Texas Renegade said:
Oh, and while you are attacking, the enemies are attacking back, so the game doesn't just stop during the cinematics.
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But they scaled down damage inflicted by enemies during bullet time because it wasn't fun to die during a VATS cutscene.
 
I think people are making too much of VATS being overpowered, tweaking the parameters to make it balanced is probably what they're working on right now and by the time we get it it's just as likely that they'll have overreacted and made it underpowered. my bigger concern is that the slo-mo shots and especially death scenes will get annoying.
 
Per said:
Texas Renegade said:
Oh, and while you are attacking, the enemies are attacking back, so the game doesn't just stop during the cinematics.
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But they scaled down damage inflicted by enemies during bullet time because it wasn't fun to die during a VATS cutscene.
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They also made the enemy(ies?) that the player is attacking unable to do anything (such as attack back) and all other enemies act slower than the player does (meaning you shoot five times, they shoot once type of thing).
 
JESUS said:
There was a reviewer who said it recharged fast, so every combat you'll pause and use VATS to exterminate everybody.
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The early demo builds at other conferences were setup for almost god-like characters (basically had cheats running). It's been said that VATS recharges much slower for regular gameplay, and people who've played it at later conferences/demos have said that the game felt more challenging.

Again, it's all subjective based on short play-throughs, so we'll have to see what the final retail build plays like.
 
Texas Renegade said:
V.A.T.S. isn't pause based. It works very similarly to many other systems. It pauses the games while you select attacks on various body parts and enemies, que them up based on your total action points and the bam!
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Uh, I think it is paused. Turn based really means you take your turn and they take their turn. The way F3 does it is as soon as you un-pause the game, everything devolved into the same old real time firefight. Last I checked there wasn't a system in place where the game calculated your speed score compared to the enemy speed score and adjusted accordingly how often the pc or enemy gets to attack.

If anything the pause is there for people who arn't good at making decision while getting fire at from multiple angles.
 
Phancypants said:
JESUS said:
There was a reviewer who said it recharged fast, so every combat you'll pause and use VATS to exterminate everybody.
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The early demo builds at other conferences were setup for almost god-like characters (basically had cheats running). It's been said that VATS recharges much slower for regular gameplay, and people who've played it at later conferences/demos have said that the game felt more challenging.

Again, it's all subjective based on short play-throughs, so we'll have to see what the final retail build plays like.
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According to the most recent previews (this one in fact) it takes about 30 seconds to refill. This may be faster or slower based on stats but considering that it could still be easily "abused", it and/or something related (AI for example) are/is still broken.
 
So Texas Renegade, you're telling me that this is not paused based combat, but to use it we "pause" the game and to re-start the combat-"re-pause" the game?
You want to tell me this is not "paused-based" even whent it is actually, mostly based on "pausing" the combat?

Where is the logic in your explanation?
 
It is pause-based. You actually pause combat when entering V.A.T.S. The verb "to pause" says it all, doesn't it? :roll:

Per said:
But they scaled down damage inflicted by enemies during bullet time because it wasn't fun to die during a VATS cutscene.
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I hope this will not hurt immershion.
 
you basically paused in fallout everytime it was your turn.

You pause in any turnbased game, it is just that the pause is built into the system not something the human player has some control over.
 
yes, and time stops....we are arguing semantics here guys seriously.

I cannot believe I am arguing this.....Look it doesn't matter. Seriously, it is semantics.
 
Texas Renegade said:
yes, and time stops....we are arguing semantics here guys seriously.

I cannot believe I am arguing this.....Look it doesn't matter. Seriously, it is semantics.
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What the fuck? You're trying to argue that turn-based is pause-based because the action "pauses" while you're thinking about what you're going to do, and then when we tell you to get a fucking grip you say it's semantics? Are you that stupid?
 
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