Fallout 3 is dead, face it

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And, even though they seemed to be created to take the place of Deathclaws, the Wanamingos didn't do it too well.
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Hmm, do Wanamingos really deserve a place in the FO universe- or was it a one shot deal?
Well....no. I don't think so. If you had the player encounter the village first(and only a bit of the Super Mutant's army), then he'd be surprised at the moment where he should be surprised: when he arrives there.
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I still prefer to go for simplicity - as in separate communities, because then we don't have to make up another explanation for it to make sense. The Super Mutant worshippers are still very interesting if they don't originate from the Area 51 community. They were just the regular Nevada Vault Dwellers (question- did everyone alive originate from the Vaults?) who had never seen a Super Mutant before the big bad druggie mutant leader showed up.
And to ultimately go take the Vats back....yes.
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Hey, thats a nice touch...
If we allow for an escape possibility(or several of them: Speaking, sneaking, digging, and possibly fighting), but make the community so strong that you wouldn't make fighting your way all the way through, then they would have to come back.
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Again, I'd have to go with simplicity, or else it convolutes the story- not to mention makes the scripters want to kill you. We could still have the dual area effects on the ending without the backtracking and having to account for different dialogues depending on where they went first, and endless potential for plot and ending bugs. While that would make the ending progression more linear (Mutant God -> Area 51 -> Ending), the other parts of the lower Nevada area (as well as the original NCR area) would not be- we could set up a lot of different plot lines between Henderson, Boulder City, Lower Vegas (the Mutant God would be in North Vegas) as well as the smaller villages all related to how miserable the situation is. The good thing about those places is that they're all extremely close together.

Btw, can you think up a plot for Henderson? Right now, I have it pegged as the only semi-reasonable town around there (the Klamath of the NV area), where you get to hear all the problems related to the mutant cult and abductions. But I don't know if it's interesting enough. All Klamath had were minor stories and a rat infestation, so maybe we don't need to be too creative with this one. Or Lower Vegas could be the 'decent' town, and Henderson could be something else. The places wouldn't be called their original names anymore though. Boulder City could be called Hooverton or something like that.

If you guys or anyone else for whatever reason feel like making documents for any of these areas or other ones you think up, here are the section headings I lifted from the *shudder* Burrows design document on FO Bible 7:
Type:
Description:
Background:
Who Rules:
Population:
Armed Forces:
Notable Location:
Notable People:
Current Situation:
When Character First Enters:
Adventure Seeds:

And of course, the different results to be described in the ending sequences.
 
Hmm, do Wanamingos really deserve a place in the FO universe- or was it a one shot deal?
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One shot....

I still prefer to go for simplicity - as in separate communities, because then we don't have to make up another explanation for it to make sense. The Super Mutant worshippers are still very interesting if they don't originate from the Area 51 community. They were just the regular Nevada Vault Dwellers (question- did everyone alive originate from the Vaults?) who had never seen a Super Mutant before the big bad druggie mutant leader showed up.
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No, not everyone alive originated from the vaults. Only a few people. Ehh...if I remember correctly, that is.

Hey, thats a nice touch...
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Thank you.

Again, I'd have to go with simplicity, or else it convolutes the story- not to mention makes the scripters want to kill you. We could still have the dual area effects on the ending without the backtracking and having to account for different dialogues depending on where they went first, and endless potential for plot and ending bugs. While that would make the ending progression more linear (Mutant God -> Area 51 -> Ending), the other parts of the lower Nevada area (as well as the original NCR area) would not be- we could set up a lot of different plot lines between Henderson, Boulder City, Lower Vegas (the Mutant God would be in North Vegas) as well as the smaller villages all related to how miserable the situation is. The good thing about those places is that they're all extremely close together.
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You're right, simplicity is best.

Btw, can you think up a plot for Henderson? Right now, I have it pegged as the only semi-reasonable town around there (the Klamath of the NV area), where you get to hear all the problems related to the mutant cult and abductions. But I don't know if it's interesting enough. All Klamath had were minor stories and a rat infestation, so maybe we don't need to be too creative with this one. Or Lower Vegas could be the 'decent' town, and Henderson could be something else. The places wouldn't be called their original names anymore though. Boulder City could be called Hooverton or something like that.
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I currently don't have a plot line for Henderson, but there are always plenty of options with a "normal" town. There are always opportunities to make it more interesting or troubling.
 
Sander said:
Rosh: I don't think that a Deathclaw there would work, although the natural evolution of dog-like intelligence could work, Deathclaws should remain terrors; they should not be friendly intelligent monsters, as they were in FO2. As I've said before and somewhere else, the Deathclaws in FO1 scared the shit out of me and were incredibly tough, but in FO2 they were either intelligent, or too easy. And, even though they seemed to be created to take the place of Deathclaws, the Wanamingos didn't do it too well.
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Wanamingos were a pathetic addition because their background was pretty much nonexistent. I could have spent 5 minutes and come up with something better. Right off the top of my head, I would recommend that people watch THEM! and then be able to envision that the Wanamawhatthefucks are radiated ants.

The rogue DeathClaw idea could work, but the emphasis would have to be on the fact that the brooding mother is clearly insane, which could explain the change to a more diurnal schedule to watch the children. Without knowing how to approach, the PC might be attacked by her as they would smell different from the other villagers (something that made her consider killing the drunk). Or, if the villagers tried to take the kids away from the field completely, she may attack the villagers. As I said before, the situation is a good one to think about, but the actors can be changed to a number of things. In a sort of reversal, what about an insane DeathClaw that stole a child/found them, and then raised them along with their young? It's an interesting spin from the "wolf child" story and brings some interesting joinable NPC ideas, especially if they were used to the behaviors of the other young.

Which brings up another possible part of it I was hoping someone would touch upon. If the player has already played Fallout 1 and 2, then they know what everything generally is, so a super-mutant, ghoul, or DeathClaw would already draw some assumptions when they come across from them. Therefore, it would be best if this was used to introduce a wholly new species, perhaps a radwolf or something of the sort which would have pack mentality, although wolves are pretty much harmless unless threatened. The PC may not know that, however, and it really would look intimidating, especially if they didn't have fur but instead had a sort of patchy skin.

On another note:
In the US, I can think of two more things not really seen in the Fallout universe that would readily survive or even thrive in the portrayed setting - cockroaches and dandelions. That would lead to some very evil wine if it came from 10' tall stalks that had grew on the edge of a place like The Glow, out on the fringe of the rads.

As for the walled and guarded diner idea, that was brought about by some memories of Wasteland and was a separate idea (but I mentioned "Netty's Diner", as a small local eatery that would let the drunk look through their scraps), but then toned into the Fallout setting. In the post-apocalyptic world, people would pay a lot to have clean water and food, sometimes with their life. Hey, if having to work in a field means you get a place to sleep and food, with guards protecting you, then I really doubt many people in the setting would bitch due to the alternatives. That could also lead to some amusing things as a naive protagonist comes by the place and tries to "free" the people, based upon some misinformation by a competitor or someone like Gizmo who wants to take over the place with his own men.
 
Wanamingos were a pathetic addition because their background was pretty much nonexistent. I could have spent 5 minutes and come up with something better. Right off the top of my head, I would recommend that people watch THEM! and then be able to envision that the Wanamawhatthefucks are radiated ants.
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Agreed. They seemed to be nothing but a silly attempt to put something powerful in there.

The rogue DeathClaw idea could work, but the emphasis would have to be on the fact that the brooding mother is clearly insane, which could explain the change to a more diurnal schedule to watch the children. Without knowing how to approach, the PC might be attacked by her as they would smell different from the other villagers (something that made her consider killing the drunk). Or, if the villagers tried to take the kids away from the field completely, she may attack the villagers. As I said before, the situation is a good one to think about, but the actors can be changed to a number of things.
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The brooding deathclaw would indeed be more interesting, especially if the player has the assumption that deathclaws are either intelligent or hostile. If he notices that it's impossible to talk to the deathclaw, there's a good chance that he would just start shooting. While if he didn't, perhaps the deathclaw would simply protect her "young" by standing around, growling a bit.
In a sort of reversal, what about an insane DeathClaw that stole a child/found them, and then raised them along with their young? It's an interesting spin from the "wolf child" story and brings some interesting joinable NPC ideas, especially if they were used to the behaviors of the other young.
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Now that's a really good idea. The DeatchClawChild. That one's really good, though it should be seperate from the whole boogeyman thing, obviously.

Which brings up another possible part of it I was hoping someone would touch upon. If the player has already played Fallout 1 and 2, then they know what everything generally is, so a super-mutant, ghoul, or DeathClaw would already draw some assumptions when they come across from them. Therefore, it would be best if this was used to introduce a wholly new species, perhaps a radwolf or something of the sort which would have pack mentality, although wolves are pretty much harmless unless threatened. The PC may not know that, however, and it really would look intimidating, especially if they didn't have fur but instead had a sort of patchy skin.
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This as well could be interesting. The deathclaw plays on the player's Out of Character assumptions, while the radwolf would play on the dangerous look of the creature... Both could work equally well...

As for the walled and guarded diner idea, that was brought about by some memories of Wasteland and was a separate idea (but I mentioned "Netty's Diner", as a small local eatery that would let the drunk look through their scraps), but then toned into the Fallout setting. In the post-apocalyptic world, people would pay a lot to have clean water and food, sometimes with their life. Hey, if having to work in a field means you get a place to sleep and food, with guards protecting you, then I really doubt many people in the setting would bitch due to the alternatives. That could also lead to some amusing things as a naive protagonist comes by the place and tries to "free" the people, based upon some misinformation by a competitor or someone like Gizmo who wants to take over the place with his own men.
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Getting better every time you alter it. ;)
 
Heh, the only thing Wanamingos were good for were blowing up messily when you crit'd them...
Deathclaw Child...
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I like the idea too- that NPC would be utterly nuts... Maybe it'd be this guy running on all fours and biting/stabbing people. Give him a ton of action points and knockdown potential and he'd be the new version of Dogmeat...
As I said before, the situation is a good one to think about, but the actors can be changed to a number of things.
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Definitely. We could branch this off into distinct styles. The boogeyman could either humanoid like supermutant, ghoul, or new type of mutated human, therefore invoking more sympathy for that character once you found out that it was a misunderstanding- especially when you read about their former life. Or it could be a creature, like the Deathclaw or your Radwolf, where the focus would be more on the villager's fears, etc- plus as you guys mentioned, it would involve less 'roleplaying' on the part of the player to decide to kill the thing. Hmm- semi-intelligent centaur?
In the US, I can think of two more things not really seen in the Fallout universe that would readily survive or even thrive in the portrayed setting - cockroaches and dandelions.
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Yup, we definitely need roaches. We already had those plantspike shooting things, but really powerful plants would be fun too.
hypothetical endings
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I was thinking about how the endings would be done for a fan made project. Would the pictures and text explaining the aftermath of everything by themselves satisfy the players? That way many different endings for the main plot could be used. Or would it be better to add in universal ending movie (or two movies) to give the sense of accomplishment? Unless you make it generic enough, you would have to limit the ways players could pass the game, or spend years making lots of different movies. Can anyone think up of a good ending movie (or movies but not more than 2) for the story we have been talking about with multiple endings? It could be a generic action sequence or another prewar cartoon that sums the story up in a metaphorical sense.
 
When I think of the DeathClaw Child, it tends to bring to mind the Boomerang Kid from MM or RW. A little unorthodox, but still impressive in his own right. It would also lead to some esoteric and interesting things to be discovered with that NPC in tow.

As for the endings, I'd have to think of a few, which could take some time. I liked the bittersweet nature of the original endings for Junktown; Killian turns to killing over the simplest of things while Gizmo brings prosperity under his rule, or something like that. After all, the post-apocalyptic world is supposed to be fucked up. I don't agree with the methods for endings in FOT, each location should get it's own resolution. If some of these programmers were any good at logic gates and flow charts (which is more of an engineering thing most code monkeys don't ever think of), then complex, multiple endings should be extremely easy to implement. The simple fact is, most programmers don't start by learning how to juggle data. They learn how to toy with graphics and try to kludge in a data system of very screwy proportions. That's why the back-end is called that, and where it's supposed to be developed from first. A note to anyone still following this ramble, learn how to program databases and how to throw data around in a variety of data structures, then everything else is superficial as you can usually apply the good methods to almost any language as long as you know how to.
 
Why not make the player be the guy who escapes from the vault and survives, and then you have to get them out of there.

When you get out of the vault you should faint or something and wake up in someones house, someone has saved you. So you first have to find the vault, then help the ones trapped inside. Your not the only survivor though, another one succesfully escaped but he was captured by some evil dude and you have(can) to save him.

I think you should be able to find an old WW2 plane which you can repair (modify it to work with fuel cells) and use.

What do you think?
 
Roshambo said:
When I think of the DeathClaw Child, it tends to bring to mind the Boomerang Kid from MM or RW.
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It was from RW. All I remember though, is that it was one of the ugliest kids I have ever seen. I just felt the urge to find out what the heck he's been doing- so I IMDB'd him. His name is Emil Minty and he looks like this:
B2TMPremiereEmilMinty0163.JPG

As for the endings, I'd have to think of a few, which could take some time. I liked the bittersweet nature of the original endings for Junktown; Killian turns to killing over the simplest of things while Gizmo brings prosperity under his rule, or something like that.
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Hmm, I never knew about that. I can see it making sense now, because every time you even suggest that Junktown isn't perfect, Killian gets all pissy about it. Meanwhile you could call Gizmo a fat fuck and he'd take it without trying to kill you- at least the first time.
I don't agree with the methods for endings in FOT, each location should get it's own resolution.
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Never passed Tactics- returned it to my friend before even encountering the robots. But I'm really surprised that they didn't implement multiple area endings- this is the simplest of things to take from the originals.

Anyway, the thing I was originally wondering is whether a general ending movie necessary if they already have the still shots, the text, and the narration for the area endings. For the scenario Sander described, there would be over 6 different 'main' endings, which is cool, but tough to make a visual ending sequence out of.
 
I got to thinking one day.
I've been playing Silent Storm quite a huge bunch.
A company that at least would to the "air" of the game justice, NiVAL.
Why not bug them a couple of months, and see what happens :D
They're a shooting star, atleast I think so.

My 2 cents.

Well, I've got 10 game models waiting to be finished for my demoreel, so, Tadaa.
 
Francisco M L S G S said:
FO has a much larger number of fans that you probably think, in a single week a petition gathered 11.000 names asking for FO3. And if I'm not mistaken, about 60.000 guests came here at NMA to see BriosaFreak's thread about FO3's pictures.
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I couldnt agree more. I used to belieave FO was a rare game only relatively few people knew about or liked.. But, I always meet FO1/2 fans at LAN-parties. There are very many Fallout fans scattered around.

If enough people want FO3 to come, it will come eventually. It cost nothing to hope. In my opinion, Fallout 3 could use the Fallout 2 engine and still be the most roxxor game out money can buy.
 
Inskeme said:
Personally, I think Fallout 3 is more or less dead.
The chances of another company buying the licsence when Interplay meets its inevitable demise are slim to none, I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely.
How many games can anyone name that have been revived by another company? I'm sure they exist, but I can't think of any.
Fallout never had a huge fanbase, a zealous fan base full of people with good gaming taste, but the majority of people have bad game taste.
Think on the bright side, we still have Fallout Mods to hope for.
If anything I'm more bitter that Fallout 3 was ever started, got our hopes up.
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I think he is right, and if this type of game is going to continue, a couple of things are going to have to be decided:

Dump or not dump the FO2 Engine. I am partial to shifting production to IanOut. The reason is that the engine is more flexible than the FO2 engine and this means that once a common engine is in agreement, that the community can concentrate on making tools for an engine that will be in use for some time.


Slip donations or don't slip donations to mod makers. This gets legally dicey. However, like the man has said more than once, "Who is going to sue?"

Hackenberg
 
Inskeme said:
Personally, I think Fallout 3 is more or less dead.
The chances of another company buying the licsence when Interplay meets its inevitable demise are slim to none.
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Dumbass.
 
ROFLMAO.

Still, when the thread started it looked like Fallout was going to die with IPLY.
 
Well, uhh... Bethesda has FO3 rights, and they sure as hell... don't know what to do with them... here's your proof, goodbye!
 
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