Fallout 3 is dead, face it

[Revolver]

Ok, I'm not going to retype my entire post so here's a short recap of the minor points: I started off warning against the danger of falling into the unrealistic 'good' and 'evil' trap like a lot of RPGs do, and suggested that we leave it up to the player to decide his reasons. I also mentioned that FO1 and FO2 made a great many assumptions about the character background (grew up in a vault/arroyo, descended from VD, etc) in order to provide the player with realistic motivation (looking after your own people is something pretty universal unless you're a sociopath), and that it was hard to come up with a 'good person' reason without some sort of basic background information. Other minor points included mentioning that I was always talking about computer controlled bombers instead of missiles, and that they could have been reserves or have malfunctioned.

But most of that is probably irrelevant because now I'll try to make an alternate crazy story taking into account your suggestions and minus the nuke part (I also did this in the erased post- grrr).

Ok, the black and white intro movie starts- a 50s era jazz song starts playing- in big 50s style font "Vault-Tec Presents: How to keep your Top Secret Vault-Tec installation Top Secret" And then, it lists Steps like in Fallout 2, with over-the-top things like keeping the deadly force fields charged (w/ cartoon of pipboy getting fried), executing or abducting people who come too close, and showcasing an automated security system that prevents anyone leaving unless authorized. It ends with little written blurb like "Vault-Tec guarantees that this installation will remain hidden and intact in the event of nuclear war, global disease outbreak, and global warming ocean submersion scenarios." The camera zooms out and it turns out to be playing on a Pipboy 2000.

When the game starts, you find the data disk and pipboy on the skeleton of a former vault dweller. When you use the data disk (or when you take it to someone for them to show you how it works), you find out that there is a population of descendants of former military workers who are trapped because their clearance code was lost during the war. It also details plans for a few people to try to escape in order to get help (ie the corpse), and promises their technology and service to anyone who does help them.

Lets say the setting is again from the eastern part of the California FO1 map to Las Vegas and Area 51. The data doesn't tell you the exact location, just the general area- somewhere in southern Nevada. Unfortunately thats a hell of a long way away through some extra harsh areas. So maybe you can do several things to get past the initial area. 1) Get a working car and enough fuel 2) Find an experienced outdoorsman ranger type who's willing to take you there 3) Jack your Outdoorsman skill high enough to make it with a help of some survival tools 4) Build a rocketsled (ok, half joking, but if the science boys want it...) Of course, the solution to all these things would involve going to multiple areas near the start. (Or maybe limit it to the car in addition, b/c most people would want to drive)

Of course you would be dealing with the old factions as well as new ones, choosing to help or go against them. Lets say the world once again turned shitty (of course) because of conflicts between the Hub merchants, NCR, Raiders, Super Mutants, Ghouls, BOS, religious groups etc. You can get help from them, but they might want something in return and the decisions you make affect the balance of power and future of the area.

Once you get to Nevada you still don't know there the base is exactly, you can still do things in Las Vegas, Boulder, Henderson, and whatever other areas you want to add. Eventually, you find the location of the place- and there I'm stuck. I don't have an underlying theme as well as a 'main enemy' yet, and I want some sort of surprise once you get there. Maybe everyone's been dead for 80 years and all thats left is robots, or maybe they have a thriving community. The enemy could already be there within the base, could come from the outside as the inadvertant result of your actions (like an evil BoS faction following you), or could actually be the population you were trying to save, selfish and crazy after living in isolation (resulting in inbreeding?) for so long. I kinda like the last one. What do you think is suitable?

And of course the end should involve nukes.

 

[Sander]

Ok, I'm not going to retype my entire post so here's a short recap of the minor points: I started off warning against the danger of falling into the unrealistic 'good' and 'evil' trap like a lot of RPGs do, and suggested that we leave it up to the player to decide his reasons. I also mentioned that FO1 and FO2 made a great many assumptions about the character background (grew up in a vault/arroyo, descended from VD, etc) in order to provide the player with realistic motivation (looking after your own people is something pretty universal unless you're a sociopath), and that it was hard to come up with a 'good person' reason without some sort of basic background information. Other minor points included mentioning that I was always talking about computer controlled bombers instead of missiles, and that they could have been reserves or have malfunctioned.

Of course you leave it up to the player, that's the point. But you can help out by offering him a chance to save, not give a fuck, go loot etc.

Ok, the black and white intro movie starts- a 50s era jazz song starts playing- in big 50s style font "Vault-Tec Presents: How to keep your Top Secret Vault-Tec installation Top Secret" And then, it lists Steps like in Fallout 2, with over-the-top things like keeping the deadly force fields charged (w/ cartoon of pipboy getting fried), executing or abducting people who come too close, and showcasing an automated security system that prevents anyone leaving unless authorized. It ends with little written blurb like "Vault-Tec guarantees that this installation will remain hidden and intact in the event of nuclear war, global disease outbreak, and global warming ocean submersion scenarios." The camera zooms out and it turns out to be playing on a Pipboy 2000.

Wow, that one's quite good indeed.

When the game starts, you find the data disk and pipboy on the skeleton of a former vault dweller. When you use the data disk (or when you take it to someone for them to show you how it works), you find out that there is a population of descendants of former military workers who are trapped because their clearance code was lost during the war. It also details plans for a few people to try to escape in order to get help (ie the corpse), and promises their technology and service to anyone who does help them.

Hmm, sounds good as a beginning. However, there should be a better reason why they were locked in, and some could get out than that. It's....weak. "Lost their access code" doesn't work. Besides, everything worked with passes.
Locked in a military base because it got bombed to itsy little bits and they can't get out sounds better.

Lets say the setting is again from the eastern part of the California FO1 map to Las Vegas and Area 51. The data doesn't tell you the exact location, just the general area- somewhere in southern Nevada. Unfortunately thats a hell of a long way away through some extra harsh areas. So maybe you can do several things to get past the initial area. 1) Get a working car and enough fuel 2) Find an experienced outdoorsman ranger type who's willing to take you there 3) Jack your Outdoorsman skill high enough to make it with a help of some survival tools 4) Build a rocketsled (ok, half joking, but if the science boys want it...) Of course, the solution to all these things would involve going to multiple areas near the start. (Or maybe limit it to the car in addition, b/c most people would want to drive)

IMHO, a car should take a while before being available. A pretty damned long time at that.
Also, you should just be able to travel. There shouldn't be any reason why you'd need to jack up your outdoorsman skill or anything, if you can just travel there. Outdoorsman could be used to do some more stuff than just encouners(such as food and the like), but that's all the player's own problem...

Once you get to Nevada you still don't know there the base is exactly, you can still do things in Las Vegas, Boulder, Henderson, and whatever other areas you want to add.

Obviously.

Eventually, you find the location of the place- and there I'm stuck. I don't have an underlying theme as well as a 'main enemy' yet, and I want some sort of surprise once you get there. Maybe everyone's been dead for 80 years and all thats left is robots, or maybe they have a thriving community. The enemy could already be there within the base, could come from the outside as the inadvertant result of your actions (like an evil BoS faction following you), or could actually be the population you were trying to save, selfish and crazy after living in isolation (resulting in inbreeding?) for so long. I kinda like the last one. What do you think is suitable?

You want surprise at the end, obviously. But let's not go down the BoS road again, it's been done too every single time. The BoS should be there(have one, maybe two bases), but they should be more of a neutral outsider protecting technology.

What could be is that the town where you arrive is merely an interlude, where the people have escaped the military complex and built their own little town(their rations were running short). But they've been getting repression problems. Ie: some group is repressing/extorting them for goods and stuff. Up to you to go join the group or kick the shit out of it, or, again, do nothing, or whatever else the player can think of.
Then the group could be part of some secret religion who worship Super Mutants(hmm....why not?). Making one of the smarter Super Mutants at the head of this group, providing them with the tech they had at the Master's bases, and they're refueling themselves with tech from innocent passers-by. They'll try to develop themselves as scourge of the wastes, dominating it etc.
Think of the group in "The Postman".

 

[Revolver]

Lost their access code" doesn't work. Besides, everything worked with passes. Locked in a military base because it got bombed to itsy little bits and they can't get out sounds better.

Ok, lets say the security system was damaged during the war and every time anyone tries to escape, the 50s style security bots either gun them down or bring them back. That guy only got out because he was one out of group of many who tried to escape at the same time, and the only one who made it. But that doesn't explain why he ended up at the NCR area looking for help instead of the Vegas area. But then again, Vegas could be a hellhole, and NCR is well known for being more developed. What do you think?

IMHO, a car should take a while before being available. A pretty damned long time at that. Also, you should just be able to travel.

I was thinking the first part would take a long time, seeing as how there are a lot of old FO1 locations to explore. But I see your point about it being too restricting- it won't fit w/ Fallout. But the player needs a reason not to run straight for Nevada from the outset. And I can't think of any, besides people going 'You'll never make it by yourself" or "You don't know what it's like out there" Maybe, not restrict the player, but make it really really hard to get there with tough random encounters.

What could be is that the town where you arrive is merely an interlude, where the people have escaped the military complex and built their own little town(their rations were running short). But they've been getting repression problems. Ie: some group is repressing/extorting them for goods and stuff. Up to you to go join the group or kick the shit out of it, or, again, do nothing, or whatever else the player can think of. Then the group could be part of some secret religion who worship Super Mutants(hmm....why not?). Making one of the smarter Super Mutants at the head of this group, providing them with the tech they had at the Master's bases, and they're refueling themselves with tech from innocent passers-by. They'll try to develop themselves as scourge of the wastes, dominating it etc.

That could work, but somehow it doesn't seem important enough to serve as an ending. After all, you probably saved some communities on the way there. There has to be a lot more at stake- like in FO1, the mutants wanted to dip everyone, and FO2, the Enclave wanted to kill everyone. It'd be interesting to see this sort of interaction between the sheltered population and Super Mutants though. After all, if the Super Mutants are the first people they see, they might think the whole world turned into Super Mutants. Maybe its the population instead of an outside cult who worships the Mutants.

I still don't want to give up my idea yet that the main enemy turns out to be the people you were trying to save, Mutant influence or not. Several possibly inbred generations stuck in one place for so long (from the war to past FO2), watching tons of old propaganda videos would make a crazy population indeed- and fitting with the dark, cynical setting. Plus they would be pretty formidable considering they are descended from military personnel and have the finest in military technology.

You could say that they managed to get out sometime before you get there, or you could be the one to inadvertantly set them loose. I still have to think of a motive for why they want to threaten the world. Maybe they have some crazy religion like you said, or think that the Chinese won (they've been in there so long that they don't even know what Chinese people look like), and they have to take back the US with their weapons (which became available once the security system went down).

 

[Roshambo]

There are some very excellent ideas here, and a pity some will not be used, though there are some I don't quite agree with but for mostly minor reasons.

A super-mutant treated like a god would have been an excellent NPC concept, especially if he is so drugged out on something all the time that keeps them enthralled with his "wisdom". A plethora of design ideas could come from that and the village into which he wandered.

For this matter, an idea I had when playing Fallout for the first time. What if someone from Shady Sands saw a ghoul walk into the place? How would they treat them? I could imagine a few children who are playing in a supposedly "safe" field could find a "boogeyman", along with associated rhymes. (Speaking of which, like the black death, wouldn't there arise some interesting children's rhymes for the post-apocalyptic world, especially if they had lines from those old industrial videos about "what to do in the case of an atomic bomb"?) The "boogeyman" could in fact be a ghoul, or even Harold as he's further living and has taken to watching over children in his own right. Low INT characters would possibly mistakenly kill him in defense of the children, leading to an ironic note as the stupid character (unable to read Harold's journal) takes Harold's belongings back to the village leader and the leader tells him that Harold was in fact keeping some small dangerous animals from harming the kids by keeping small traps in hidden places and scaring the others away... kids who are now dead, thanks to the bumbling idiot. I think that would be perfect to have along with when a character kills the dangerous "boogeyman" without question (having never seen a ghoul before and prompted by some concerned citizens who overheard their children singing the rhymes, which may have clues in them on how to find Harold since the kids may not trust the hero yet, opening some sub-paths for speech and stealth both), then later finds out he killed Harold when he looks through his things. It would be even more ironic if the hero/heroine would kill the "boogeyman" and return back to tell the people the kids are now safe, then have a brahmin herdsman come running in and say something chewed up the kids and you didn't do your job...then this opens up more options if the character could talk their way out of it, threaten the people along the same lines, or shoot their way out because they stiffed you (or just shoot the people who hired you as intimidation).

Unfortunately, I would see a lot of people reloading instead of playing this through. It does fit into the bitter endings that were originally going to be for Fallout's Junktown, and it suits the dark life is cheap setting of Fallout rather well.

In fact, a "good" ending to that would be if you didn't kill Harold or if the "boogeyman" was just another lost ghoul (doesn't really matter if it's Harold, but it may open up more info from him, and would be a nice touch for him to end his days like this), and they in turn became accpeted into the community as a sort of good luck charm, but only if you convince the ghoul to go to the village, else the villagers would need some sign that the ghoul wasn't dangerous (maybe he could get hurt by an attack and run off after they are driven away, witnessed by the PC if he doesn't attack and just watches for awhile or talks to him and tries to see if he means no harm). At which, and if the PC can't convince him to go to the village (insert a bitter story of how villages are full of xenophobic bigotry and hatred...but the kids are kids and have to be saved), I think the ghoul would become something of a god or revered character to the village like in much of the world's mythos, if the PC can't explain it well, especially if he doesn't know what a ghoul is.

Keep the good ideas coming, please.

 

[calculon000]

Ok, I wanna post my ideas now:

In the character generations screen, have a few extra traits like "background" and "race" that would make the player choose where his/her character comes from and what race he/she is. I really would like to see a FO game where the main character could be any race (Ghoul, human or super-mutant, but not deathclaw, because it would effect the game way too much)

If we could make a 3D engine for the game, then the talking heads could simply be the character models in real-time, thus letting everyone you talk to have a talking head. (Although voice would be a problem)

I can't remember where, but in one Fallout forum thread I read a really good premise for the background story:
That the character is part of a group of pre-war people who froze themselves in cryotubes because they were dying of a terminal illness (Cancer, aids, ms, anything) and the only hope they have of getting cured now is to travel to Vault City.
In this scenario, the player could choose what disease the character has, and as the game progresses, the character could show progressively worse symptoms of that illness.

I like the intro movie being played on a pip-boy screen, we HAVE to have that.

Another premise of my own devising is that the character is a soldier that had been frozen in a cyrotube since before the war (Like the guy you find in Sierra Army Depot, minus the post-cryo syndrome that kills him). Maybe the character looks to join the BOS or some other military organisation.

As for the motivation to get to a certain place, I REALLY don’t think we should have the “left over nuke” scenario. There are PLENTY of reasons the character would look for an old military base, like to find some technology and sell it to get rich, or maybe s/he is simply sick of being a waistband inhabitant and wants to join the population of a vault.

I want to have the vehicle and combat systems from tactics in there, the vehicles would add to the game greatly, is the character and his/her npc’s could cruse around, taking all their belongings in the car with them. Although there was the car in F2, you never really got the feeling that the character actually drove around in it, know what I mean? Also, I want there to be an RV somewhere in the game that would let the player drive across the wasteland without having to use the outdoorsmen skill (He and the npc’s could live in the RV). Also, it would be cool if the player actually required to eat to stay alive, as you would always have to carry food and water with you when you travelled.

To have vehicles in the game like in tactics, you’d need to add the piloting skill to the special system.

I have a few questions though:

Will the character be a descendant of the first two characters in the first two Fallout games?
Will this take place over all of California and Nevada, encompassing all the locations of the first two fallout games? Or somewhere else?
How far in the future can we reasonably expect California to still be a wasteland? (IE no civilisation)
When will the game take place? Another 80 years in the future the NCR may control all of California, making the wasteland much more civilised.

This is my two cents, right now I’m really tired, so I can probably think of more later.

EDIT: It would also be cool if we could make it so the character heals at a slower rate if s/he can't find a decent place to sleep, decent places being a hotel, RV, car, ect. I always thought, when I played F! and 2, how uncomfortable it would be to just sleep on the desert floor without a sleeping bag or anything.

 

[Revolver]

I really like the 'boogeyman' storyline- I can almost play it in my mind. However, I think it should involve a Super Mutant instead of Harold or another ghoul. I mean, Harold's an articulate enough guy to let the villagers know who he is and what he's about without falling victim to their prejudices. A Super Mutant on the other hand (a very low int one at that), would be the type who would be too afraid to show his face to the villagers because of his threatening appearance and lack of communication skills. He could be carrying around a journal (on data disk?) that he had kept before he got dipped where he talks affectionately about his own children (I think I'm treading on familiar territory here, but I can't remember what this reminds me of). The rest of the story can unfold as you described, based on the player's actions. The 'proof' of his harmlessness would come from convincing him to hand over his datadisk.

Of course, if we are starting out in the FO1 area after FO2, everyone will pretty much know what a ghoul or supermutant is, so maybe this could be a small village on the way to Nevada. Then to use the other promising storyline when we get to Henderson, there could be a cult worshipping an intelligent ghoul or Super Mutant. They could be persecuting the 'unbelievers' in order to force them to convert. We would be continuing the trend from Fallout 2 of certain groups considering themselves superior to others. This could apply to other parts of the story as well, which I'm going to thow out random ideas for.

In the California area, President Tandi is getting even more ancient, sick, and ineffective, while rival councilmen determine NCR policy. The current stronger councilman (maybe the one that marries Lynette) is having NCR adopt the 'citizen' policy of Vault City and screwing the other areas with harsher policies- and maybe even high trade tariffs. The other councilman is against this and wants to cut a deal with the Hub merchants, who are angry about these developments and want to open NCR up for immigration and free trade. Of course, the NCR rangers are extremely pissed off as well about Lynette. (maybe we can off her safely in this one ) Other plots could involve Junktown and the V15 Squatters.

Similarly, the BOS now lacks clear leadership, and is leaning towards extremism when it comes to keeping higher technology only within their organization, as others are "unfit" to possess it. It might get to the point where they are actively sabotaging other faction's technology. This would get worse unless you stepped in and help the moderate factions take back control.

Once you get out of California, the tech level will take a dramatic dive, and would bring back more of the original post-apoc feel. Vegas would be a fun place to get creative with, but I haven't thought of a backstory for it yet- only that it probably should be a hellhole, where that original escapee could not find any help for his people. As for the other relatively significant Nevada city, Boulder City, there could be some sort of story related to the Hoover Dam.

Finally, at the end, you have the isolated population who's been thoroughly brainwashed by old US propaganda videos that they've grown to treat religiously. They are convinced they are the only true Americans left, and that China has taken over California. So they are prepared to unlease their hi-tech Area 51 weapons on NCR and surrounding areas unless you can do something about it. "Evil" characters might not give a damn about California, but there's still motivation to find some way destroy these people and gain their technology.

 

[calculon000]

I really like the 'boogeyman' storyline- I can almost play it in my mind. However, I think it should involve a Super Mutant instead of Harold or another ghoul. I mean, Harold's an articulate enough guy to let the villagers know who he is and what he's about without falling victim to their prejudices. A Super Mutant on the other hand (a very low int one at that), would be the type who would be too afraid to show his face to the villagers because of his threatening appearance and lack of communication skills. He could be carrying around a journal (on data disk?) that he had kept before he got dipped where he talks affectionately about his own children (I think I'm treading on familiar territory here, but I can't remember what this reminds me of). The rest of the story can unfold as you described, based on the player's actions. The 'proof' of his harmlessness would come from convincing him to hand over his datadisk.

Is this part of the intro, or just a quest?

Of course, if we are starting out in the FO1 area after FO2, everyone will pretty much know what a ghoul or supermutant is, so maybe this could be a small village on the way to Nevada. Then to use the other promising storyline when we get to Henderson, there could be a cult worshipping an intelligent ghoul or Super Mutant. They could be persecuting the 'unbelievers' in order to force them to convert. We would be continuing the trend from Fallout 2 of certain groups considering themselves superior to others. This could apply to other parts of the story as well, which I'm going to thow out random ideas for.

lol, the children of the cathedral live!

In the California area, President Tandi is getting even more ancient, sick, and ineffective, while rival councilmen determine NCR policy. The current stronger councilman (maybe the one that marries Lynette) is having NCR adopt the 'citizen' policy of Vault City and screwing the other areas with harsher policies- and maybe even high trade tariffs. The other councilman is against this and wants to cut a deal with the Hub merchants, who are angry about these developments and want to open NCR up for immigration and free trade. Of course, the NCR rangers are extremely pissed off as well about Lynette. (maybe we can off her safely in this one ) Other plots could involve Junktown and the V15 Squatters.

Keep in mind that Tandi is 97 years old in F2, so I think she would be dead by the time of F3. And what about the opposite scenario: NCR makes Vault City less exsclusive? Obviously, NCR would be able to effect Vault City more than the other way around due to its size.

Similarly, the BOS now lacks clear leadership, and is leaning towards extremism when it comes to keeping higher technology only within their organization, as others are "unfit" to possess it. It might get to the point where they are actively sabotaging other faction's technology. This would get worse unless you stepped in and help the moderate factions take back control.

What if the brotherhood learns a lesson from the Enclave and becomes stronger by the time of F3? That way, the brotherhood you describe would be a threat to the security of the wasteland.

Once you get out of California, the tech level will take a dramatic dive, and would bring back more of the original post-apoc feel. Vegas would be a fun place to get creative with, but I haven't thought of a backstory for it yet- only that it probably should be a hellhole, where that original escapee could not find any help for his people. As for the other relatively significant Nevada city, Boulder City, there could be some sort of story related to the Hoover Dam.

I don't think we should turn Vegas into another Reno, but anything else would be fine.

Finally, at the end, you have the isolated population who's been thoroughly brainwashed by old US propaganda videos that they've grown to treat religiously. They are convinced they are the only true Americans left, and that China has taken over California. So they are prepared to unlease their hi-tech Area 51 weapons on NCR and surrounding areas unless you can do something about it. "Evil" characters might not give a damn about California, but there's still motivation to find some way destroy these people and gain their technology.

Thats a good idea, but maybe have it as a town and not the end of the game.

I was thinking we should also show somehow that Marcus is sterile, even though he didn't think he was because is "pluming" still worked, just so we can close that stupid sterility joke.

 

[Revolver]

Is this part of the intro, or just a quest?

Read the whole page- my intro is on top. Everything is in relation to the story on the top of the page. Also read my post. I mention that this should be on the way to Nevada, which is probably mid to late game.

lol, the children of the cathedral live!

Haven't played FO1 in a while so I don't remember that part too well. But I'm currently going through it now. If it's too similar, we can have to mutant cult be doing something else.

Keep in mind that Tandi is 97 years old in F2, so I think she would be dead by the time of F3. And what about the opposite scenario: NCR makes Vault City less exsclusive? Obviously, NCR would be able to effect Vault City more than the other way around due to its size.

I let Tandi live so if this ever turned into a real project, we could potentially reuse her talking head. Plus, she seemed in pretty good health, even at 97. Must be the buffout and mentats. Same with Lynette- who could definitely effect NCR drastically given her husband is a powerful councilman (assuming that ending), and given her domineering personality.

I don't think we should turn Vegas into another Reno, but anything else would be fine.

I never said it should be anything like Reno. Fallout 2 anachronisms are what we should be avoiding.

I was thinking we should also show somehow that Marcus is sterile, even though he didn't think he was because is "pluming" still worked, just so we can close that stupid sterility joke.

Let's just pretend that the things that don't fit never happened.

 

[APTYP]

What's wrong with a prequel?

240 years after the war, at the rate things are going, the world will be rebuilt.

 

[Revolver]

What's wrong with a prequel?

240 years after the war, at the rate things are going, the world will be rebuilt.

I'd be interested in a prequel as well- having a world less developed than in FO1 would be pretty cool. I guess the problems would be having no super mutants, possibly no deathclaws nor other hybrid mutant creatures. I was thinking maybe there could be a game where you were Harold or Richard Grey before they found the military base and were transformed- but I'd think most FO players *need* to create their own character. (maybe u just choose the stats?)

 

[APTYP]

I don't care much about supermutants or deathclaws, but IIRC deathclaws are not FEV mutations. And prequels are not required to have characters from previous games, or even being set in the same area.

 

[calculon000]

I let Tandi live so if this ever turned into a real project, we could potentially reuse her talking head. Plus, she seemed in pretty good health, even at 97. Must be the buffout and mentats. Same with Lynette- who could definitely effect NCR drastically given her husband is a powerful councilman (assuming that ending), and given her domineering personality.

I still think having anyone whose 110 years old (Or whenever this takes place) is pushing it, but it would be funny to have one character who is in all 3 games. Harold must be 200 years old at this point as well. (But he can theoretically live forever.)

I never said it should be anything like Reno. Fallout 2 anachronisms are what we should be avoiding.

Agreed, but when you said it should be a "hellhole" I pictued Reno. Anyway, I think for some of the towns, we should take the original maps from Fallout 2 and change them so the player would recognise the streets and layout of old towns from Fallout 2. I think that would be cool.

Let's just pretend that the things that don't fit never happened.

Ok, but for continuity, I think we should try to tie up loose ends like this.

 

[Big T]

What about an alternate version of F2 where the original vault dweller had failed on his/her quest?
There could be small pockets of human resistance to the Unity.

It always seemed stupid to me that F2 assumed you had done X in F1. Like being male, saving Tandi, Being a hero (instead of a bastard), Leaving one of the Khans alive (to found the Khans in Vault 15), Etc.

 

[Revolver]

And prequels are not required to have characters from previous games, or even being set in the same area.

Absolutely. I was just mentioning a possible story that I thought might be cool b/c it would tie in w/ the original plot, involve the high end technology late-game while maintaining setting consistency, and end with the character possibly being mutated in the military base. But of course, there are better stories to be told before FO1- if you have time why don't you write one?

I still think having anyone whose 110 years old (Or whenever this takes place) is pushing it, but it would be funny to have one character who is in all 3 games. Harold must be 200 years old at this point as well. (But he can theoretically live forever.)

Harold is definitely the de facto tie-in character- but an extremely minor one at that. Also, if Tandi is ever in a sequel, it would be interesting to see her at deaths door (weak voice, coughing)- we might even get to send her off.

What about an alternate version of F2 where the original vault dweller had failed on his/her quest?
There could be small pockets of human resistance to the Unity.
It always seemed stupid to me that F2 assumed you had done X in F1. Like being male, saving Tandi, Being a hero (instead of a bastard), Leaving one of the Khans alive (to found the Khans in Vault 15), Etc.

Your two points contradict (it'd be even more unreasonable to assume he/she failed) but I see what you mean. I might have heard something, but I'm not quite sure- were people ever working on a mod of FO2 where they cut out all the inconsistencies, toned down the modern references, or made alternate assumptions in the beginning?

We would be continuing the trend from Fallout 2 of certain groups considering themselves superior to others. This could apply to other parts of the story as well, which I'm going to thow out random ideas for.

Ok, I realize I'm spending a lot of time writing about this one possible story, which is funny b/c it started out as a random thought to try to prove a point- but it became much better with great suggestions by people, which I hope they don't mind being assimilated. Of course, it is still nowhere near something that most people can be happy with so if people (assuming they care) have problems please feel free to criticize/contribute as much as you want. BTW, heres a map of the area I was talking about - but the Boneyard (LA) wouldnt be a part of it- it's just there to get a general sense of location. The lower bound would be around where Palmdale is.

Anyway, I now feel sharing too much thematically w/ FO2 is a bad idea- but I'd like to keep the NCR area intrigue that I posted about earlier as a contrast. Continuing the story, the Vegas area should be even less civilized than what we saw in FO1, just so we could get back into the post-apoc atmostphere. But why would the NCR area have prospered so much while the Vegas area is still a piece of shit after all those years? (well, maybe not that bad, but stuck in full Road Warrior minus vehicles or Waterworld minus water mode)

Some of the basic factors that promote economic growth are: providing an adequate legal system, allowing free exchange of ideas and beliefs, fostering technological advancement as well as human capital, and encouraging open market based trade to allocate resources. We could parcel out the credit for the presence of each of these things in the NCR area to the major factions. Shady Sands and Junktown established and enforced the legal framework for the area. The Hub obviously was centered around open trade. The Brotherhood of Steel shared their scribes' knowledge and technological discoveries (thus energy fences in NCR), diluting their personal power, but contributing to the development of the area.

When we start this hypothetical game (actually, the V15 squatter area is a nice place to find the initial body/pipboy), all these things are in jeopardy as I described in my earlier post, a lot having to do with bad leadership- which you could aggravate, correct, or ignore during the course of the game. Lynette's narrowminded influence hampers basic freedoms as well as damages NCRs previous open relations with its neighbors. As mentioned earlier, part of the BOS becomes fanatical worshippers of advanced technology and wants to take drastic measures to become the sole possessors of it. Trade in the Hub is being undermined by NCR. Not all the areas have to correspond to this- there should low-civ areas to explore in the remains of Necropolis and the raider camp. Ok once these problems are aggravated/ resolved, you travel east with help/ car/ skills etc., you pass through the village with the children/ "boogeyman" and get to lower Nevada. There, you see some of the things that would prevent civilization from developing. Also along the way, you find clues to get to Area 51 with people recounting details of the escaped vault dweller who came looking for help and never found any.

For example, at Henderson, we could have the cult of the drugged out Super Mutant be presiding over a community and restricting all behaviors that could potentially undermine its influence. People could be forced to wear those metal clamps on their faces and disfigure themselves as the mutant had be the highest standard of physical attractiveness- stuff like that. At the Boulder City, the community could be based around the various inscriptions dedicated to the Hoover Dam. If you've ever read them, you'd see that they make it sound the greatest single creation in the history of the US. "Since primordial times American Indian tribes and nations lifted their hands to great the great spirit from these ranges and plains. We, now with them, in peace, buildeth again a nation. " and "It is fitting that the flag of our country should fly here in honor of those men who inspired by a vision of lonely lands made fruitful, conceived this great work and of those whose genius and labor made that vision a reality." Their society could have been be stuck worshipping this thing (which somehow survived the war) especially since civilization crumbled around them, and they needed something to hang onto. The problem is that they're stuck focusing completely on the past. Vegas could be a lawless place of constant street battles between different gangs and raiders trying to take control over the diminishing resources like water supply. (ok, it could be a lot deeper than this, but I havent thought of anything yet).

At Area 51, you have the situation I described earlier, with the people you (if you were motivated by moral reasons) were originally going to save trying to destroy California (again- wings of remote controlled bombers anyone? ). They represent all these negatives at once, as they are fanatical, stuck in the past (propaganda videos), and think that they alone should determine the fate of the US. Maybe they also capture and probe- er, torture you when you get there to provide extra incentive for you to take them out -though of course there should also be the option to convince them (using a lot of skill b/c they'd be pretty crazy) that they're completely misguided and should abandon their plans.

 

[Sander]

Ok, lets say the security system was damaged during the war and every time anyone tries to escape, the 50s style security bots either gun them down or bring them back. That guy only got out because he was one out of group of many who tried to escape at the same time, and the only one who made it. But that doesn't explain why he ended up at the NCR area looking for help instead of the Vegas area. But then again, Vegas could be a hellhole, and NCR is well known for being more developed. What do you think?

That works as well. He went to NCR because he couldn't get help in Vegas or whatever.

Actually, you don't need to give a reason as to why he was there. He's dead, he can't explain it anyway....

I was thinking the first part would take a long time, seeing as how there are a lot of old FO1 locations to explore. But I see your point about it being too restricting- it won't fit w/ Fallout. But the player needs a reason not to run straight for Nevada from the outset. And I can't think of any, besides people going 'You'll never make it by yourself" or "You don't know what it's like out there" Maybe, not restrict the player, but make it really really hard to get there with tough random encounters.

Let the player run to Nevada, he'll get killed. Nothing was restricting you from going to the Master immediately from the onset of FO1 either, you'd just get shot due to random encounters and other nasty stuff. LET the player go there if he wants to, and then let him die....

That could work, but somehow it doesn't seem important enough to serve as an ending. After all, you probably saved some communities on the way there. There has to be a lot more at stake- like in FO1, the mutants wanted to dip everyone, and FO2, the Enclave wanted to kill everyone. It'd be interesting to see this sort of interaction between the sheltered population and Super Mutants though. After all, if the Super Mutants are the first people they see, they might think the whole world turned into Super Mutants. Maybe its the population instead of an outside cult who worships the Mutants.

As I said, it could be a main Super Mutant leading the packs-and wanting to do what the Master did. To do what the Master did(only without the absolute grossness, and more of the megalomaniac thingies), he'd need the Vats(or at least a load of FEV). So he needs to head west, and on the way, he's going to "convert"(and enslave) as many people as possible.

I still don't want to give up my idea yet that the main enemy turns out to be the people you were trying to save, Mutant influence or not. Several possibly inbred generations stuck in one place for so long (from the war to past FO2), watching tons of old propaganda videos would make a crazy population indeed- and fitting with the dark, cynical setting. Plus they would be pretty formidable considering they are descended from military personnel and have the finest in military technology.

Why not have both? Part of the community could still be living there, the other part could have joined up with high-and-mighty-super-mutant.

Boogeymanstory:
The boogeymanstory is great, however, I think taht Revolver is taking it too far. It would have to remain limited to that one little village, because if it were not limited to one little village, it would become far too influential for a small thing like that.
And a ghoul would be better, since a Super Mutant wouldn't die that easily, and the ghoul could be hiding because he's ashamed. There's no need for him to come out of hiding.


@Tandi: Tandi would have to be dead, so that the NCR could be corrupt, to put back the gritty atmosphere, instead of the nice and clean atmosphere you had in the NCR. If the NCR is corrupt, it will have taken a step backwards in development, making providing for low-tech areas a lot less of aburden, and you don't need to go out of the way for it. Vegas could then still be a hellhole, but it wouldn't need to be absolute low-tech. It could be more like the Hub in FO1.

Haven't played FO1 in a while so I don't remember that part too well. But I'm currently going through it now. If it's too similar, we can have to mutant cult be doing something else

To prevent the mutant cult from becoming FO1 all over again, you'd have to have them focused on the more brutal and "evil" parts of the COC in FO1. So instead of pretending to be nice people healing everyone, they're a bunch of murdering raiders.

The Brotherhood of Steel shared their scribes' knowledge and technological discoveries (thus energy fences in NCR), diluting their personal power, but contributing to the development of the area.

No. Just, don't... The Brotherhood of Steel have always been the secluded guardians of technology, they wouldn't start giving away tech unless they had to. Even though they helped build NCR, sharing a lot of tech would be bad for continuity. Only the absolute minimum would have been given to NCR.

When we start this hypothetical game (actually, the V15 squatter area is a nice place to find the initial body/pipboy), all these things are in jeopardy as I described in my earlier post, a lot having to do with bad leadership- which you could aggravate, correct, or ignore during the course of the game. Lynette's narrowminded influence hampers basic freedoms as well as damages NCRs previous open relations with its neighbors. As mentioned earlier, part of the BOS becomes fanatical worshippers of advanced technology and wants to take drastic measures to become the sole possessors of it. Trade in the Hub is being undermined by NCR. Not all the areas have to correspond to this- there should low-civ areas to explore in the remains of Necropolis and the raider camp. Ok once these problems are aggravated/ resolved, you travel east with help/ car/ skills etc., you pass through the village with the children/ "boogeyman" and get to lower Nevada. There, you see some of the things that would prevent civilization from developing. Also along the way, you find clues to get to Area 51 with people recounting details of the escaped vault dweller who came looking for help and never found any.

's all good.

For example, at Henderson, we could have the cult of the drugged out Super Mutant be presiding over a community and restricting all behaviors that could potentially undermine its influence. People could be forced to wear those metal clamps on their faces and disfigure themselves as the mutant had be the highest standard of physical attractiveness- stuff like that. At the Boulder City, the community could be based around the various inscriptions dedicated to the Hoover Dam. If you've ever read them, you'd see that they make it sound the greatest single creation in the history of the US. "Since primordial times American Indian tribes and nations lifted their hands to great the great spirit from these ranges and plains. We, now with them, in peace, buildeth again a nation. " and "It is fitting that the flag of our country should fly here in honor of those men who inspired by a vision of lonely lands made fruitful, conceived this great work and of those whose genius and labor made that vision a reality." Their society could have been be stuck worshipping this thing (which somehow survived the war) especially since civilization crumbled around them, and they needed something to hang onto. The problem is that they're stuck focusing completely on the past. Vegas could be a lawless place of constant street battles between different gangs and raiders trying to take control over the diminishing resources like water supply. (ok, it could be a lot deeper than this, but I havent thought of anything yet).

's all even better, although most of it(if it ever comes to development) would have to be devised by the individual town creators..

At Area 51, you have the situation I described earlier, with the people you (if you were motivated by moral reasons) were originally going to save trying to destroy California (again- wings of remote controlled bombers anyone? ). They represent all these negatives at once, as they are fanatical, stuck in the past (propaganda videos), and think that they alone should determine the fate of the US. Maybe they also capture and probe- er, torture you when you get there to provide extra incentive for you to take them out -though of course there should also be the option to convince them (using a lot of skill b/c they'd be pretty crazy) that they're completely misguided and should abandon their plans.

No. This is too(WAY too) reminiscent of FO2. Think about it, the only difference is that the Enclave actually was the government. This is just the FO2 endgame, but not on an oil tanker. And stop with the nukes already.

 

[Revolver]

LET the player go there if he wants to, and then let him die....

Sure. But we still need a story reason for the player to hang around the area instead of taking the direct logical path. It's not too hard I guess- maybe its just a lot of people tell him/her to find help because its way too dangerous to go in that direction.

Why not have both? Part of the community could still be living there, the other part could have joined up with high-and-mighty-super-mutant.

Having both is good, but then you would have to explain why half the population managed to get out while half is supposedly stuck. If the explanation is that they breached security long ago, then it would give it away to the player too early. I think they'd work better as independent communities.

The boogeymanstory is great, however, I think taht Revolver is taking it too far. It would have to remain limited to that one little village

Actually, I didn't suggest it be more than a little village. I think my wording needs work, b/c someone else thought it was a replacement intro. But I'm sure you realize all this by now, having read the later part of the story.

And a ghoul would be better, since a Super Mutant wouldn't die that easily, and the ghoul could be hiding because he's ashamed. There's no need for him to come out of hiding.

If it is in mid game, and the guy was outgunned/unarmed, he'd be pretty easy to take out no matter what he was. Plus aren't all the ghouls ancient? I don't think they'd be ashamed for so long if it was reasonably intelligent (we haven't seen any idiot ghouls in the previous games i think). IMHO a low INT mutant would both be scary looking and unable to communicate properly- plus, he would be more threatening to the player, giving more of an incentive to kill him on a mistaken assumption. And we can have the pre-vat dipping story on the data-disk, which I liked but I don't know if you guys did. We should continue to debate which one fits better.

@Tandi: Tandi would have to be dead, so that the NCR could be corrupt, to put back the gritty atmosphere, instead of the nice and clean atmosphere you had in the NCR. If the NCR is corrupt, it will have taken a step backwards in development, making providing for low-tech areas a lot less of a burden

Well, when I was describing why the area prospered, I was talking background- it wasn't what I had in mind for the game. As I said later, when you start, the NCR area is falling apart. I think the same would be true if she was severely ill, and leaving uncertain succession issues and the power up for grabs. But since I've had no positive feedback for this yet, she should probably just croak already.

No. Just, don't... The Brotherhood of Steel have always been the secluded guardians of technology, they wouldn't start giving away tech unless they had to. Even though they helped build NCR, sharing a lot of tech would be bad for continuity. Only the absolute minimum would have been given to NCR.

You're right, I realized I was stretching a little with this- but not all that important because this would never be mentioned in the hypothetical game, and just served as another part of the framing backstory. And because they did help NCR, even for a little bit, they filled the role I was describing.

No. This is too(WAY too) reminiscent of FO2. Think about it, the only difference is that the Enclave actually was the government. This is just the FO2 endgame, but not on an oil tanker. And stop with the nukes already.

The nukes were a joke- but ok, I'll stop mentioning them. And you're absolutely right about the Enclave similarity- we should throw the world domination/ extermination thing out. But I want to keep the offbeat community, propaganda videos, and the player capture probing thing (the whole UFO paranoia thing). I also think that this population should be closer to 50s society than anything we've seen in Fallout before in style, dialogue and behavior- perhaps due to the conservative military establishment back then.

The problem is how to end it. You go one way with the mutant led army sweeping west, and it's too much like FO1, but w/o the originality of the Master's character. You go the other way, like what I first said, and but then it becomes too much like FO2. But it has to be important enough for the player to give a damn. The easy solutions would be threatening the world, and threatening the player. The former would have been done already, and the latter would have been done all game. Would it be likely for the player to care enough about the population to feel satisfied with simply saving it and having the game end? I doubt it.

I want to hold on to the idea that this population turns out to be the enemy despite the fact that you were trying to save them. Maybe their motives are not so direct. But rather, it's their way of life that is damaging. Before you find the Area 51 installation, there could be a host of problems originating from there. They could be kidnapping people and performing gory scientific experiments on them like it was everyday behavior. Their base could be dumping toxic waste and polluting everything within hundreds of miles. And they send robots to steal everyone else's brahmin for food, causing communities to blame each other and fight. (maybe mutilating leaving the skin, and starting up some weird rumors I can see the field of cow bones and exploded flesh). Unfortunately, their leadership core or leader (hint- main bad guy) all don't give a shit, and the rest of the population is remarkably closed-minded, stubborn, and near devoid of reason. Plus they are preventing the player from leaving, lest he give them away (you find out that the earlier guy wasn't actually trying to get help- though the data on the Pipboy may have implied so- he was more trying the get the hell out of there). In order for the lower Nevada area to have any chance of surviving, you'd have to stop them any way you can.

 

[Sander]

Sure. But we still need a story reason for the player to hang around the area instead of taking the direct logical path. It's not too hard I guess- maybe its just a lot of people tell him/her to find help because its way too dangerous to go in that direction.

That's easy enough. You don't need a story reason, he starts off in a town, and gets more and more involved with the region. or not, if he chooses not to.

Having both is good, but then you would have to explain why half the population managed to get out while half is supposedly stuck. If the explanation is that they breached security long ago, then it would give it away to the player too early. I think they'd work better as independent communities.

That's not what I meant. WHat I meant was that there was a fissure after they all got out(robots need power too, suppose that the power went down), and that part of the group went off(and joined the mutant) and that the other group stayed and created a community.

If it is in mid game, and the guy was outgunned/unarmed, he'd be pretty easy to take out no matter what he was. Plus aren't all the ghouls ancient? I don't think they'd be ashamed for so long if it was reasonably intelligent (we haven't seen any idiot ghouls in the previous games i think).

He would be if he hadn't encountered other ghouls. And even if he had encountered other ghouls, you don't see Harold runnign around the Hub. He still is both ashamed and scared of what the people might do to him. It's a hostile world out there.

IMHO a low INT mutant would both be scary looking and unable to communicate properly- plus, he would be more threatening to the player, giving more of an incentive to kill him on a mistaken assumption.

True, but it wouldn't be as nice as a weaker ghoul. A weak ghoul would mean that you killed a practically defenseless creature, adding to the stupidity/evilness of your dead.
Also, the ghoul should be allowed a chance to explain--though it should be half-crazy(read below).(But if the player thinks "Screw him", then he can just soot away anyway. There should be an option to talk, though. And not talk like you talk to Torr)

And we can have the pre-vat dipping story on the data-disk, which I liked but I don't know if you guys did. We should continue to debate which one fits better.

THis could still have happened there, with some minor adjustments.
Adjustment one: Journal from pre-war.
Adjustment two: Ghoul went crazy from trauma of losing family and from looking like shit.

Well, when I was describing why the area prospered, I was talking background- it wasn't what I had in mind for the game. As I said later, when you start, the NCR area is falling apart. I think the same would be true if she was severely ill, and leaving uncertain succession issues and the power up for grabs. But since I've had no positive feedback for this yet, she should probably just croak already.

She should. It was extremely unlikely for her to be alive in the first place(She was 97 in a hostile, filthy post-nuclear war. Come on.)

You're right, I realized I was stretching a little with this- but not all that important because this would never be mentioned in the hypothetical game, and just served as another part of the framing backstory. And because they did help NCR, even for a little bit, they filled the role I was describing.

They filled the role, yes. I was just making clear that brotherhood tech should remain that: brotherhood tech.

The nukes were a joke- but ok, I'll stop mentioning them. And you're absolutely right about the Enclave similarity- we should throw the world domination/ extermination thing out. But I want to keep the offbeat community, propaganda videos, and the player capture probing thing (the whole UFO paranoia thing). I also think that this population should be closer to 50s society than anything we've seen in Fallout before in style, dialogue and behavior- perhaps due to the conservative military establishment back then.

That sounds good.

The problem is how to end it. You go one way with the mutant led army sweeping west, and it's too much like FO1, but w/o the originality of the Master's character. You go the other way, like what I first said, and but then it becomes too much like FO2. But it has to be important enough for the player to give a damn. The easy solutions would be threatening the world, and threatening the player. The former would have been done already, and the latter would have been done all game. Would it be likely for the player to care enough about the population to feel satisfied with simply saving it and having the game end? I doubt it.

That is all true. But the idea of having a Super MUtant thinking he's god and having it reinforced by others is still good, IMHO. Perhaps it can be toned down(remain limited to only a few villages), but in a way, you will have saved the world(Ehmm....California?) anyway. Personally, I feel that it should remain in the game, but perhaps it shouldn't be that important.

I want to hold on to the idea that this population turns out to be the enemy despite the fact that you were trying to save them. Maybe their motives are not so direct. But rather, it's their way of life that is damaging. Before you find the Area 51 installation, there could be a host of problems originating from there. They could be kidnapping people and performing gory scientific experiments on them like it was everyday behavior. Their base could be dumping toxic waste and polluting everything within hundreds of miles. And they send robots to steal everyone else's brahmin for food, causing communities to blame each other and fight. (maybe mutilating leaving the skin, and starting up some weird rumors I can see the field of cow bones and exploded flesh). Unfortunately, their leadership core or leader (hint- main bad guy) all don't give a shit, and the rest of the population is remarkably closed-minded, stubborn, and near devoid of reason. Plus they are preventing the player from leaving, lest he give them away (you find out that the earlier guy wasn't actually trying to get help- though the data on the Pipboy may have implied so- he was more trying the get the hell out of there). In order for the lower Nevada area to have any chance of surviving, you'd have to stop them any way you can.

Now that's actually a really good idea.
IN fact, if they are being threatened by that Super Mutant, if you kill the Super Mutant, you will have saved them, but doomed the world. Unless you stop them.
In fact, a good ending(for the more twisted people) would be for you to take control of that group. Come into power, so to speak. Hmmm, wait, more endings possible:

1) Kill Super Mutant guy, kill Area 51(Really good ending).
2) Kill Super Mutant guy, beceom Area 51 leader(ie. YOu rule as a dictator over that area).
3) Become leader(or sub-leader) of Super Mutant guy.(ie. You kill everyone and start realising the Master's dream...)
4) Leave Super Mutant guy alone, kill Area 51 leader(That area flourishes, while the world is threatened by a renewed Super Mutant threat).
5) Kill Super Mutant, but ignore Area 51(You saved the world, but doomed part of Nevada. Woohoo.)

I like this....

 

[Roshambo]

I tried to come up with some character and event designs that would both persist if the actors were changed and giving a bit more variety than the usual subset of Protect the Foozle and Kill-Ex quests. You could even, if the wasteland were nuked down a bit more in terms of setting and after Fo2, to have DeathClaws evolve naturally (well, without the Enclave's meddling, that is) into a semi-intelligent state, but still very dangerous. I say semi-intelligent, something like a dog's capability. What would be very odd is if the "boogeyman" was in fact a brooding DeathClaw mother who lost her clutch and, for unreasons unknown, get separated from the rest of the group and then decided instead to treat the children as part of her brood in a surragate mother fashion (which would be further odd, since I believe Jackson's Chameleons are hardly "pack" animals). Perhaps a drunkard's tale, scoffed at by the locals because they think it's just another drunk, is what would best substantiate the rumors and rhymes the kids would sing.

[Drunk is getting progressively drunker, taking frequent sips of the rotgut. You can almost imagine it eating a hole clean through his side at any moment, judging from how the fumes threaten to take your eyebrows off from three feet away. Or, that may just be his natural smell.] "I hears it a shulffin' aroun' 'ere at night...the breathin'...the schmell! Ish like rotten meat I get outta Netty's trash at the diner!* It don't do nuthin' but move around pasht the guardss and shniff at each door. I...I think it's a-waitin' to get one of us. One nigh...one night I was sleepin' by the mechanish' place...crazy bashtard tried to drop aaaaaa-CAR on me once! Anyways...anyways...it came by me...and put it's face at my throat. Now I don't wake up for nuthin' but I felt it's bite. It had me...I shcreamed like a little girl. The guardsh came, but by then...pfh...it ran off. They kick me and go. Yesh, it'sh just the town drunk havin' nighmares, go back to shleep and leave 'im be to bleed." [At this, the drunkard pulls down his shirt to reveal the marks.]

Then, ironically, if the village befriends the DeathClaw, the Mayor of the village stakes out a sign at the front of the village gates.

"Beware of Dog"

I digress, and while that would be a bit amusing to see, I still hold in reserve that DeathClaws should be mysterious terrors in the dark.

* - I could actually see a large scale version of this working. It would have armed guards, a lot of walled fields in the back, and they would sell food (and could make a killing, literally). Anyone who tried to hold it up was killed, and if someone did try to panhandle in there or beg, they were summarily drug off to the side and shot (or even better, forced into a sort of slavery for the farm). Woe be to the PC if they aren't too quick with the words and also fail to notice the same happening to others, and try to beg for food and clean water.

 

[Revolver]

That's not what I meant. WHat I meant was that there was a fissure after they all got out(robots need power too, suppose that the power went down), and that part of the group went off(and joined the mutant) and that the other group stayed and created a community.

I meant it would spoil the 'surprise' that the community really didn't need (or merit) saving after all. But definitely, both communities (mutant god and area 51) should be in regardless of whether they are related or not.

Boogeyman story

I guess I was thinking more of the whole 'Of Mice and Men' thing where the big clumsy oaf has completely harmless intentions but is misunderstood for his threatening size and strength (or course it didn't help that he ended up mistakenly killing someone, but thats besides the point). I still prefer Super Mutant, especially if he's going end up protecting the village afterwards, but ghoul could work too. If it was a semi intelligent deathclaw, I don't think the player could feel as much regret for offing it.

* - I could actually see a large scale version of this working. It would have armed guards, a lot of walled fields in the back, and they would sell food (and could make a killing, literally). Anyone who tried to hold it up was killed, and if someone did try to panhandle in there or beg, they were summarily drug off to the side and shot (or even better, forced into a sort of slavery for the farm). Woe be to the PC if they aren't too quick with the words and also fail to notice the same happening to others, and try to beg for food and clean water.

I'm confused about this part's relation with the boogieman story- maybe I'm reading it all wrong. But I think it would be nice to split this off into a different village where its more of a horror type story (which might of been what you were implying in the first place). Like at night, Deathclaws come and snatch people, and are the "terrors in the dark" that you were talking about. That way we could still have the town drunk describing how it all started and the armed guards controlling the food supply. The reason why all the brahmin and crops are walled off is because the deathclaws have been eating them. This unfortunate situation has led to the guards exploiting their food protection duties, and therefore shooting anyone who begs- however everyone's too afraid to leave b/c of the deathclaws. So there should be several ways to resolve this- kill/convince guards, or find some way to divert the deathclaw attacks, and allow the townspeople to leave or come back with help and drive away the guards.

But the idea of having a Super Mutant thinking he's god and having it reinforced by others is still good, IMHO.

I agree, which is why in a previous post, I set it as the story for the second largest city we find in the Nevada area, Henderson. Heck lets make it Vegas instead, if it's going to be involved in the ending. Henderson could be the area where they are complaining about both the Mutants and the unexplained abductions/mutilations. To be more interesting, the Super Mutant is drugged out like Rosh said, maybe on excess quantities of both psycho and mentats. Plus like I suggested earlier, the people in the community either choose to or are forced to disfigure themselves by wearing clamps on their faces, and regularly dip their heads in pools of radioactive material or something. They are currently in the process of mobilizing an army, for reasons unknown (really to take out the Area 51ers and then later, the rest of the area).

1) Kill Super Mutant guy, kill Area 51(Really good ending).
2) Kill Super Mutant guy, beceom Area 51 leader(ie. YOu rule as a dictator over that area).
3) Become leader(or sub-leader) of Super Mutant guy.(ie. You kill everyone and start realising the Master's dream...)
4) Leave Super Mutant guy alone, kill Area 51 leader(That area flourishes, while the world is threatened by a renewed Super Mutant threat).
5) Kill Super Mutant, but ignore Area 51(You saved the world, but doomed part of Nevada. Woohoo.)

Heh, thats a lot of ending movies (what about when you left the mutant alone, but became Area 51 leader?)- Ron Perlman would be pissed . So let's say you reach the Mutant cult first. You don't realize that they are the only thing keeping the Area 51ers in check. But there are subtle hints, like they've been destroying 'robots from the north.' You could either cut a deal, help, destroy, or ignore the cult before you move on, not knowing that your actions will impact the ending. Or if this doesn't work in execution, we could always treat these areas independantly, like before. But I don't think that going to Area 51 first and then coming back out to deal with mutant god would work too well- after all, one of the primary universal motivations to stop them is that you finally found the top secret base, and they won't let you leave. So more like FO2 style single ending place rather than FO1's 2 ending places.

 

[Sander]

Rosh: I don't think that a Deathclaw there would work, although the natural evolution of dog-like intelligence could work, Deathclaws should remain terrors; they should not be friendly intelligent monsters, as they were in FO2. As I've said before and somewhere else, the Deathclaws in FO1 scared the shit out of me and were incredibly tough, but in FO2 they were either intelligent, or too easy. And, even though they seemed to be created to take the place of Deathclaws, the Wanamingos didn't do it too well.

I meant it would spoil the 'surprise' that the community really didn't need (or merit) saving after all. But definitely, both communities (mutant god and area 51) should be in regardless of whether they are related or not.

Well....no. I don't think so. If you had the player encounter the village first(and only a bit of the Super Mutant's army), then he'd be surprised at the moment where he should be surprised: when he arrives there.
Havign the player encounter his original goal actually makes more sense, since that's how it was in FO1 as well(You first encountere Vault 15, with no Water Chip, then you encountered Necropolis, and got the Water Chip(your goal). While doing that, you'd have your first big encounter with Super Mutants(if you played it in the order it was meant to be played). Only after that would you encounter the big mutant bases).

I guess I was thinking more of the whole 'Of Mice and Men' thing where the big clumsy oaf has completely harmless intentions but is misunderstood for his threatening size and strength (or course it didn't help that he ended up mistakenly killing someone, but thats besides the point). I still prefer Super Mutant, especially if he's going end up protecting the village afterwards, but ghoul could work too. If it was a semi intelligent deathclaw, I don't think the player could feel as much regret for offing it.

Both Super Mutant and ghould would work, it's more about personal preference than decent reasons.

I'm confused about this part's relation with the boogieman story- maybe I'm reading it all wrong. But I think it would be nice to split this off into a different village where its more of a horror type story (which might of been what you were implying in the first place). Like at night, Deathclaws come and snatch people, and are the "terrors in the dark" that you were talking about. That way we could still have the town drunk describing how it all started and the armed guards controlling the food supply. The reason why all the brahmin and crops are walled off is because the deathclaws have been eating them. This unfortunate situation has led to the guards exploiting their food protection duties, and therefore shooting anyone who begs- however everyone's too afraid to leave b/c of the deathclaws. So there should be several ways to resolve this- kill/convince guards, or find some way to divert the deathclaw attacks, and allow the townspeople to leave or come back with help and drive away the guards.

INdeed, that part would be very good(really REALLy xenophobic and hostile community), but it should probably be in a seperate city.

I agree, which is why in a previous post, I set it as the story for the second largest city we find in the Nevada area, Henderson. Heck lets make it Vegas instead, if it's going to be involved in the ending. Henderson could be the area where they are complaining about both the Mutants and the unexplained abductions/mutilations. To be more interesting, the Super Mutant is drugged out like Rosh said, maybe on excess quantities of both psycho and mentats. Plus like I suggested earlier, the people in the community either choose to or are forced to disfigure themselves by wearing clamps on their faces, and regularly dip their heads in pools of radioactive material or something. They are currently in the process of mobilizing an army, for reasons unknown (really to take out the Area 51ers and then later, the rest of the area).

And to ultimately go take the Vats back....yes.

Heh, thats a lot of ending movies (what about when you left the mutant alone, but became Area 51 leader?)- Ron Perlman would be pissed . So let's say you reach the Mutant cult first. You don't realize that they are the only thing keeping the Area 51ers in check. But there are subtle hints, like they've been destroying 'robots from the north.' You could either cut a deal, help, destroy, or ignore the cult before you move on, not knowing that your actions will impact the ending. Or if this doesn't work in execution, we could always treat these areas independantly, like before. But I don't think that going to Area 51 first and then coming back out to deal with mutant god would work too well- after all, one of the primary universal motivations to stop them is that you finally found the top secret base, and they won't let you leave. So more like FO2 style single ending place rather than FO1's 2 ending places.

If we allow for an escape possibility(or several of them: Speaking, sneaking, digging, and possibly fighting), but make the community so strong that you wouldn't make fighting your way all the way through, then they would have to come back.
If you then go to the Super Mutant's church to get help(or get better at killing), then you can choose what to do. There's also the possibility of joining up with the Area 51 group when you see them, and then you'd encounter the Super Mutants anyway....