Playcircus
First time out of the vault
Section8 said:
So it is just like turn based combat.
Fallout 3 reviews round-up #6
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First time out of the vault
So it is just like turn based combat.
Multidirectional
Mildly Dipped
kikomiko said:
One might choose to hear only what he wants to hear..
Personally, I don't have that big of a problem with VATS. But ain't that far into the game of course. I may have a problem with combat in general, in that it is not turn-based, but that's an old song already. Implementation of FPS combat is amateurish though while turn based were done very well in the originals and it's much more boring without VATS. And if you are going to make Fallout into shooter, you should also make decent AI. AI totally sucks in Fallout 3. Of course it's not like I'm the first to mention it.
sonicmerlin
First time out of the vault
Ouch at PlayCircus's comment.
Has anyone here played Tales of Symphonia or any of the other Tales RPGs? I've always wished more RPGs would adopt such action-oriented combat. Fallout holds its own little special place in my heart, though, bless its radioactive and toxic nature.
Also Moving Target, I just saw your signature and I must say...do not dis the hats. The hats own your soul.
Has anyone here played Tales of Symphonia or any of the other Tales RPGs? I've always wished more RPGs would adopt such action-oriented combat. Fallout holds its own little special place in my heart, though, bless its radioactive and toxic nature.
Also Moving Target, I just saw your signature and I must say...do not dis the hats. The hats own your soul.
So far, I've decimated 3 raider camps, and I'm barely 3 hours into the game and level 6. I haven't gotten into any kind of trouble where I was having anything resembling a tough time.sonicmerlin said:
I don't feel like I"m getting stronger at all, and I have a sneaking suspicion that level scaling is much more prominent than they've let on.
Don't troll. Especially not when it's your only post.Playcircus said:
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Depends on what type of RPG your talking about. I think that there is a place for classic JRPG combat (ala Final Fantasy [excluding the new shit that isn't FF] and Dragon Quest), though they should continue to evolve as they have been, and action oriented combat (ala Tales [Phantasia had the most enjoyable of what I've played], Star Ocean, and Kingdom Hearts [really enjoy their gameplay in spite of the kiddy overtones]). TB games are also great but they are more like TRPGs (Disgaea and Final Fantasy Tactics) than traditional JRPGs and TB western RPGs are different still from TRPGs. Yes, I do want some action oriented western RPGs but there is a right and wrong way to go about it. FPSs and RPGs can be effectively mixed but I've yet to see combat stats be combined with FPS gameplay in an enjoyable manner.
sonicmerlin
First time out of the vault
What is TRPG?
Also, have you not played Deus Ex or Mass Effect?
Also, have you not played Deus Ex or Mass Effect?
Mass Effect's combat system was ridiculous. Because I didn't have assault rifle -skill, I couldn't even hit the barn-wall from the inside. But since I had good pistol-skill, I could hit enemies accurately from frigging far away. It made no sense in the FPS-world. I mean, sure, if my rifle skill sucks, I'm not gonna do any sniping but I should still be able to burst fire something next to me. And it doesn't matter if I'm frigging Wyatt Earp, pistols just are NOT that accurate over long such long distances.
And if someone is gonna say "Hey G, it was a space game man, they were special space pistols!" then if the pistol is so special, why isn't the shotgun, sniper rifle and assault rifle?
Haven't played Deus Ex. But there was nothing special or great about MA's battle system.
Heck, I didn't even finish the stupid game, got so bored and frustrated with the level of stupidity in there.
And if someone is gonna say "Hey G, it was a space game man, they were special space pistols!" then if the pistol is so special, why isn't the shotgun, sniper rifle and assault rifle?
Haven't played Deus Ex. But there was nothing special or great about MA's battle system.
Heck, I didn't even finish the stupid game, got so bored and frustrated with the level of stupidity in there.
sonicmerlin
First time out of the vault
Oh man, you have *got* to play Deus Ex. One of the all-time classics. For the love of all that is good, play it (even if you have to download it...).
Your criticisms of Mass Effect are a little subjective. What I mean is that those parameters could easily be adjusted. The undeveloped assault rifle skill circle could be made a little smaller, and the developed pistol skill circle a little wider. I don't know about the pistol though. It really made me feel like I was shooting for real, since I couldn't pinpoint aim as in a normal FPS.
The point is that the way "developing skill" was demonstrated and implemented in the game seemed to be pretty well-done.
Deus Ex had a shaky reticule. So as a beginner it shook a ton, at medium less, at advanced very little, and at master none. You could distribute your exp points according to however you wanted (like Fallout kind of), but getting to Master level for any skill required a ton of points.
Your criticisms of Mass Effect are a little subjective. What I mean is that those parameters could easily be adjusted. The undeveloped assault rifle skill circle could be made a little smaller, and the developed pistol skill circle a little wider. I don't know about the pistol though. It really made me feel like I was shooting for real, since I couldn't pinpoint aim as in a normal FPS.
The point is that the way "developing skill" was demonstrated and implemented in the game seemed to be pretty well-done.
Deus Ex had a shaky reticule. So as a beginner it shook a ton, at medium less, at advanced very little, and at master none. You could distribute your exp points according to however you wanted (like Fallout kind of), but getting to Master level for any skill required a ton of points.
UniversalWolf
eaten by a grue.
If Bethesda didn't want their game to be compared to Fallout 1 and 2, they should not have called it "Fallout 3". In fact, they should've come up with their own original name and setting. In that case no one would be comparing this game to Fallout 1 and 2. Problem solved.
This is especially true since they're obviously incapable of doing the name justice.
This is especially true since they're obviously incapable of doing the name justice.
Heres my bullet point review/annoyance/something:
- Residents in VAULT don't mind getting punched in the face. Will resume their daily chores after spending some nap time in a puddle of their own blood.
- Dialogue with some NPC's gets annoyed due to overly cheery high pitched voice acting/Overly abusive random insults
- Barkeep don't mind me finding my way to his bar through the backdoor by means of lockpicking for the first time.
- Weapons are everywhere and even with STR 3 i can carry a whole lot of weapons. Ammo is rather scarce so far.
- I can kill super mutants with a wooden baseball bat with my STR being 3 and my melee skill being somewhere around 16%
-There are explodable cars everywhere - usually so tightly packed in cities that they can cause a chain reaction to go on for over a minute.
-Locations don't really pull me in by being intresting in any way. Lots of computers here and there but nothings usable.
-Gibs gibs and gibs everywhere. Most headshots result in the same old head clean off death sequence.
- Cha-Ching! everytime you gain exp is annoying.
-Character animation is horrendous. Even the PC walks like his asscheeks are glued together.
-Every other person i meet in the wastes seem to shoot me on sight. Except for a group of brotherhood of steel soldiers. (Boy do they look like some sort of stormtroopers)
-Fighting raiders and other mobs can quickly get annoying because they cycle 3 different sentences ever 2 seconds and what they say isn't that interesting.
Im not sure im going to play much further... im in some sort of sewers doing something near megaton or something... it's really hard to maintain interest in these generic kill quests.
- Residents in VAULT don't mind getting punched in the face. Will resume their daily chores after spending some nap time in a puddle of their own blood.
- Dialogue with some NPC's gets annoyed due to overly cheery high pitched voice acting/Overly abusive random insults
- Barkeep don't mind me finding my way to his bar through the backdoor by means of lockpicking for the first time.
- Weapons are everywhere and even with STR 3 i can carry a whole lot of weapons. Ammo is rather scarce so far.
- I can kill super mutants with a wooden baseball bat with my STR being 3 and my melee skill being somewhere around 16%
-There are explodable cars everywhere - usually so tightly packed in cities that they can cause a chain reaction to go on for over a minute.
-Locations don't really pull me in by being intresting in any way. Lots of computers here and there but nothings usable.
-Gibs gibs and gibs everywhere. Most headshots result in the same old head clean off death sequence.
- Cha-Ching! everytime you gain exp is annoying.
-Character animation is horrendous. Even the PC walks like his asscheeks are glued together.
-Every other person i meet in the wastes seem to shoot me on sight. Except for a group of brotherhood of steel soldiers. (Boy do they look like some sort of stormtroopers)
-Fighting raiders and other mobs can quickly get annoying because they cycle 3 different sentences ever 2 seconds and what they say isn't that interesting.
Im not sure im going to play much further... im in some sort of sewers doing something near megaton or something... it's really hard to maintain interest in these generic kill quests.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Tactical Role-Playing Game. Wikipedia is your friend.sonicmerlin said:
Nope and I've read a lot of complaints about Mass Effect's combat so... Deus Ex is fairly universally praised and I'll get around to playing it eventually but, from what I hear, calling it an RPG is a stretch (which is probably why it's good).sonicmerlin said:
Nodder
It Wandered In From the Wastes
UniversalWolf said:
What if they turned it into a spin-off game? Fallout: Recon. Fallout Chronicles. Fallout Oblivion. Would fans be mollified? I doubt it, there will still be spitting and mewling because people don't want anyone but the original dev team handling the IP's setting and storyline.
Moving Target
Mildly Dipped
That's not entirely true. It's more correct to say that *some* people would be upset by a spin-off and only want to have the original dev team working on FO3... It's clearly impossible, and has been impossible since Troika was formed. Which makes those sorts of concerns of about the same magnitude as those very few who think that Interplay REALLY should have put in the effort for the GURPS license and never created SPECIAL.
If they turned it into a spin-off, as many others have said, more times than I care to count, there would be much less complaining. And with good reason: Spin-offs can be ignored, in terms of canon, and folks can always hold out hope that a third Fallout game (sequel, not spin-off) may come around and do the franchise justice. Bethsoft has now made that dream, however remote, an impossibility.
But let's stay on topic here. UW's point was that, if the game wasn't even considered part of the Fallout series, was in fact a different post-apocalyptic IP, no one would compare it to Fallout 1 and 2. Which is true. It probably would have gotten about the same amount of coverage as Hellgate: London.
This is a Fallout fan site. Why shouldn't people here care about how the franchise is handled? The old timers complained about the silly stuff in the originals; they saw Van Buren go down in flames and Herve destroy Interplay almost single-handedly.
If they turned it into a spin-off, as many others have said, more times than I care to count, there would be much less complaining. And with good reason: Spin-offs can be ignored, in terms of canon, and folks can always hold out hope that a third Fallout game (sequel, not spin-off) may come around and do the franchise justice. Bethsoft has now made that dream, however remote, an impossibility.
But let's stay on topic here. UW's point was that, if the game wasn't even considered part of the Fallout series, was in fact a different post-apocalyptic IP, no one would compare it to Fallout 1 and 2. Which is true. It probably would have gotten about the same amount of coverage as Hellgate: London.
This is a Fallout fan site. Why shouldn't people here care about how the franchise is handled? The old timers complained about the silly stuff in the originals; they saw Van Buren go down in flames and Herve destroy Interplay almost single-handedly.
Nodder
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Then why don't people just pretend that Fallout 3 is a spinoff? So if FO is ever returned to its roots the next instalment will have skipped a number (or two). Just pretend FO 3 is a non-canonical spinoff a la Brotherhood of Steel. You don't see people complaining about Star Control 3. They just ignore it and move on.
IP's are ephemeral. The franchise will return to its roots, even if it will take twenty or thirty years and has to pass from developer to developer like some sort of half-starved crackwhore. Video games aren't going away, the industry has a lot of unoriginality, there will be a Van Buren-styled Fallout inevitably. Considering how many remakes, series reboots, and sequels, eventually someone will make a FO that's true to form. The industry is simply too incestuous and self-cannibalizing about its ideas to think of any better ideas for games.
IP's are ephemeral. The franchise will return to its roots, even if it will take twenty or thirty years and has to pass from developer to developer like some sort of half-starved crackwhore. Video games aren't going away, the industry has a lot of unoriginality, there will be a Van Buren-styled Fallout inevitably. Considering how many remakes, series reboots, and sequels, eventually someone will make a FO that's true to form. The industry is simply too incestuous and self-cannibalizing about its ideas to think of any better ideas for games.
Unfortunately, I think you might be a bit overly optimistic.
But that's just my opinion, and I'm known as a bitter, hateful old man.
But that's just my opinion, and I'm known as a bitter, hateful old man.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Who? Bethesda has made it perfectly clear that they are happy with Fallout 3, will only make games their way (ie TES style), and plan to do something similar with Fallout 4. Bethesda isn't going to start developing classic Fallout games which they don't understand many if any of the principles behind. The only way that there is a shot in hell for a Fallout sequel to be made that's true to the series is if Bethesda sells the license which would likely require them to be in financial trouble. I'm not seeing that happen any time soon.Nodder said:
Why not pretend? Well why not pretend that the world is a perfect place with fairies, unicorns, and pink love fruit?
Nodder
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I'm not overly optimistic, I'm just young and so is the video gaming industry.
I really can't be bothered to care too much about bad turns for franchises. If a story is good enough, it will be picked up eventually. If Fallout really deserves its accolades, sooner or later- give or take a few decades- it will be remade. Or, there will be a spiritual successor to it. It's merely inevitable.
I really can't be bothered to care too much about bad turns for franchises. If a story is good enough, it will be picked up eventually. If Fallout really deserves its accolades, sooner or later- give or take a few decades- it will be remade. Or, there will be a spiritual successor to it. It's merely inevitable.
UncannyGarlic said:
It's NOT?
Nodder
It Wandered In From the Wastes
UncannyGarlic said:
Then wait a few decades until Bethesda goes out of business or sells the IP. No gaming company lasts forever. Except, perhaps, EA.
UncannyGarlic said:
I'm sure someone could have said the same thing about Interplay back in 1998.
Well, considering that video games are pretend already, it's not so much a stretch you know.