Fallout 3 worth waiting for

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
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Tom Chick argues on Fidgit that Fallout 3 is worth waiting for because it is (or could be) Oblivion with Guns.<Blockquote>For ten years, the vault has been closed on this grim and funny post-apocalyptic saga, which presented moral choices that would make GTA blanch. Soon you can open the doors again and plunge into your own personal post-apocalypse, with the faithful Dogmeat by your side. Think S.T.A.L.K.E.R., but more polished and less Russian.

As anyone who played one of the earliest Elder Scrolls games can tell you, Bethesda has been doing open worlds before they were even possible. Now the developer is marrying the beautiful expanse of Oblivion with the refreshingly unique setting of Fallout. Detractors – and there are entire websites teeming with them – dismiss Fallout 3 as Oblivion with guns. But the joke's on them. Who in his right mind wouldn't think that Oblivion with guns would be frickin' awesome?</blockquote>Link: 2008: The best of the rest of the year on Fidgit.

Spotted on F3:APNB.
 
Tom Chick said:
Detractors – and there are entire websites teeming with them – dismiss Fallout 3 as Oblivion with guns. But the joke's on them. Who in his right mind wouldn't think that Oblivion with guns would be frickin' awesome?

A lot of people who played Oblivion don't think Oblivion with Guns would be that awesome - considering how flawed Oblivion was.

But the really funny thing here is - our issue isn't that Oblivion with Guns sounds bad, it's that Fallout 3 being Oblivion with Guns sounds bad.

The point just soared over mr Chick's head, there.
 
The worst part for me is that I trust Tom Chick in most regards, his reviews on hex-based wargames are mostly on the mark and it was because of that that I was introduced to the excellent John Tiller wargames.

He must have suffered for a momentary lapse of reason, as far as I can recall this is the guy that hates swords and faeries RPGs. Doesn't make much sense to support both Fallout 3 and Oblivion in this case. As far as it goes, if his Oblivion Fallout 3 is truly the case then he'd just be playing the same game with a different setting.

Makes him sound like a lazy gamer, makes him sound like a hypocrite.
 
Heh, looking at the comments, seems he actually called Fallout "Bethesda's saga" before being correct.

Bethesda has the media in quite a vice-like grip, doesn't it? They dance to their beck and call.
 
Brother None said:
As anyone who played one of the earliest Elder Scrolls games can tell you, Bethesda has been doing open worlds before they were even possible.

Is he aware that Betrayal at Krondor was released a full year before Arena and was arguably even more expansive?
 
"Who in his right mind wouldn't think that Oblivion with guns would be frickin' awesome?" ....I'm sorry but all I get from that is a bad mod. Just a tricked out mod for Oblivion. Very linear and little choice. Who in his right mind would want to wait and pay for that?
 
Eyenixon said:
Brother None said:
As anyone who played one of the earliest Elder Scrolls games can tell you, Bethesda has been doing open worlds before they were even possible.

Is he aware that Betrayal at Krondor was released a full year before Arena and was arguably even more expansive?

Betrayal at Krondor is one of my favorite games...



...its not even close to an open world game.
 
Tom Chick said:
Who in his right mind wouldn't think that Oblivion with guns would be frickin' awesome?
People who hate Oblivion?

But yeah, I don't want to play a total conversion of Oblivion, I want to play a real Fallout game, and in a lot of ways Fallout 3 doesn't look like it's going to deliver.
 
As anyone who played one of the earliest Elder Scrolls games can tell you, Bethesda has been doing open worlds before they were even possible.

Daggerfall was a good first try, but since then, for the past 12 years they've been going backwards.
 
I give them the first laugh, bet let's see who's lauhing in the end, when at least a few people will say that Fallout 3 was bland and so on, and i think this will happen, as it did with Oblivion...
And maybe the joke will then also be on the ones who praised Fallout 3 like it was a new Messiahs...

But only time will tell on who the joke will have been.
 
Autoduel76 said:
Eyenixon said:
Brother None said:
As anyone who played one of the earliest Elder Scrolls games can tell you, Bethesda has been doing open worlds before they were even possible.

Is he aware that Betrayal at Krondor was released a full year before Arena and was arguably even more expansive?

Betrayal at Krondor is one of my favorite games...



...its not even close to an open world game.

I disagree, it's not open world in the manner that The Elder Scrolls games present it, but it's open world in the way most CRPGs do. You were restricted to story characters but there was a lot to do in the world and it was essentially quite large.
 
Eyenixon said:
Autoduel76 said:
Eyenixon said:
Brother None said:
As anyone who played one of the earliest Elder Scrolls games can tell you, Bethesda has been doing open worlds before they were even possible.

Is he aware that Betrayal at Krondor was released a full year before Arena and was arguably even more expansive?

Betrayal at Krondor is one of my favorite games...



...its not even close to an open world game.

I disagree, it's not open world in the manner that The Elder Scrolls games present it, but it's open world in the way most CRPGs do. You were restricted to story characters but there was a lot to do in the world and it was essentially quite large.

It's not open world in any sense of the word. You can't do anything , out of sequence. You are not only restricted to story characters, but you are heavily restricted in what is availiable to do by the fact that the game is played out in chapters. You can't do many quests until you get to the chapter they are availiable and if you skip some of them you can't go back and do them later.

Betrayal at Krondor is the RPG equivilent of playing a linear game with set levels.

BAK is a great game, IMO. As I said, one of my favorites. I've played through it many times. But its the total opposite end of the spectrum than an open world game. Its far more restrictive in terms of freedom than most CRPGs that pre-dated it, in fact.

It did what it was trying to do very well, which was tell a very cohesive and involved narrative (which is actually something the vast majority of CRPGs fail at and I wish would do much better). But it's the antithesis of an open world RPG.
 
I disagree with what was said in regards to open worlds. Thats complete, and total bullshit. You have been able to move around in a world freely ever since the first map editor. How come all these "journalists" on these sites seem like they haven't even played Wolfenstein or a game that is responsible for drastic changes in the industry?
 
i have played all the ultimas after 3, and outside of 8 and 9, you could backtrack without issue.

even in 7.5 you could backtrack. of course the main plot was only advanced in certian ways, but it was still pretty open imo
 
As anyone who played one of the earliest Elder Scrolls games can tell you, Bethesda has been doing open worlds before they were even possible.

Bethesda has been making boring games, since before everyone else was making boring games too. I bought and played Arena back in 1993(?) when it was first released. I found it mind-numbingly tedious. The only way Bethesda manages to make those huge game worlds is by re-using the same generic content, over and over and over again. Within a few hours of playing a Bethesda game, a normal person starts wondering why they should bother to explore any new areas, because they will be exactly like a dozen areas they've seen before. Same terrain, same critters, same NPC, same dialog, same loot. Sure, somebody who is easliy amused can play a Bethesda game for years and never do everything they could possibly do, but how sad would that be? And as far as story lines (the great strength of Fallout) - Betehsda games come up nil. Most of their "story" is only an illusion. They drop hints all over the place, alluding to mysteries that never get resolved. I don't want to play a Fallout game where there are notes and books laying around all over the place talking a lot fo blah blah blah that isn't even in the game at all. Prtending taht there is a reason why s-and-so is holed up in a cave conducting dangerous and illegal experiments isn't teh same as PROVIDING a story-basded a reason. It's all just btoo random and arbitrary, the way Bethesda does things. Their version of "story" is just a glorified shooter. And I do believe that the fans of Bethesda games are people who like action games, not RPG fans.

That said, Bethesda games aren't complete junk. I enjoyed Oblivion for a couple weeks when it came out... mainly by playing with teh edieter to see what I could do to spice things up. But Bethesda has never made a "classic" game, and I was kinda crushed when I heard Bethesda had picked up the Fallouty franchise. But then again, who even makes RPGs for the PC anymore? Bioware (and associates) and Bethesda, right? Bioware used to make fun games, but that was 10 years ago. It's a coin toss now, who I'd rather have making Fallout 3, so... whatever. I'm just glad it is getting made at all.

Tom Chick talking about how things used to be (according to his recollection!) has gotten me kind of nostalgic. RPGs were a hell of a lot more fun (and challenging!) during teh late 1980s and early 1990s than they are now. And longer, too! It used to take hundreds of hours to complete an RPG. It takes 20 or 30 hours to mcomplete most RPGs made these days. And developers invest so much time and effort into "eye candy" and bells and whistles now that they can't be bothered to provide much in teh way of content. How many "important" NPCs are there in the average RPG nowadays? 10 oe 12? Not talking about generic but critical quest givers here, I mean NPCs that really add something to the game. How many impoortant BPCs in one of the old Might & Magic games? Or the old Ultimas? And speaking of Betrayal at Krondor... that was a truly classic game. And it was released in 1992, same year as Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld, Wizardry 7, etc. A lot of great games came out that year. And Bethesda cleverly realeased their mediocre "Arena" the next year, against no competition, since that was the first year of an RPG drought that didn't end until Fallout, Baldur's Gate and Might & Magic 6 came out in 1998.

I'd say we have been in another RPG drought that began in 1999, except people are releasing RPGs. They just aren't very good ones. Lets all just hope that somebody discovers the lost art of the CRPG before everyone forgets they ever existed at all. The mediocre products we've been getting of late are surely not winning over many new fans. Although Bethesda seems to be doing fine with whatever demographic it is serving. Bioware too... although Bioware seems to be making games for little kids and retards these days. I feel like a spectator when I'm playing any Bioware game since NWN. Good thing the combat is so easy that I still win, even when I'm not sitting in front of my computer, eh? :O

Just to be fair, teh combat in Fallout always needed work. And that is one thing Bethesda DOES know how to do well. So, whatver it's not, Fallout 3 probably will be a good tactical combat game.

PS-Those screenshots really do look a lot like Oblivion. All dark and dreary and rendomly generated landscapes, as far as the eye can see... which isn't far. Dark and dreary suits Fallout, luckily.
 
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