Fallout and Bethesda

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

It's great when a spineless apologist jumps into a forum without any idea of what they are getting into. Maybe I should post that certain Flash movie again for the educational benefit of this fellow.

To save you some trouble....

 

[jr.]

Todd is the executive producer for both Oblivion and
Fallout 3.

that's more worrying to me than if a developer said what he said, Todd being the executive producer and all. appreciate that you're actually trying cool things down and calm the fans' fears, though. hopefully Todd is alot more with it now.

Why the fuck should they please you? You're just a whinger.

because he's a target potential customer, you retarded prat. people with your "let's dismiss the fanbase if it doesn't kiss our ass" midset are the reason classic game franchises get turned to shit and classic game companies get ruined. the only thing that cheapens a Fallout fan's 'position' on this is if they have an empty wallet, because Bethesda is a business that runs on money, not hugs and kisses.

All this violent and sometimes incoherant raving is not doing anyone any favours

it's an enormous favour to both Fallout fans and Bethesda to clearly and with no uncertainty show where the majority of the fanbase stands on this, because i don't think Bethesda honestly wants to alienate them.

Bethesda are far
more inclined to listen to people who're polite (doesn't mean suckup)

they haven't shown themselves to be the lot of worthless pussies that you're making them out to be, there, so fuck you. call me crazy, but i have faith that they're professional enough to recognize helpful criticism or a good idea no matter who it comes from and in what way.

Right now I wouldn't be surprised if the feeling at bethesda goes something like this "Who cares what
they think? Anything we suggest short of giving development over to troika is going to please them"
and they'd be half right.

they'd be 100% wrong. the myth that Fallout fans are impossible to please is nothing but the methed that incompetent, whiny hacks use to make themselves the victims when they botch Fallout. or the method that apologists use to justify a bunch of incompetent, whiny hacks botching Fallout. why can't this "it's all the fans' fault" bullshit stay buried right alongside the Interplay forums? it wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. the only purpose digging it up again serves is to draw parrallels to the situation when FO:BoS was being made, and that doesn't help the fanbase and it sure as fuck doesn't help Bethesda. so thanks alot for the service, asshole.

 

[PsychoSniper]

Heh

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

Ill put this into a mathematical formula...

(The Nay-Sayer + FireWolf) x (Rosh + jr.) = OWNED

 

[FireWolf]

I'm not defending bethesda in any way shape or form, their previous titles have been, in my opinion, graphic novels with all the depth of a puddle in the sahara. But since there's no development team, no lead designer, as we're lead to believe I give very little credit to a console snippet which doesn't even quote the individual. As far as I can read from the section its simple speculation and explaination from the magazine. Speculation based on speculation hardly accounts for bible truth here, does it?

The intensity of feeling of the fallout community is inspiring and they really are a resource to any developer hoping to make a proper Fallout title, I just feel that they're more likely to listen to us and what we have to say if we're emphatic without being rabid. They're more likely to listen to reasoned arguments as opposed to half-legible ranting. We've been screwed over before with fallout titles, first with FoT and then with BoS and I can understand why you can expect it again. I sincerely hope we don't face this a third time around.

All I suggest is that instead of calling someone an ass whore or the like some kind of response that relise more on reason than expletatives is more likely to be given due considderation.

 

[Roshambo]

FireWolf, it's quite obvious at this point you didn't really pay attention to what went on with FOT or FOS, and you seem to be the same brand of anal polyp as The Nay-Sayer. Or maybe you were too oblivious to what happened when the fans just smiled and nodded, and how Fo2 almost turned into a disaster.

So, if the fans don't speak out about questionable things the EXECUTIVE PRODUCER is talking about, to make sure he's on track, then what would you suggest? Be warm and campy and of a cheerful sort that just screams to be begged to be raped up the ass again, while smiling, especially when one of the people in charge of said title's production is starting to sound like another Chuck Cuevas?

But since there's no development team, no lead designer, as we're lead to believe I give very little credit to a console snippet which doesn't even quote the individual.

Funny, if Bethesda didn't relay that information, then they'd be announcing corrections. Where are they? All we have is the words of an EXECUTIVE PRODUCER who is too busy proving that his understanding of Fallout is substantially less than those who have followed the titles extensively, and the PR guy trying to play damage control because of that. Now, if you don't know what an executive producer's job is, which I can easily tell that you don't else you'd be singing a different tune, I'd suggest you educate yourself about the job rather quickly.

So, in short, get a clue or hang up the browser, please.

 

[Macaco]

Okay, it's true personal attacks don't add anything to the discussion, i've even edited my first post to reflect this, i was kinda pissed when i wrote it.

:arrow: Point one:

Because we're the fans, and we're the only sure source of income they'll have

You usually make good points Brady, but this is just stupid. Bethesda wouldn't touch the license with a ten foot pole if all their expected sales were for the fanbase. Sales are a total different matter to quality, of course a good game is easier to sell, and will keep selling, but i digress. The point is, the biggest reason they have to listen to us, is to make a good game, and loyal to the franchise. That would not only make the marketing department happy (Reviews are a strong point in sales, despite the fact that reviewrs are often retarded and "buyable"), but i'm sure it would also make the (for now not existing) devs happy to make a good game.

:arrow: Point two: We only speculate so much (and eventually get pissed at our own speculations) because there's so little to go on. It's obvious that when hard information gets here, there will be less speculation, even if only because there will be less Ground for speculating.

:arrow: Point three: Nay sayer seems to have a honest (if misguided) opinion, he's just being a retard on expressing it. Firewolf on the other hand is just a retard (well, a nice retard, is that better?)

(i do realize the second paragraph is quite long and the third one is a freaking mess, but i'm pretty happy with the last )

 

[Briosafreak]

Firewolf is a nice guy, not a retard, but i still can`t find a way of agreeing with him.

 

[Roshambo]

:arrow: Point one:

Close, but not quite.

Here's how it works. Impulse sales count for a bit of the total overall sales, but lately with the industry turning into mostly crap, buyers are trying to become better informed. (Impulse sales also happen mostly around the holidays, where grandma picking up a gift for a child is considered an impulse sale.) Therefore, people will take a look at news sites covering the game, especially if those news sites have been around and have an integral position to the Fallout fan base. It stands to reason that with our longevity, if people have looked up Fallout on the internet, they would have known of DAC and NMA quite well by now. Especially given how a true Fallout RPG hasn't been released in over 5 years and we're still around. That says a LOT.

After that, it depends on how the fan base receives the game. If they are pleased, then word of mouth spreads into tertiary connections.

Bradylama, while sometimes coming up with incorrect points, does have it right here. When the core fan base is not behind a game, it will sink. UXO, Ultima, X-COM, Fallout, Might and Magic, etc. When the fans aren't favorable of a game, they will in fact take it down to a certain degree. It's really not their fault, as they are expecting a sequel and not a spin-off, and their reaction is purely a natural one. Any hype after that carries it so far, but not far enough.

:arrow: Point two: We only speculate so much (and eventually get pissed at our own speculations) because there's so little to go on. It's obvious that when hard information gets here, there will be less speculation, even if only because there will be less Ground for speculating.

Speculation happens in every game following. The fans go by what they have to go by. I should dredge up some of the things said about UXO, when it was clear that the retards involved with it didn't want to stick with the Ultima setting. The fans didn't like it, UO didn't have enough steam to push another sad rehashing of the same concept (however good the concept was at start), and the real-world event for the fans to come and learn more about UXO was quite pathetic. Even by RL UO event standards.

What we've seen so far has given many of us enough to really pull on the brakes and ask what the hell is going on. There's been some really doubtful information given, which hasn't been contested yet by a Bethesda source, and which is printed in a gaming mag. If what is said in the mag is true, then I believe someone needs to stow the bullshit and explain, because that doesn't quite match the setting of Fallout.

Oh, yeah, but they aren't commenting because there's no devs to comment.

 

[MvD]

They don't have to do shit, they certainly don't have to consider the views of a bunch of rabid fans. If they have think that their own version of fallout (as opposed to a fan-view based one) will be more profitable, they have all the rights to make their own RTS or even FPS Fallout.

Why thank you, Captain Obvious. Question time!!

In the event that they don't care about us, why should we care about them?

They can make a game they like but that we don't, sure. Doesn't mean we have to like it. Understand?

Yes, of course! Umm, what was the point of telling me this?

 

[Macaco]

When the core fan base is not behind a game, it will sink.

That's because usually, when the fan base left the game, it's a good sign that the game is crap. What i'm trying to say is, suppose they make a lovely "first-person thinker" with rpg elements and call it fallout 3. It's not truly Fallout 3, but it's a great game all the press loves it, gamespy gives a editor's choice, gamespot gives a 9.2, etc.... Do you think us "not being behind" the game would hurt much? I know it's a sad prospect, but it's true, at least as far as i see it;

 

[Roshambo]

Do you think us "not being behind" the game would hurt much? I know it's a sad prospect, but it's true, at least as far as i see it;

I'd hate to burst anyone's bubble, but hype only carries a game so far. See the example of FOT. The largest amount of pre-orders to date, but once the fans found out it wasn't as advertised, it went quickly downhill. Much like FOS. Word of mouth is the true power in the game industry, as people are more than willing to trust a friend or someone they trust than the cattle punching words into the gaming rag's word processor. Many sales are also averted by someone talking about getting it, and then their friend talks them out of it or into something else. And when your major fan sites don't support the title, then that says a LOT to those who follow the series.

Add Master of Orin 3 to that list.

 

[Macaco]

I'm not talking about hype. I'm saying the game is released, and is quite good, but *our* fears came through, it's first person, it's RT, etc... But for those that don't care as much as us about fallout, it's a great game. It gets great reviews, the whole media is saying the game is great, except for the handful of fan sites. Of course we would put a dent in their sale figures, but in no way a big enough dent to break the game.

Also, I think both FOT and MOO3 are poor examples, at least as far as this discussion goes. Both those games never had much appeal beyond their fanbases, and what i'm supposing here is a game that has a broader appeal, but displeases the fanbase.

 

[The Vault Dweller]

I have to agree with Roshambo...I cant think of a decent game Ive played that WASNT referred to me by a friend...the few games that werent referred by friends I only bought 'cause they were cheap and they turned out to be crap.

I mean word of mouth is how I first found Fallout to begin with...

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[Roshambo]

(Snip.)

Ultima 8, Ultima 9, UXO. X-COM: Apocalypse, X-COM: Interceptor, X-COM: em@il Games, X-COM: Enforcer. I think I had mentioned them before, and merely included FOT and MOO3 because they are apropos to this discussion. I also don't know where you pulled the following line...

Both those games never had much appeal beyond their fanbases, and what i'm supposing here is a game that has a broader appeal, but displeases the fanbase.

...but I had already pointed out that FOT had the largest number of pre-orders from the Interplay online store to date. That means it had attracted a substantial amount of interest that wasn't wholly the fanbase. Then I could also point out how many news sites, many major and especially those considered a reliable source, seem to get a fire up their ass whenever major Fallout news is bouncing around. I could also point out that this title gets Slashdot notice. The same goes for MOO3, as the audience for space sims considers the original to be quite noteworthy. I don't know why you posted your above quantification, but it doesn't really work.

Also check release dates of other titles Interplay had released previous, and figure out why that is so significant.

Then there's LucasArts, who is offering less to the market because every lame-ass attempt of theirs to shovel out rehashed shit isn't felt well, so they are leery of reeleasing more "risky" titles than Jedi Ad Nauseum 10. Which in turn just makes the fans even more pissed at them, and LucasArts is blissfully clueless about it.

Enough said.

 

[PsychoSniper]

Thats a good point Rosh.

For example, theyve not botherd to update their Xwing series of flight sims, which were quite fun, and with the capabilites of current systems such a game could be done real well.


But Lucas arts is more intersted in simple console games where you play the story, then the games over, rather than a PC game that can recive custom missions. An example would be their shutting down mods of some of their games.

 

[Lady Ronin]

I have to say, the games I bought and love... were recommended.

Of the games I bought without a recommendation... I like 2.... the rest... well they are either ok... or awful.

Hence I stopped buying on my own... I go by recommendation. Just like I will with FO3. I want to know what a person who loves Fallout ITSELF thinks of the game.