Fallout Apocrypha - By Chris Avellone

Gizmojunk said:
I cannot imagine Interplay not having them as contract/ work for hire, where Interplay would own the IP 100% even if the team invented the entire setting, the writing, and all of the assets.
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Apparently, it seems like Interplay only owned the Fallout rights due to a "technicality". At least that's what Leonard Boyarsky said in an interview here on NMA:
Leonard Boyarsky said:
Q: How did you feel when you knew that you lost the race for the Fallout license?

A: Like someone kicked me in the nuts and then kidnapped one of my daughters. Okay, maybe that’s a bit too harsh, but I was upset. As I said in a previous interview (on DAC), we always felt like Fallout was ours, and it was just a technicality that Interplay owned it. I always thought we’d end up working on it again, and when the opportunity seemed to present itself again, I got overexcited and figured the universe was realigning itself to deliver Fallout back to us. Sadly for us, it looks like we won’t be getting the opportunity to further the Fallout universe in line with our original vision.
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That's the thing though, when one is on staff work for hire, the technicality is that they did the work [for hire] instead of the owner.

Technically HP owned the Apple 1, because Steve Wozniak was an HP engineer at the time he invented it. He had to offer it to them first; they refused for lack of vision, and Apple was created.

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This one's sad, but legal.

Jack Kirby Marvel Characters Were Works Made for Hire: Second Circuit

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Eumesmopo said:
So, yeah, he also agrees that the writing and roleplaying are worse in the Bethesda games, but thinks the series could have fallen in the hands of someone worse.

In my opinion, it could have just as well fallen into the hands the hands of someone better though.
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I don't think anyone else could have made it worse (not even EA, Activision or any of the greedy companies) because Bethesda's take on it is borderline parody and it completely misses the point of the series. And anything worse would be just whatever because Bethesda did such a piss poor job.

It's like making a car that can't do anything, but someone else makes the same car but it has no doors. Like, the car already doesn't work, making it worse doesn't do anything because the car doesn't work anyway.

I would have taken the chance of the franchise dying and down the line maybe someone that gave a shit about the franchise could at least make something at the very least decent out of it. Atom RPG and Underrail are pretty solid games and are much more Fallout than any of the Bethesda crap, so there are companies out there that care about roleplaying elements and quest design that goes beyond "kill this or get this and you get a reward".
 
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Norzan said:
Bethesda's take on it is borderline parody and it completely misses the point of the series.
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I have never believed this to be unintentional; always interpreting it as a deliberate revision for sake of a simpler elevator pitch. It is [sadly] far easier to conceptualize [and easier to sell] a future obsessed with the fifties, than a fifties prediction of the future.
 
Lexx said:
At this point it's safe to say we know more about this game than they do.
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Proletären said:
Yet somehow we still hope for some undisclosed knowledge from these guys.
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Lexx said:
and we are the ones who need to accept that many of them have moved on a long time ago. :>
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Lexx said:
I guess at this point it's just nice to see them talking about it. Doesn't really matter if it's stuff we've heard a hundred times already.
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The way I see it, at this point we ought to be on the exact same level on them to actually get the conversation *anywhere*. Not saying that we should, but if we could at least have a taste of their own personal experience, maybe then we can get through to them.

Imagine VD and/or Styg sitting with these guys, holding a list of questions asked by the community, but the asking is filtered through either one of those two, who has solid experience in developing games themselves. VD/Styg might be able to get the answers we truly need, even if we don't really want them in the end. You know, seek and ye shall find, not that you'll know what you actually find until you found it.
 
Reading through this stuff by Chris is very interesting. He mentions a good point about the motorcycle and horses. Why include cool scenery with them if you can't control or interact with them? While it's nice to see it will subconsciously remind the player they can't use it and ultimately be a negative experience. Wish they could have used the horses from Oblivion in NV. I guess that would have required a larger map size however and the consoles and their limited memory already held the game back.
 
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JellyJman said:
Reading through this stuff by Chris is very interesting. He mentions a good point about the motorcycle and horses. Why include cool scenery with them if you can't control or interact with them? While it's nice to see it will subconsciously remind the player they can't use it and ultimately be a negative experience. Wish they could have used the horses from Oblivion in NV. I guess that would have required a larger map size however and the consoles and their limited memory already held the game back.
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Personally I like the little touch that horses are extinct. All too often it feels like not much has really been lost form the Great War aside from some of the superficial trappings of civilization.
 
Norzan said:
I genuinely cringed when Chris was talking about both the positives and negatives of Fallout 3. He just mentions a bunch of minor shit that hardly matter in the end (like Dogmeat being able to fetch stuff). He doesn't talk about world building, writing, quest design and dungeon design. And just passively mentions that Fallout 1/2 had apparently some "useless" skills but forgets that Fallout 3 also had useless skills (it's worthless to invest into Speech for example).

It just reeks him trying to avoid pissing off Bethesda for some reason (a person in the comments said the same exact thing).

And yes, Bethesda "keeping the franchise alive" and bringing it into the mainstream was not a good thing. Fallout should have stayed a nice product and i don't care how elitist or gatekeeping that sounds.
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I think the phrase 'silence is worth a thousand words' comes into play here. He's tiptoeing around it. He's frank that he didn't play F4 or f76, but might have to be a bit conscious of what he says because to me, it smells like Bethesda might throw them a new game to make down the road. Even if he swears he won't work on it, doesn't mean it's good to badmouth a potential future partner. Bethesda has Starfield and TES6 coming up, perfect time to throw Fallout to someone else for another spell.

In which case I'm fine with him not splurging hate or disdain of f3 or whatever. We already do that. RPGcodex does it. He doesn't need to throw his hat into that 16+ year old ring.
 
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Eshanas said:
it smells like Bethesda might throw them a new game to make down the road.
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Yeah, the same man that at this point has his career pretty much dead or nigh impossible to ressurect. And that is if he wins the lawsuit.

I wasn't asking him to go for full nerd rage and basically scream that the game is trash. I was just expecting something substantive than the crap he said.

And last, he claimed in a tweet that he's not gonna work in another Fallout ever again. So, what does he gain here? Bethesda is not gonna ask him to come help them make a non-Fallout game they are working on (Emil is pretty much the lead writer and designer at Bethesda at this point), and he just admitted that he won't work any new Fallout game ever again.
 
TorontoReign said:
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Ask Chris if they have consulted with him about the TV show.
While @Norzan is busy working out I will be watching shitty b movies since my back is fucked. That is why Fallout the TV show is pretty much the best news I have heard with the series in years. But nah go watch shitty Youtube Nuka Break and fawn all over that crap. *spits*
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I actually liked it, it was fun
 
I'm glad the creator himself hasn't played fallout 4, gave up after the power armor and deathclaw fight and haven't looked back. I actually got downvoted to hell after mentioning fallout 4 being bland and purposeless back when it was first released. First and last day on reddit what a crap forum.
 
Reddit is fine if you don't go where all the fanboys hang out. Fanboys are OCD ridden freaks that have no real life so they attach to a fake one.
 
DID YOU PLAY FALLOUT 4

About 3 hours, then quit over a level design/encounter issue and haven’t gone back.
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RIP.

I'll never understand why Odd Howard chooses not to consult with the interplay folks. I feel like their quest for high sales numbers could better be accomplished with good story and level design.
 
Black_Electric said:
I'll never understand why Odd Howard chooses not to consult with the interplay folks. I feel like their quest for high sales numbers could better be accomplished with good story and level design.
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I doubt it. Over the years (and even now) I have seen many people say that FO3 world design and story/writing (yes story and/or writing) are better than the FNV ones.

If they made those things be in the style of classic Fallouts, they wouldn't have sold as much. Their players would say that they're not very good.

We have to accept that a large part of their players want things simple and "cool", instead of deep and making sense. It's weird, but it's also true.

Bethesda is actually quite good at knowing its target audience.
 
Feday Of Madness said:
I'm glad the creator himself hasn't played fallout 4, gave up after the power armor and deathclaw fight and haven't looked back. I actually got downvoted to hell after mentioning fallout 4 being bland and purposeless back when it was first released. First and last day on reddit what a crap forum.
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Count yourself lucky for just being downvoted and not being shadow banned. And losing 6 years account in the process. Yes, being shadow banned means it affect all over reddit, people don't see your comment and your entire history of post, comments prior are also deleted.
 
eissa said:
Count yourself lucky for just being downvoted and not being shadow banned. And losing 6 years account in the process. Yes, being shadow banned means it affect all over reddit, people don't see your comment and your entire history of post, comments prior are also deleted.
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I don't see that as a problem since I've been banned in every community I've made or been in. A place like reddit seemed like a goldmine but turned out quite abnoxius and superficial. As caesar says it "what a waste of fucking time"
 
Risewild said:
Bethesda is actually quite good at knowing its target audience.
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Not arguing with you there, they definitely know how to broaden their audience. I just think that can be accomplished whilst also delivering on good story writing and not just throwing dancing emotes and legendary gear at everything.
 
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