Fallout in Second Life

[Sander]

You have to understand how lawyers think. Zenimax is a business, and it's lawyers are paid to keep it's IP safe.
It doesn't matter if someone's charging 1 penny for Fallout related goods, they have to act on principle.
Imagine if someone starts selling Fallout related stuff in such a way that threatens Bethesda's IP. Zenimax will act against them, but then they can point out that they let this SL incident slip by and cause hassle in court.
Not that this might ever happen, but lawyers don't take chances.

Actually, if they'd let this slip then Gluttoncreeper would have had a valid opening to pursue in court, by saying that they knowingly allowed Jubal to use the Fallout IP in a commercial venture without any form of licensing.

 

[Pietro Moskvitch]

Okay, Ziltoid, that's a valid argument. The stuff about IP right forfeiture is not. Companies are free to selectively enforce their own IP rights no matter what, and while a failure to attempt to enforce something can be brought up in court, it can hardly be used as a precedent without ever having entered a court of law. Regardless, assuming Zenimax's response(s) to Jubal are less than fabourable (assuming he emails them or writes them a letter at all, it's his call to make), the community on SecondLife is already encouraging him to simply give away his creations and ask for donations rather than requiring them. I for one would donate, even though I don't own any of his Fallout-based gear.

Edit:
Wait, wait. I responded without really knowing what you were referring to. Still not a valid argument. They can tell one person "You can't use it" and still not tell the same thing to another person, it's their perogative to do so.

 

[Sander]

Okay, Ziltoid, that's a valid argument. The stuff about IP right forfeiture is not. Companies are free to selectively enforce their own IP rights no matter what, and while a failure to attempt to enforce something can be brought up in court, it can hardly be used as a precedent without ever having entered a court of law.

Please cite your sources, because in every single case of IP enforcement I've heard the obligation to enforce IP rights on commercial ventures of any kind.

Regardless, assuming Zenimax's response(s) to Jubal are less than fabourable (assuming he emails them or writes them a letter at all, it's his call to make), the community on SecondLife is already encouraging him to simply give away his creations and ask for donations rather than requiring them. I for one would donate, even though I don't own any of his Fallout-based gear.

Edit:
Wait, wait. I responded without really knowing what you were referring to. Still not a valid argument. They can tell one person "You can't use it" and still not tell the same thing to another person, it's their perogative to do so.

No it isn't. They can license rights to different people, but to avoid abuse of monopoly they must use consistent prices.

If they allow Jubal to use their models free of charge, then they must either give him the exclusive rights to do that (which they don't want to do for obvious reasons) or allow *anyone* to use the same things who is willing to sign an equal contract that Jubal signed.

And besides that, Jubal acted without licensing. Again: they are obliged to act act up against that. If Jubal wants to license their IP, then he may be able to arrange something (although I sincerely doubt that Bethesda is willing to do that).

 

[Pietro Moskvitch]

Look up anything on copyright and intellectual property laws and it will tell you as much. It's up to the owner of the intellectual property to enforce their rights to it, and they can enforce or decide not to enforce their rights when they choose or choose not to.

And as I already mentioned, giving Jubal permission, either by giving him a license, or simply choosing not to enforce their rights, would be a clever business maneuver, as SecondLife has been used successfully as a promotional platform in the past.

And, as you quoted from my last post, there's always the option of him simply offering the stuff for free and simply asking a donation to keep it available, which I'm 99.999 ad nauseum % sure would qualify under fair use.

Edit: And, as far as citing sources are concerned, I'm not going to bother looking up any of the cases I'm sure exist where people distributing MP3s or pirated CDs have been brought up on charges. If your idea were correct, then any of them would have been able to get off by referencing the thousands of people that have distributed MP3s or pirated CDs without being brought up on charges. Regardless of how many people have been successfully brought up on criminal or civil charges, I sincerely doubt that any of them has gotten off on a record label or band's failure to enforce their rights in other instances.

 

[Sander]

Look up anything on copyright and intellectual property laws and it will tell you as much. It's up to the owner of the intellectual property to enforce their rights to it, and they can enforce or decide not to enforce their rights when they choose or choose not to.

Except that all of my look-ups tell me exactly the opposite thing. You are not allowed to selectively enforce your copyright on commercial ventures.
Again: sources, please.

And as I already mentioned, giving Jubal permission, either by giving him a license, or simply choosing not to enforce their rights, would be a clever business maneuver, as SecondLife has been used successfully as a promotional platform in the past.

And, as you quoted from my last post, there's always the option of him simply offering the stuff for free and simply asking a donation to keep it available, which I'm 99.999 ad nauseum % sure would qualify under fair use.

Yes, that would qualify under fair use. So he could still simply do that. The problem is: he didn't.

Edit: And, as far as citing sources are concerned, I'm not going to bother looking up any of the cases I'm sure exist where people distributing MP3s or pirated CDs have been brought up on charges. If your idea were correct, then any of them would have been able to get off by referencing the thousands of people that have distributed MP3s or pirated CDs without being brought up on charges. Regardless of how many people have been successfully brought up on criminal or civil charges, I sincerely doubt that any of them has gotten off on a record label or band's failure to enforce their rights in other instances.

Wrong. I'm talking about, yet again, *commercial ventures*. I've yet to see the first piracy case where the pirates are referred to as commercial ventures. You are absolutely free not to enforce your IP-rights on people who use your IP for non-commercial ventures.

 

[Ekib]

well to finnish the topic (couldnt post before) the place's closed. i hope jubal can keep his land. ignana bob's stand's gone and i would suggest HEAVILY to any fan to actualy go and visit the hospital before its gone cause its trully a piece of art.
and the maybe small, but still existant community in SecondLife actualy was the way i knew FO3 would come out.
if it wasnt for jubal i wouldnt have knew this and i was in the sim roaming around for a couple days at least before i found the place. and i had to be directed so wasnt put as a big shop front, just a fan's work on what he loved. sad compagnies freak out that bad i say. because they didnt pay 1 cent and he told fans about FO3, im sure im not the only one who got to know with jubal's help, and got to admit too he put my mind back into fallout.i dotn usualy finnish my games, fallout and fallout 2 are 2 i did and i dont usualy play them again once done. but i played back in this. the game's great. no doubt. but it could be the best game ever made without people knowing no one will get it. and lets be honest too if thats the way a compagny wants to treat its fans..... im not very intrested in there products.

doesnt cost anything to try to contact him, then you can see how the person reacts. and about copyright laws well they was some parts nearly non existant in fallout jubal put in game. aka, backpack, boots, broken suits (come on like you stay fresh and all clean in the wastelands of the fallout world for ever) and a few other things. on the pipboy picture too you see one side of the prim used, you barely see the 2 switches, 3 lights, on/off indicator and a few other things + the back of it and the straps to attach it. basicly not 10% is original from the game. i find it really sad cause lots of time and effort whent into his work.and much was modified too, as in 2D to 3D. but then big compagnies win by default. money vs creativity.

and if you think those are easy to make just come in SL and make something half as good.
this said good day. and i hope still to see that hospital with the land supporting it

 

[Sander]

Why do people not get the part where Bethesda really had *no choice* in this matter. None. They had to react like this, to protect their IP. It doesn't matter whether or not Jubal's work actually resembles anything Fallout, he markets it as a Fallout product.