Fallout - John Woo style
- Thread starter Azael
- Start date
Saint_Proverbius
Vault Senior Citizen
Reaper said:
Burst has some nice drawbacks.
- Burns ammo fast - Dual pistols wouldn't.
- Unpredictable results - Friendly fire makes the player think about when and when not to use it. Blowing away a townsperson on accident due to indiscriminate bursting can be bad for the player.
- Effects don't greatly ramp with skill - Even if you're an uber-sniper marksman boy, all those bullets aren't going to fly in to the person you're targetting. With dual pistols, they would.
So, basically, dual pistols would be like burst only without the drawbacks of burst fire. The only drawbacks suggested so far for dual pistols is accuracy, which won't be much of a consequence to someone with a high perception and good small arms skill. By the time you get that serious skill level, you're going to be packing the hardcore pistols like the .223 pistol or the gauss pistol, and that's where the balance goes totally haywire.
There's been a debate on which weapon was better since Fallout 2 came out, the gauss pistol or the gauss rifle since the trade off in that argument is APs versus damage. There is no debate between the gauss rifle and two gauss pistols, because that would be way too damned uber.
Furthermore, you have other considerations, like dual SMG use! Didn't think about that one when you brought up, did you? After all, they're both one handed and they're just automatic pistols.
Another thing is that SMGs are balanced with pistols. There aren't .223 pistol SMGs or gauss SMGs for a very good reason, they'd be insanely overpowered.
axelgreese
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Azael said:
As opposed to something simpler like, perhaps different ammos that are found later in the game?
fdanarchy50
First time out of the vault
John Woo, Fallout-style: Hell yes...
I think it's a great idea.
Howabout anyone can dual-wield pistols, but also introduce a trait.
something like this:
Ambidextrious
------------------
You are skilled in the use of both your hands
this would be like the one-hander skill, but increase accuracy with two handed weapons (the big guns skill) and give a bonus to accuracy when wielding two weapons at once.
you could dual-wield any small gun, melee weapon, unarmed weapon, with decreasing accuracy the larger the weapon and the greater the recoil: two pistols, barely nothing, two smgs, moderate, two shotguns/rifles, heavy
two knives, barely nothing, two clubs, moderate, two spears, heavy, etc.
add an extra ap cost and another point requirement for strength, and double the reload ap cost. then take away aimed shots, and you basicly have a burst attack for the pistol.
to solve the problem of say, a 14mm and a magnum, you would only be able to use two weapons of the same type, as in Devastation. or at least the Devestation MP Demo. i.e., a set of dual magnums, or a set of dual 14mm's.
this would make small guns a skill usable the whole game; dual-wielding two gauss pistols or G11's would be pretty badass.
and yes, it would make pistols overpowered; but take into account the short range pistols have; you would have to get close enough to the raider with the ak47 to actually shoot at him accurately while he could lay down several bursts.
and as for a desert eagle doing more damage than a hunting rifle...a desert eagle can load hollowpoint rounds, which mushroom on impact (flatten out: they basicly end up leaving a small hole at impact and a large hole at exit) while .223 or 7.62mm rounds(military issue) depicted in fallout are brass rounds, which usually stay the same size from impact to exit, and have been used in virtually all anti-infantry(military) weapons since the geneva accords. which is why, in fallout tactics, the 7.62 had average penetration and damage, and why 9mm hollowpoint had less than average penetration but increased damage.
so think of it this way; two pistols= a shotgun with two large, accurate pellets and a bigger magazine. Think Old West. It adds to the close-range gun combat, nothing else.
and perhaps at 200% in small guns with say 8 perception(to notice two targets) and 8 agility(to sucessfully aim at two targets), you could pick a perk that allows you to shoot two people at a time, if you so choose, or make called shots. you'd be a close range killing machine: but by the time you got there, you'd need to be.
instead of staying at 50 yards or so away with the sniper rifle, you could sneak in with a couple glocks and clear the place out, matrix style, with the already low ap cost, and being at close range. it'd be somewhere between the slayer and sniper perk; but it would also mean that the sniper perk would have to be changed to a min. range or certain weapons.
it would take an extra bit of balancing and beta testing, and it would definitely add some new style and dimension to the game, and i personally wouldn't mind that.
I think it's a great idea.
Howabout anyone can dual-wield pistols, but also introduce a trait.
something like this:
Ambidextrious
------------------
You are skilled in the use of both your hands
this would be like the one-hander skill, but increase accuracy with two handed weapons (the big guns skill) and give a bonus to accuracy when wielding two weapons at once.
you could dual-wield any small gun, melee weapon, unarmed weapon, with decreasing accuracy the larger the weapon and the greater the recoil: two pistols, barely nothing, two smgs, moderate, two shotguns/rifles, heavy
two knives, barely nothing, two clubs, moderate, two spears, heavy, etc.
add an extra ap cost and another point requirement for strength, and double the reload ap cost. then take away aimed shots, and you basicly have a burst attack for the pistol.
to solve the problem of say, a 14mm and a magnum, you would only be able to use two weapons of the same type, as in Devastation. or at least the Devestation MP Demo. i.e., a set of dual magnums, or a set of dual 14mm's.
this would make small guns a skill usable the whole game; dual-wielding two gauss pistols or G11's would be pretty badass.
and yes, it would make pistols overpowered; but take into account the short range pistols have; you would have to get close enough to the raider with the ak47 to actually shoot at him accurately while he could lay down several bursts.
and as for a desert eagle doing more damage than a hunting rifle...a desert eagle can load hollowpoint rounds, which mushroom on impact (flatten out: they basicly end up leaving a small hole at impact and a large hole at exit) while .223 or 7.62mm rounds(military issue) depicted in fallout are brass rounds, which usually stay the same size from impact to exit, and have been used in virtually all anti-infantry(military) weapons since the geneva accords. which is why, in fallout tactics, the 7.62 had average penetration and damage, and why 9mm hollowpoint had less than average penetration but increased damage.
so think of it this way; two pistols= a shotgun with two large, accurate pellets and a bigger magazine. Think Old West. It adds to the close-range gun combat, nothing else.
and perhaps at 200% in small guns with say 8 perception(to notice two targets) and 8 agility(to sucessfully aim at two targets), you could pick a perk that allows you to shoot two people at a time, if you so choose, or make called shots. you'd be a close range killing machine: but by the time you got there, you'd need to be.
instead of staying at 50 yards or so away with the sniper rifle, you could sneak in with a couple glocks and clear the place out, matrix style, with the already low ap cost, and being at close range. it'd be somewhere between the slayer and sniper perk; but it would also mean that the sniper perk would have to be changed to a min. range or certain weapons.
it would take an extra bit of balancing and beta testing, and it would definitely add some new style and dimension to the game, and i personally wouldn't mind that.
A trait that goes "you are equally skilled with both hands"?
The point of traits was kind of to give you an advantage AND a disadvantage. Except Bloody Mess.
Just saying.
The point of traits was kind of to give you an advantage AND a disadvantage. Except Bloody Mess.
Just saying.
[PCE]el_Prez
Vault Fossil
A gun in each hand would be incredibly less accurate than a shotgun with a butt.
Chaoticlandraider^
First time out of the vault
akimbo weapons are just new age bull for stupid console gamers to gawk at and people who watch crappy movies like the matrix i mean cmon two hk mp5's in each hand that is utterly stupid.
[PCE]el_Prez
Vault Fossil
i agree with your point about akimbo being stupid but the matrix wasnt a crappy movie. It just had a hook - a crazy dream world where you could jump around off of walls and kill a room full of baddies with double uzis... its just eye candy that sold. Anyways that was the dream word and putting akimbo guns in a 'somewhat trying to establish realism' game would be retarded.
Grizzly~Adams
It Wandered In From the Wastes
You need to remember that fallout is an RPG and not some 3d action shooter, eventhough I do agree with your point about being able to handle miniguns.
Guns akimbo might have been cool for tactics but if BIS is planning to make a good RPG, I think they should leave little combat details like this out.
If they did add this I think that it should only apply to lower caliber weapons like 9mm and 45s. Edit: I could see how super mutants may be able to handle something larger.
Guns akimbo might have been cool for tactics but if BIS is planning to make a good RPG, I think they should leave little combat details like this out.
If they did add this I think that it should only apply to lower caliber weapons like 9mm and 45s. Edit: I could see how super mutants may be able to handle something larger.
Saint_Proverbius
Vault Senior Citizen
Re: John Woo, Fallout-style: Hell yes...
Here's another trait along those same lines:
I think that'd be KEWL, d00d!
fdanarchy50 said:
Here's another trait along those same lines:
- Game Winner
----------------------------------------
You have just picked a trait that will make you uber. It has no penalties, thus making you nearly unstoppable in this game. You are the GAME WINNER!
I think that'd be KEWL, d00d!
DarkShade1989
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Once, I thought dual-wielding would be cool in Fallout 3...
...then I realized I had watched the Matrix too much.
But anyway, some questions for the dual guns supporters:
1. What benefit would it be to the game?
2. How would it be balanced?
3. Could a character dual-wield all small guns? (ie rifles)
4. What about the children?
And my death threat:
I shall come in the night and claim your soul!
...then I realized I had watched the Matrix too much.
But anyway, some questions for the dual guns supporters:
1. What benefit would it be to the game?
2. How would it be balanced?
3. Could a character dual-wield all small guns? (ie rifles)
4. What about the children?
And my death threat:
I shall come in the night and claim your soul!