Fallout: London, what I like so far

[Jogre]

So a couple weeks ago, I discovered the existence of a modding project called Fallout: London. At first I was kinda skeptical of this because I don't usually get hyped for this, but the more I read in to this the more I figure, hey actually this could be pretty cool.

Now I'm biased here. I am a Brit, and I'm probably one of the few Brits who actually really loves London(Though to be fair I'm an Essex Boy. My entire county is known as basically being filled with wannabe Londoners). London is such a cool city tho, I love the Victorian Arcitecture combined with modern billboards, I love how you walk down a street and there's just so much interesting stuff, you might find an entire street market inside a series of shipping containers.

The devs have set out a series of video updates on their progress. I admit, I haven't watched all of these because I don't have the time to, but it appears they're doing a lot of cool stuff. Here's the latest one:


Here's their site: https://fallout4london.com, Yeah it gives me an unsecure webpage warning too. It's legit, there's a lot of cool stuff there but geez, that needs to be sorted out.

So anyway, since I'm perhaps one of the more qualified people to give my thoughts so far (Being British), I thought I'd do so, retaining a level of optimism towards what clearly looks like a labour of love

The Aesthetics​

The first thing I have to talk about is the Aesthetics of this mod, at least from the concept art, because it's, odd. But odd in a good way. I'll show you what I mean

Do you see what I mean when I say "The Aesthetics are odd?", what I mean is there doesn't seem to be an underlying pattern here.

What I'm seeing is a semi-steampunk looking suit, a guy who looks like a 1910s gangster, an Atompunk drink(Ion Brew is such a bad pun), and 1980s Skinheads and Punks. That's an Anachronistic mess, and I love it.

I'm not much of a purist about the whole Atompunk thing, I think all retrofuturism can be cool if done right, and honestly, why not just take the cool aesthetics from any era you feel like?

The 80s subculture especially is a really cool vibe. Like this is the era of mass unemployment, where people would pass the time by joining subcultures and beating the shit out of each other. Like, what the fuck even are Mods and Rockers? But they hate each other so that's enough reason for them to exist.

Thankfully the devs seem to have seen the error in their ways in initially planning the Punks to be just another Raider Gang, and have had them be a somwhat peaceful group within Camden. Thank God: any game that has a Punk subculture but doesn't let you hang out in bars with them is a wasted opportunity.

The Factions​

One thing I'm really hyped about so far is the Factions. Seriously, go in to the FAQ section, and click on Factions.

Do you notice something? Yeah two of them are "Criminal Syndicates", and the police work for the Aristocratic Gentry of the city. Do you know what that means?

London in this mod appears like it's going to be it's own weird sociopolitical thing, with a formal ruling class and police force, as well as a sinister underworld. When I saw that, I immdiately realised the devs here have hit gold.

See newer Fallout games have this issue with scale. They are limited to a single city in what they can portray, and most don't know what to do with this. Raider-packed ruins of major cities can only be interesting for so long.

But making the playable area kinda a metropolitan almost city-state, akin to the Hub? Hell yeah, that's super interesting right off the bat.

(The leader of one of the factions)

From my limited understanding, it seems like other than the Gentry, the other two major players are what appears to be a semi-fascistic militia, and a democratic reform movement that was forced in to hiding.

All I can say is, I hope they lean in to the potential "City-State" feeling as much as possible. Make the other factions seem like fringe movements compared to the all-encompassing power of the Gentry. That would create for such a unique game feel.

The Cityscape​

As I've said before, London is such a visually unique city, and thus far it seems that they're able to capture the vibe. Unfortunately, in the aftermath of the apocalypse, I'm sure London will be nowhere near as lively, but from what they've done so far I'm pretty impressed.

Got your classic London Red busses

What vaguely looks like an irradiated buckingham palace

Honestly this is looking cool

Stuff like this is really what's cool about London.

Promising so far. I really have faith they'll be able to capture the mood of London

Where I hope it's goes​

Let me tell you a little anecdote about London: One time I was with my ex-girlfriend who lived in Stamford Hill. We walked past a synagogue and a Yeshiva, as well as a couple Hassidic Jews, "We're here aren't we", I said. The joke being that Stamford Hill has the single highest concentration of Hassidic Jews in Europe.

I bring this up because London is a Culturally Diverse city, and I mean a REALLY Diverse City. I know that some people will have opinions on that which, have your own thoughts, but the point is, it's inherently part of the city's feel.

I have a friend who's studying a year abroad from Namibia, and she has friends in London's Namibian community. Yeah London has a Namibian community, that's the kind of city it is.

Regardless of your thoughts on immigration, the diversity of London is a core part of the city, and I hope that the devs exploit that to it's full potential, it'd be really cool to see how all the diverse cultures of London have adapted to the apocalypse.

Conclusion​

In conclusion, I am really hyped for this mod. London is such a cool city, and I really love the idea of a Fallout game taking place in it.

Moreover, I feel like there's a lot of potential there, with the Aesthetics, and the sociopolitical climate of London. They've got something unique going on, and I hope they realise the gold they've hit so far.

This mod has potential, and I think if the devs stick to what they've got right, this could be such a unique experience to play. I'm hesitantly excited for this mod, it's IMO, got potential to be perhaps one of the most unique player-made Fallout experiences yet.

 

[Atomic Postman]

I'm going to be rather negative here and say that London and Britain as a whole (as a half Brit) is a godawful setting for Fallout for a myriad of reasons. I'm not a fan of non-US Fallout for personal taste reasons but England particularly vexes me as a choice.

Narratively it's the bottom of the barrel in terms of non-US countries for a Fallout story. If you're doing non-US Fallout, you do China. Even then, I'd sooner see non-mainland USA such as Alaska or Hawaii.

Thematically it's also a really poor fit. Fallout is built off the back of Cold War zeitgeist, something which I don't think the UK makes a great case for in terms of setting. Again, China is an obvious pick here: Fallout's dystopian retrofuture from the perspective of the communist bloc rather than the USA's irrelevant little kid brother (during the Cold War). Similarly, the Mad Max desert Wasteland tone for the post-war obviously really falls in England too.

Do I think you could make a cool post-apoc game in England with retro themes? Absolutely. Do I think you could make a cool Fallout game in England? Fucking no I do not. There's literally nothing that makes Fallout in that setting. It just seems like a misguided mod project IMO

 

[Ugly Kid]

I'm going to be rather negative here and say that London and Britain as a whole (as a half Brit) is a godawful setting for Fallout for a myriad of reasons. I'm not a fan of non-US Fallout for personal taste reasons but England particularly vexes me as a choice.

Narratively it's the bottom of the barrel in terms of non-US countries for a Fallout story. If you're doing non-US Fallout, you do China. Even then, I'd sooner see non-mainland USA such as Alaska or Hawaii.

Thematically it's also a really poor fit. Fallout is built off the back of Cold War zeitgeist, something which I don't think the UK makes a great case for in terms of setting. Again, China is an obvious pick here: Fallout's dystopian retrofuture from the perspective of the communist bloc rather than the USA's irrelevant little kid brother (during the Cold War). Similarly, the Mad Max desert Wasteland tone for the post-war obviously really falls in England too.

Do I think you could make a cool post-apoc game in England with retro themes? Absolutely. Do I think you could make a cool Fallout game in England? Fucking no I do not. There's literally nothing that makes Fallout in that setting. It just seems like a misguided mod project IMO

I personally feel like fallout games can be set anywhere on earth and still be considered fallout. Fallout doesn't need to constantly be about the cold war. Fallout doesn't always need to be about red scare. And it doesn't need to constantly be in a desert. Sure it's what Fallout has been, but it's not what Fallout absolutely needs to be.

The only thing a Fallout game needs in it's setting is to be set after the great war.

Why limit yourself to one country anyway? There could be so many interesting settings and factions elsewhere in the world. And in 50 years, where would you even put a fallout game where it hasn't been yet, assuming it needs to be in America.

 

[Atomic Postman]

I personally feel like fallout games can be set anywhere on earth and still be considered fallout. Fallout doesn't need to constantly be about the cold war. Fallout doesn't always need to be about red scare. And it doesn't need to constantly be in a desert. Sure it's what Fallout has been, but it's not what Fallout absolutely needs to be.

The only thing a Fallout game needs in it's setting is to be set after the great war.

Why limit yourself to one country anyway? There could be so many interesting settings and factions elsewhere in the world. And in 50 years, where would you even put a fallout game where it hasn't been yet, assuming it needs to be in America.

My question would be : what constitutes the Fallout setting in your eyes?

 

[Ugly Kid]

My question would be : what constitutes the Fallout setting in your eyes?

What do you mean by that? Would I be answering your question by saying if it's set in the Fallout universe and takes place after the bombs dropped, then it can be a fallout game?

Though I don't consider the Bethesda games as fallout games, that's just because of the lore inconsistencies and poor quality in writing. I guess that's another credential then.

 

[Atomic Postman]

What do you mean by that? Would I be answering your question by saying if it's set in the Fallout universe and takes place after the bombs dropped, then it can be a fallout game?

Though I don't consider the Bethesda games as fallout games, that's just because of the lore inconsistencies and poor quality in writing. I guess that's another credential then.

What components constitute the makeup of Fallout as a setting. What characterizes it?

 

[Ugly Kid]

What components constitute the makeup of Fallout as a setting. What characterizes it?

Post nuclear/post-post nuclear, earth, war, survival, that's about it honestly

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

Post nuclear/post-post nuclear, earth, war, survival, that's about it honestly

What about the retro futuristic aesthetic, the Cold War paranoia, or the Mad Max-ian raiders? Not to mention that Wild West frontier feeling that the wasteland has. These are the things that separate Fallout from other post-apocalyptic media such as Stalker or The Road.

 

[Ugly Kid]

What about the retro futuristic aesthetic, the Cold War paranoia, or the Mad Max-ian raiders? Not to mention that Wild West frontier feeling that the wasteland has. These are the things that separate Fallout from other post-apocalyptic media such as Stalker or The Road.

I mean those are what sort of distinguish Fallout from other games and all but when I play Fallout I'm not thinking about what happened before the war, and the mad max + retro futurism doesn't need to be exclusive to America. Even then I don't think a Fallout game in another country would be less Fallout just because they have a different style.

So like, it distinguishes Fallout from other games, but it's not what's necessarily needed to distinguish the games.

 

[Risewild]

I mean those are what sort of distinguish Fallout from other games and all but when I play Fallout I'm not thinking about what happened before the war, and the mad max + retro futurism doesn't need to be exclusive to America. Even then I don't think a Fallout game in another country would be less Fallout just because they have a different style.

So like, it distinguishes Fallout from other games, but it's not what's necessarily needed to distinguish the games.

Unfortunately, if you remove those things, you end up with a generic post-apoc game #3062. Even if it's a good game.

By that point, it's Fallout only in name and nothing else, so there's really no point in calling it Fallout either.

And to be honest, I would love to see or know about the rest of the world in the fallout universe. But it would be hard to make a Fallout in other countries without filling it up with the same, now "iconic", Fallout things... So we would have Nuka-Cola, Vault-Tec, BoS, Enclave, Pipboy, Vault Boy, Super Mutants, Ghouls, etc in Italy, Japan, Iraq, Spain, Australia, Brazil, etc... If we didn't get those things we would probably get copies of them with a different name:
Atom-Cola instead of Nuka-Cola, Shelter Inc. instead of Vault-Tec, Fellowship of Power instead of Brotherhood of Steel, Illuminati instead of Enclave, WAR (Winblows Auto Recorder) instead of Pipboy, Mocky Mouse instead of Vault Boy, Hulking Mutants instead of Super Mutants, Rad Zombies instead of Ghouls, etc.

These are some things I wrote in the past:
"My understanding of Fallout games is:

Fallout is mostly about the 50's "american dream", the "americana", the 50's USA sci-fi scene, the USA patriotism on the great wars and also about the fear of the cold war."

"The classic Fallout games were USA retro-futuristic westerns (westerns are very USA too), following a Googie style (an American style) for most stuff like robots and energy weapons. Then we have the whole "super capitalist" style of corporations in that universe, which is also a USA specific characteristic, how they represent the pre-war and advertisements (like the TV on the intro) is also very 50's USA like, the things about how muscle cars are represented is also very USA. Even the Nuka-Cola joke is very USA. The cold-war feeling, very USA. The Vault Boy slides on the intro are very USA, and so on.

The games have a very American feeling in almost everything. Although, that's the things with "feelings" it might be different from person to person.

If the game happens to be in a different country, or that country will adopt a lot of stuff that seems American, or it will lose some or most of it's charm.
Not that it couldn't be good, but it would change the feeling in a lot of ways, in a way, what would be the point in calling it a Fallout game?"

 

[Gizmojunk]

My impression was always that the rest of the world was toast.

Spoiler

 

[Risewild]

I do think that Fallout in/with/mentioning other countries could work as spinoff games of other genres.

• A Grand Strategy game with the whole World map, where Fallout post-apoc nations/factions would try to tame and conquer the ruined world.
• A RTS game with nations/countries/factions including those outside of the USA.
• A colony building game (like Rimworld for example) set in Fallout's ruined Earth (full planet).
• A post-apoc racing game with racers and vehicles from over the Fallout world.
• A new Tactical game where some outside faction is trying to invade the USA or where known US factions (NCR, Caesars Legion, Midwest BoS, etc.) are trying to invade a different "country".
• A Space Exploration game where it was found out that some Earth Nations had started secret space colonies before the bombs fell on Earth.
• A point and click adventure game, where we control a character that travels around the world for whatever reason. This could be a long living character like a Super Mutant, Ghoul, Robot, Cyborg, etc.
• An Horror game where a character ends up in some other part of the world (maybe a teleport machine test failure or something stupid like that) and it's full of horrifying creatures, crazy murderous people, etc.
• A Survival game where our character(s) have to find food, water, shelter, etc. and survive in the unforgiving Fallout nuked world. Could have different "countries" of the world where you could play, each with different challenges and survival ways (Russia would have to deal with extreme cold, Australia with extreme heat, etc.).

There's many other stupid spinoffs I could come up with. But I think this illustrates my point already.

 

[Ugly Kid]

Unfortunately, if you remove those things, you end up with a generic post-apoc game #3062. Even if it's a good game.

By that point, it's Fallout only in name and nothing else, so there's really no point in calling it Fallout either.

And to be honest, I would love to see or know about the rest of the world in the fallout universe. But it would be hard to make a Fallout in other countries without filling it up with the same, now "iconic", Fallout things... So we would have Nuka-Cola, Vault-Tec, BoS, Enclave, Pipboy, Vault Boy, Super Mutants, Ghouls, etc in Italy, Japan, Iraq, Spain, Australia, Brazil, etc... If we didn't get those things we would probably get copies of them with a different name:
Atom-Cola instead of Nuka-Cola, Shelter Inc. instead of Vault-Tec, Fellowship of Power instead of Brotherhood of Steel, Illuminati instead of Enclave, WAR (Winblows Auto Recorder) instead of Pipboy, Mocky Mouse instead of Vault Boy, Hulking Mutants instead of Super Mutants, Rad Zombies instead of Ghouls, etc.

These are some things I wrote in the past:
"My understanding of Fallout games is:

Fallout is mostly about the 50's "american dream", the "americana", the 50's USA sci-fi scene, the USA patriotism on the great wars and also about the fear of the cold war."

"The classic Fallout games were USA retro-futuristic westerns (westerns are very USA too), following a Googie style (an American style) for most stuff like robots and energy weapons. Then we have the whole "super capitalist" style of corporations in that universe, which is also a USA specific characteristic, how they represent the pre-war and advertisements (like the TV on the intro) is also very 50's USA like, the things about how muscle cars are represented is also very USA. Even the Nuka-Cola joke is very USA. The cold-war feeling, very USA. The Vault Boy slides on the intro are very USA, and so on.

The games have a very American feeling in almost everything. Although, that's the things with "feelings" it might be different from person to person.

If the game happens to be in a different country, or that country will adopt a lot of stuff that seems American, or it will lose some or most of it's charm.
Not that it couldn't be good, but it would change the feeling in a lot of ways, in a way, what would be the point in calling it a Fallout game?"

I understand cold war and Americana and retro futurism and what not is what Fallout was built on. But not every fallout game needs those themes or styles. For comparison look at Resident Evil or Star Wars, each entry differs from one another in several ways whether subtle or obvious but it works sometimes. The clone wars is nothing like A New Hope, RE 4 is nothing like RE 1, yet the entries are still massively successful despite that.

Just because a Fallout game that differs from the original hasn't been successful yet, that doesn't mean it can never happen.

And your argument about the iconic things all being ripped off is a bad argument in my opinion. Not all writers are Emil, there are good writers that can come up with original ideas.

 

[Ugly Kid]

I understand cold war and Americana and retro futurism and what not is what Fallout was built on. But not every fallout game needs those themes or styles. For comparison look at Resident Evil or Star Wars, each entry differs from one another in several ways whether subtle or obvious but it works sometimes. The clone wars is nothing like A New Hope, RE 4 is nothing like RE 1, yet the entries are still massively successful despite that.

Just because a Fallout game that differs from the original hasn't been successful yet, that doesn't mean it can never happen.

And your argument about the iconic things all being ripped off is a bad argument in my opinion. Not all writers are Emil, there are good writers that can come up with original ideas.

By successful I just mean something that fans of the original would proudly consider it to be connected

 

[Gizmojunk]

By successful I just mean something that fans of the original would proudly consider it to be connected

Except that they offer nothing of the series premise, gameplay, atmosphere, or incentive to play.

But not every fallout game needs those themes or styles. For comparison look at Resident Evil or Star Wars, each entry differs from one another in several ways whether subtle or obvious but it works sometimes. The clone wars is nothing like A New Hope, RE 4 is nothing like RE 1, yet the entries are still massively successful despite that.

This is misguided. These examples are spin-offs using their world settings. Every Warhammer 40k game can be different, but not every W40k game can be Dawn Of War series material; Spacemarine is no Dawn of War 4 no matter how great or as much fun it is to play. It is quite literally the wrong kind of fun.

You are arguing that even a reskinned Skyrim can be [BE] an official Fallout 5 so long as it merely uses the IP world setting and namesakes. That just isn't the case.

Their titles bear the IP's name by corporate fiat alone; begrudged at that. Their games deface and deride the IP; they make it worse with each new addition. Shame on them.

 

[Norzan]

The fact that i have to own Fallout 4 to play any of this immediately turns me off. Specially because i find the graphics of Fallout 4 absolutely horrid. They have this really bad, plastic, disgusting look to them (playing the Witcher 3 made them even worse).

I'd rather play this on the New Vegas engine with its murky graphics and piss yellow filter.

 

[Ugly Kid]

Except that they offer nothing of the series premise, gameplay, atmosphere, or incentive to play.

I said that people would proudly consider it to be connected, even if what you say about whatever "it" may refer is true.

This is misguided. These examples are spin-offs using their world settings. Every Warhammer 40k game can be different, but not every W40k game can be Dawn Of War series material; Spacemarine is no Dawn of War 4 no matter how great or as much fun it is to play. It is quite literally the wrong kind of fun.

RE4 is literally a numbered game in the main series. Clone Wars directly expands upon the main series of the prequels by starring Anakin and Obi Wan. And even if they are spin offs it still wouldn't discredit my argument, I said a fallout game can be in another country not that it needs to be a main title.

You are arguing that even a reskinned Skyrim can be [BE] an official Fallout 5 so long as it merely uses the IP world setting and namesakes. That just isn't the case.

Again you assume I mean to say a numbered game in the main series is going to take place in another country. Actually I feel as though a numbered game should try to continue the story of the previous game. And semi-related, Skyrim is kind of just medieval worse FNV.

Their titles bear the IP's name by corporate fiat alone; begrudged at that. Their games deface and deride the IP; they make it worse with each new addition. Shame on them.

I assume "they" refers to Bethesda, and I agree with you there. Though again it's poor world building and writing quality, and dumbing down of rpg mechanics that make these titles so egregious. Not because they take place somewhere else or have slightly different themes/styles.

 

[Norzan]

RE 4 is nothing like RE 1

By successful I just mean something that fans of the original would proudly consider it to be connected

Except at this point there's a big gap in the RE fanbase: the fans of the originals, and the fans of the action oriented games. Sure, there are some that like both, but from what i gathered there's a noticeable divide.

Coming from someone that loves RE 4, it's barely a Resident Evil game, except for using established characters and being set in the same universe. In terms of design it's far removed from the previous games, and it goes well beyond just the change in camera perspective. Ammo management is pretty much out the window given that the game dumps a ton of ammo on you and you can also buy it from the merchant, the number of enemies got cranked up to eleven to justify the more actiony approach, and the puzzles are simpler and few in number.

Resident Evil 4 might as well be a new IP, but Capcom slapped the RE title on it because they used it for brand recognition. So i wouldn't use it for the defense of a Fallout game that hardly has anything to do with the established aethestic and themes of the series.

And successful means nothing in terms of feeling part of the series because Fallout 3 and 4 sold really well, but they as well be Radioactive 1 and 2 given how little they resemble the other games in the series.

 

[Ugly Kid]

Except at this point there's a big gap in the RE fanbase: the fans of the originals, and the fans of the action oriented games. Sure, there are some that like both, but from what i gathered there's a noticeable divide.

Coming from someone that loves RE 4, it's barely a Resident Evil game, except for using established characters and being set in the same universe. In terms of design it's far removed from the previous games, and it goes well beyond just the change in camera perspective. Ammo management is pretty much out the window given that the game dumps a ton of ammo on you and you can also buy it from the merchant, the number of enemies got cranked up to eleven to justify the more actiony approach, and the puzzles are simpler and few in number.

Resident Evil 4 might as well be a new IP, but Capcom slapped the RE title on it because they used it for brand recognition. So i wouldn't use it for the defense of a Fallout game that hardly has anything to do with the established aethestic and themes of the series.

And successful means nothing in terms of feeling part of the series because Fallout 3 and 4 sold really well, but they as well be Radioactive 1 and 2 given how little they resemble the other games in the series.

Well you make a good point about Resident Evil. But I chose to clarify what I meant by successful, I don't mean monetary I mean popularity in pre existing fan base.

 

[Gizmojunk]

I don't mean monetary I mean popularity in pre existing fan base.

I would say that popularity [with fans of the originals in this case] is no test for authenticity of product. There could be a Mad Max vehicular-combat game with a Fallout label slapped on it, that uses 50's muscle cars... and be fun for all, and still not qualify as a Fallout game.

*Strangely enough there are games that are not Fallout IP, yet are closer to Fallout titles than Bethesda's work.

When I mentioned 'they', I include Obsidian, for they were certainly on the Bethesda leash when they developed New Vegas.

But to your point about international Fallout titles... I would agree that in theory a title could be made around a US military base on foreign soil, during wartime... but Fallout's timeline has the end of the world happen in two hours, and in keeping with the ~~humor, that the rest of the Earth is assumed a lifeless burn mark, with very little of even America left habitable.... and with no future, no serious chance of ever recovering; discounting anything from Bethesda of course.

I think (ignoring the dead world) that Obsidian, with additional past Interplay Fallout devs could (with the license) make a decent (Europe/Asia based) Fallout game akin to WL2/3 done in the style of Joseph Heller's Catch~22. But we will never get one out of Bethesda, or from any studio they can control.

The IP situation is [figuratively] like as if Tom Waits were tied to a publisher that demanded from him only bubble-gum top 40 dance hits.... nothing like what his original fans would want, and nothing they would be able to stomach.