Vegas_Wanderer
First time out of the vault
iridium_ionizer said:
It would be a really interesting game if they've taken into account what you've just said here
Fallout: New Vegas Developer Diary #4 - The Factions
- Thread starter WorstUsernameEver
- Start date
First time out of the vault
It would be a really interesting game if they've taken into account what you've just said here
your evil twin
It Wandered In From the Wastes
It would be interesting if Ceasar's Legion actually functions like the real Roman empire. The adoption of Roman style clothing would make sense if they are sticking religiously to a textbook describing everything Roman.
I always thought "Erm, even if NCR has some moral problems, Ceasar's Legion sounds pretty obviously evil to me," but if they can pull of a decent emulation of ancient Rome then they could be seen as a force for civilisation.
I always thought "Erm, even if NCR has some moral problems, Ceasar's Legion sounds pretty obviously evil to me," but if they can pull of a decent emulation of ancient Rome then they could be seen as a force for civilisation.
phildog
First time out of the vault
I agree. This game isn't going to have any "moral ambiguity" at all. NCR = Good, Caesar’s Legion = Bad.Lazlo said:
Sigh. The dialogue doesn't look much better either.
Um. Your disposition between their actions and motives might vary?
phildog said:I agree. This game isn't going to have any "moral ambiguity" at all. NCR = Good, Caesar’s Legion = Bad.
Sigh. The dialogue doesn't look much better either.
Oh, that's great, you've obviously played Fallout: New Vegas already, so that you have complete knowledge necessary to formulate the above opinion. Oh, how great it is to have such refined and intelligent users that never base their views on assumptions!
They brought up a great point in the video, NCR can't protect its citizens. Why would you want to be part of that? Weak, corrupted government, that, likely, taxes the shit out of its own citizens. ON the other hand you see CL, that keeps half of wasteland is scared shitless. I can definitely see how it could be a better choice under certain circumstances.
At least on paper, the Legion can offer you protection, while the NCR can not.
smber2cnma
First time out of the vault
Tagaziel said:phildog said:I agree. This game isn't going to have any "moral ambiguity" at all. NCR = Good, Caesar’s Legion = Bad.
Sigh. The dialogue doesn't look much better either.
Oh, that's great, you've obviously played Fallout: New Vegas already, so that you have complete knowledge necessary to formulate the above opinion. Oh, how great it is to have such refined and intelligent users that never base their views on assumptions!
While he is making an assumption, it isn't exactly unreasonable from what we have seen and heard. My current impression is as he stated, CL will be the evil faction and NCR the good guys. Then to muddy the moral waters, NCR is be overly controlling of their populace and their leader in the region will be a prick (like what they did in FO2 w/ Lynette). The to weaken the evil of CL, they will likely have a comic or very rational leadership group, who is only doing what must be done.
Is this fact? Of course not, it's just what seems most likly to me.
Best case, I'm totally wrong and the 3 factions have leaders that have skills that prove the deserve to be leaders. Thus they are all rational, ambitious, stratigic, and when needed deadly. Then some of the smaller factions can have the leader that just wants to 'kill, kill, kill'...hence his gang staying small time. Or a town sherrif that demands only he and his deputies get any weapons and thus his town suffers as raiders keep taking the unarmed farmers brahmin.
Hopefully, the successful factions are succeding because they have competent people in charge....sadly this takes stilled writers, dev. team comitted to having a tight well plotted story, and it only happens once in a blue moon.
So, I'm hopeful, but skeptical until I see otherwise.
ManWithNoName
It Wandered In From the Wastes
phildog said:Sigh. The dialogue doesn't look much better either.
Whats wrong with the dialogue?
smber2cnma said:
Like in the movie "You got Served 2"?
Looks like someone was a little jealous about his skillz.
smber2cnma said:
In other words, it takes Obsidian to do that.
phildog said:
What makes you say that? They've stressed that the NCR have a lot of flaws that keep them from being 'good'. They're too hung up on the old world to be pragmatic, they're a bloated and inefficient bureaucracy that can't enforce its own edicts, they're corrupt, and they can't protect their citizens. They might be founded on better principles than the Legion, but from the previews and dev diaries so far, it sounds like they might have gone too far in the other direction and made them obviously a worse choice.
That's how Obsidian does moral ambiguity: you choose between multiple bad options based on pragmatism or your own ideology. You have to compromise or settle. For a lot of people, I think the Legion's brutality will be excusable because the Legion works and can sustain itself.
DocConrad
First time out of the vault
For all the flaws of Alpha Protocol (most of which I would attribute to the reviewers, not the game) it NAILED the story and character motivations.
DocConrad said:
Not to mention AP was based on a complete hommage of spy movies which is probably the biggest black/white setting yet (nearly) all the charachters had motivations.
Marburg is a prime example of a good written video game villain. American Hero/Super Spy in the past yet see where the narcisst now is.
Tagaziel said:
Well hold on there, miss sassy-britches. We're going on what's been said so far. One of the damn devs said OH CAESAR'S ARE THE BAD GUYS AND THE NCR ARE THE GOOD GUYS BUT UH WE DON'T HAVE GOOD OR BAD IN THIS GAME. There's good guys and bad guys. The good guys have done bad things and the bad guys have done good things. But it's still good and bad guys. The NCR are misguided good guys and the Legion are bad guys.
No matter how bloated and inefficient a democracy can be, the Legion hasn't been presented as anything other than moustache twiddling baddies. I'd love to be wrong. If the Legion were brutal but brought about more order than the NCR, I'd be thoroughly impressed. A weak democracy can't bring about the safety and security of a brutal dictatorship in the Fallout world. That's something to thing about.
But you just know on the end slides of the game it'll be Perlman narrating how THE LEGION PLUNGED THE MOJAVE WASTELAND INTO A NEW DARK AGE whereas if you side with the NCR the MOJAVE WASTELAND MOVED INTO A NEW ERA OF DEMOCRACY AND FAIRNESS FOR ALL.
DocConrad
First time out of the vault
@Lazlo: If I had to guess, the representation of the Legion thus far has been to set up an expectation, only to have it deconstructed in the game. Going into a game perceiving it as black and white, and having that expectation slowly turned on it's ear? Good game design as well as proper use of the marketing department.