yukatan said:
Sorry, but gauging online forums' responses as even a remotely accurate representation of what the populace at large feels about CL is ridiculous. That's what strikes me as "unprofessional."
Yeah, and using polls to gauge what the "populace at large" wants is ridiculous too. And listening or reading about public opinion is ridiculous too. If a group of people reaches a certain size its not possible to gauge their feelings. So how come that FO3 is widely regarded as a good game if only 4 million out of 6 or 7 billion have bought it? I agree that, if you get right down to it, all those phrases like: the majority wants, the voter needs, most people think that... ar so much hot air because at best its based on a representative poll at worst its pulled out of a handy ass.
But there are things like more or less informed opinions. Looking over the nets most dedicated FO-site and reading what fans talk about can give at least an indication if the problem one person has is shared by others.
Worstusernameever hast told us that he scanned several forums including this one. he is not, as far as i know, a professional journalist and the question was put to sawyer in a personal way. WUNE never asked as a representative of all the gamers of the world but as a private person with an informed opinion.
This whole debate about if its really the majority or not (and this is not the first one) is ridiculous. First: the majority is not automatically right (see FO3), second: the majority can not be determined in any useful way if there are more than, say, 10000 people. So no one, not Worstusername, not you, not i and not bethesda could claim to truly represent the majority. third: the majority are a lot of people and there is a lot of different opinions, not just "yeah its cool" and "no it sucks!" 4th: its a turn of phrase. An inaccurate one, granted, but otherwise questions would go something like this:
i think, and a lot of other people too, but i cant give you exact numbers, i base this on (insert information source) that cl was criticized because of (insert every reason). While i don't know what proportion of the total gamers me and those people represent and i was not able to interview 4 million chaps in any depht i nevertheless would like an answer to my question, i.e. my problem with cl. If you think that there are not enough people sharing my opinion please tell me what the magic threshold is at which i would be allowed to ask that very question. I will then get out and try to acquire written statements from legally mature persons and ask again as soon as i have them.
The interesting thing was the question and the answer. Babbling about if WUNE used the right words and how many people share his opinion is a strawman argument to invalidate his opinion that there is something wrong with CL. If you think CL is cool as it is then thats ok, sawyer gave an answer that should satisfy you in your perception of CL. For me the answer was good too, i don't agree with him but i saw where hes coming from and what his thoughts were to use cl the way its used. Its a far better answer than the bethestadian "we thought it was hilarious and fun. We know it makes no sense but we went with it anyway".
concerning grey areas:
NV was advertised as having no really evil main antagonist but that every main faction had its pros and cons. That was not the case in FO1 and 2.
In FO2 you cant join with the enclave because their goal is to kill all mutated humans, including you. So it would be stupid. The master approached the same goal from the other side, turning everyone into mutants so everyone would be equal and stop slaughtering each other. Those factions cared for their people and wanted to make a better future by committing terrible deeds first. As a player you had no place in those futures and therefore had to fight them (well, you could be turned into a supermutant, and who knows how that would have turned out). You could not side with the master because you knew that the mutants are infertile, so again a suicide-option.
In NV its not that dramatic, you have two (three) factions that will rule the wastes in different ways. but not one of them is bent on killing everything that walks around or turning them into mutants. Its more like the choice an immigrant faces: should i go to a modern and liberal society like todays... germany, england or sweden or you name it, or should i go to a roman empire where i could be nailed to a cross or turned into a slave? The choice is pretty obvious and there lies the problem. CL has nothing to offer compared to NCR or House. It would have been better if you can choose between NCR as do gooders that can not protect their citizens (raiderattacks) and CL as secure but brutal government.
Anyway, keep it up Worstusernameever
and sorry for wall of text, ignore if you got better things to do
![Smile :) :)](/../../xencustomimages/smilies/icon_smile.gif)