Geech said:
I think you're viewing the situation from the wrong perspective in a couple of different ways. First and foremost, I believe the game was written with the expectation that the character would complete some quests and start to make a name for herself by the time she reached that stage in the game. After all, if you've never played the game before, then you don't know the direct routes to Vegas. Instead, you're far more likely to follow the clues and take quests as the come.
I know that's the way I played the game initially. By the time I reached Vegas I had helped organize the Goodsprings militia, I cleared the escaped convicts out of Primm and installed a new Sheriff. I did some work for the Mojave outpost, I cleared the ghouls out of the Repconn facility near Novac, and I negotiated a peaceful resolution to the stand-off between the NCR and the Great Khans at Boulder City. I think I even completed "That Lucky Old Sun" on may way up to Vegas.
So of course all of the major factions would have noticed me, because I was making a lot of noise. The NCR knew about me since I had completed multiple tasks directly for them. Caesar's legion could plausibly learn about me through spies as well. If their spies weren't good enough to detect my actions up to that point, then they certainly wouldn't be worth much.
Furthermore, I think you're overstating the importance that the NCR are placing on you at that point in the game. Crocker wants to hire you for a difficult task because you have proven yourself to be very capable in a number of situations up to that point. He hasn't picked you to be instrumental in the NCRs efforts, but if you succeed you will continue to receive increasingly important tasks from them. I doubt there's any point where NCR strategists build their plans around you. They didn't pick you to be the most important person in their plans for the Mojave wasteland, it just works out that way depending on the player's actions.
You´re probably right - the game requires the player to complete some faction quests for the main story to make perfect sense, which I haven´t done.
The only thing I´ve done for the NCR so far is resolving the conflict with the Kahns, and I only did that because I needed to speak with Jessup (at least I thinks that´s his name).
The next time I play I make sure to do so, I just skipped over most of the quests this time because chasing Benny was more important to my courier than helping strangers out.
I´ve tried to catch up with him before he reaches the Strip, because I knew getting to him would be difficult afterwards.
I just wish it wouldn´t be so, the main story should be able to sustain itself by simply doing the story quests.
The fact alone that you´re able to get close to Mr. House should spark the interest of the NCR and the Legion, it would have been enough if the they had just
some dialogue to acknowledge that.
You´re also correct about me overestimating the courier´s importance to the factions at this point in the story.
Knowing what is yet to come and with the aprupt way the messengers approach the Courier (and me not having done anything notably for the factions yet) led me to wriong assumptions.
They just need the courier for some difficult tasks, the influence he gains in the end only comes later.
Although it is still a bit strange that Crocker would trust you to get the Boomers on the NCR´s side while theoretically (well, and practically too, as the game shows) you may be actually working against the NCR and tell them differently.
It´s a lot of trust to put into a stranger, but maybe he just thinks the risk for one of his own would be too much, since the Boomers have shown to be very hostile up to this point and so he rather risks the life of an outsider...
Same goes for Caesar.
Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Except that they contact you even if you didn't enter the Lucky 38. Some things can be rationalized but overall that part of the main quest is weak. I remember one time I tried to do absolutely everything you can do against the legion before being summoned by Caesar (killing Vulpes, liberating Nelson, outing the spy and so on) and it felt really ridicolous.
Caesar: hey, you screwed us up badly [laundry list of what you did] and obviously hate us, would you like to work for me?
It would have made much more sense if the Legion and the NCR contacted you only if you had done something for them or something against the opposite faction.
Really? I didn´t know that... what about the NCR? Their messenger approaches you directly after leaving the Lucky 38, do you still get an invitation if you never meet Mr. House?
DevilTakeMe said:
I'm not even considering sidequests here, just the main plot.
...A better question is why wouldn't they? The whole point of the Frumentarii is to gather information for Caesar. That includes individuals of note, i.e. the Courier.
Same is true for the NCR. Acquire assets, use them against your targets.
What do you think intelligence agencies do? They collect information on individuals for a variety of reasons. Have you never seen a spy movie before? There's politics involved here.
Haven't you seen enough spy movies or crime stories to know that there might be an unhappy camper in the enemy camp, who you can turn to your side?
So what if you may have killed some of the Legion, that just proves that you are capable. So what if you have committed crimes in the NCR - that you're not in prison shows you have potential as a resourceful agent in the War. All of these people in power think there's something unique about you and that it might be possible to recruit you for their cause.
Those groups see you as a possible asset. Caesar and the NCR both think you might have potential, seeing as you've run off one of House's lieutenants. They're going to try and coerce you to help them out because they see you as someone who can influence things.
How do you think they place some assassins in key areas? It took years to place a spy in the NCR in order to pull off an attempt to sabotage the monorail. The NCR think that he might have been planted there by the Legion, when it's more likely that the Legion turned him against the NCR.
...They get to someone who is already in place and has the opportunity to strike where others cannot. House has you defending the NCR President, while Caesar would have you assassinate him.
If the question is "why do they think that?" You're being shown the answer about being granted access to places that those people cannot go - the Lucky 38. So the next best thing is to turn you to their side and get you working in their interests.
House picks you to be his lieutenant because you've become quite notable in recent days - getting shot twice in the head and chasing Benny all the way to the Strip is rather notable. Getting into the Strip as a non-citizen is rather notable as well - you either fought your way past the NCR and took the monorail, accumulated 2000 caps for the credit check, managed to get an NCR passport (real or fake), or reprogrammed the securitrons to let you pass. All of these are skills the average waster does not have, and therefore, would be useful in House's plans to usurp control from the NCR.
The NCR can't act directly against Mr. House because of the treaty, nor directly against the Legion because of orders. You, on the other hand, are someone outside the NCR who has shown to have access and opportunity. Someone with that kind of access would prove useful enough to overlook or pardon from past crimes.
Caesar wants you on his side because he believes you have access to House. House has been a thorn in Caesar's side while the NCr have been blacking him. Caesar wants you on his side because he wants you to betray House and strike where he lis most vulnerable. Who else can get close enough to Mr. House to kill or silence him? Not Benny, even though he was House's lieutenant. Not the NCR, who can't get inside the doors, etc. That's an opportunity he's willing to overlook your past crimes against the Legion for.
This really isn't a hard concept to understand.
...You do need to see more of the details. Those people who aren't keeping track of the details often try to generalize the story as being a "revenge" story, but there's nothing saying that's the case. You do not have to kill Benny or any of the Khans who were with him, afterall.
It's a mystery investigation (an attempted murder on the same person doing the investigating), not a revenge story, though revenge is certainly a possibility.
You have this wrong idea that these groups are instantly trusting of you because of how you dealt with Benny and House. Both the NCR and the Legion task you with taking out Mr. House (to further prove your loyalty to them and not House, obviously), and the rest of your energy is tasked with either converting others to join up or making sure they're not a problem in their plans. Only after that do you take a more prominent role in Killing/Defending the NCR President or being at the Second Battle of Hoover Dam.
You are making the assumption that the courier has chosen one side at the point he made it to the strip, which is possible, but not necessarily the case.
I guess our different take on the situation stems from your opinion that, by the time you get Crocker´s and Caesar´s invitation the Courier is an "individual of note", while I think he doesn´t have to be.
You write you aren´t talking about sidequests, but your argument builds upon the fact that the Courier has done something to warrant Caesar´s and the NCR´s attention before meeting Mister House and going after Benny.
Yes, he knows how to handle himself in a fight, but he isn´t the only one by far. There are many people who brave the wastes, he isn´t that special.
I wrote above that I agree that the story probably isn´t cut out for simply following the main quests, and the next time I play I´m going to handle things differently so they make more sense, though it would be better if it weren´t necerssary.
And I do get the concept why they would use the Courier to get at Mr. House, as I´ve already wrote.
It´s a good point, one that warrants the attention of the NCR and Legion - Mr. House is a thorn in the sides of both, and since the NCR can´t act on their own they use you.
I´ve already conceded to this fact, I just wish it would have been handled better because at least Crocker doesn´t even mention it.
I´ve still yet to see Caesar.
You are right that the reasons for the Courier to make his way after Benny are the players own and can be numerous, but for the overall story the motive doesn´t matter.
It´s only important the courier is on his way, for whatever reason.
You are also right about the last part, I overestimated the courier´s importance at that point of the story. One thing leads to another, it takes some time for the Courier to gain the influence he has later.
On a side note: How do you spare Benny´s life? I´ve desperately wanted to do that in my last playthrough, but when I gave him a stealthboy the whole Legion camp became hostile and killed him (and me!) in a matter of seconds.
I then thought canonically Benny simply has to die, only the means are up to the player.
Thank you all for your responses, you have been very helpful.
I think it´s not too much of a problem now to come up with something for my courier
