Fallout rare entries contest (Rnd 3, page 4, deadline 0621)

Per

Vault Consort
Staff member
Admin
This is a crazy kind of trivia contest made up by some guy named Mark Brader (whose rules have been heavily paraphrased here by me). If you want to participate, make sure you read and understand all the rules, particularly the one about not revealing or debating answers. The thread will be left open, but this is so that people can for instance express what a wonderful idea this is, not so they can ruin the contest.


THE RULES

1. PURPOSE

The contest revolves around a number of questions which are given by the moderator. The objective of the game for each participant is to, for each question, provide an answer that is: a) CORRECT, and b) shared by as FEW other participants as possible.


2. SUBMISSIONS

It is crucial that answers to questions are NOT POSTED OR DISCUSSED here or anywhere else. Before the deadline, answers should ONLY be relayed via PM or email to the moderator. Any public posting of or suggesting answers in the forum is disruptive to the contest and is punishable by strikes as dickery. Any coordination of answers outside the forum is cheating and should not be done since it just isn't fun.

For each question, only one answer can be submitted. If multiple answers to a question are submitted at once, any but the first will be disregarded. Once an answer has been submitted it cannot be changed, unless the question itself is changed.

Answers will be interpreted to the best of the moderator's ability concerning spelling, grammar etc. However, they will be taken as written with respect to what they properly refer to, regardless of intent. If an answer contains an ambiguity that cannot be resolved it may be considered incorrect depending on the question.

Optionally, an answer may be appended with references, clarifications of justifications. In this case, it should be made clear that they are not part of the answer (for instance by using parentheses). If there is no such division a correct answer may easily be read as an incorrect answer.

Questions beginning with the word "name" require an actual proper name to be given. For instance, if the question is to "Name a robot", then "Toto" would be a correct answer while "Dorothy's robot" or "The robot in the NCR power station" would not be correct.

Any written or offline source of information can be used to research possible answers - notably The Vault wiki, NMA info pages, hintbooks, walkthroughs, game files, or the hobo oracle down the street who you are reasonably sure is not himself in the contest. However, DO NOT ask around online for answers or otherwise discuss this with other participants since it violates the rules as well as the spirit of the contest.

For ease of sorting and handling, participants are asked to format their replies something like this, prefixing each answer with the number of the question followed by their name or handle:

0. - BillyBob - 43
1. - BillyBob - Washington D.C.
2. - BillyBob - Luke Skywalker (he has a cameo appearance in the fourth game)
3. - BillyBob - Because they were all killed by the parrot.
4. - BillyBob - Lizards (what else?)
.
.
.


3. SCOPE AND DEFINITIONS

For the first contest, all questions and answers relate ONLY to the first two Fallout RPGs, Fallout and Fallout 2, patched with the latest official patches (version 1.1 or 1.2 for Fallout and 1.02 for Fallout 2) but otherwise unmodified. The Fallout demo is not included. Participants deriving answers from non-English versions are responsible for making sure the answers are understandable to someone who is unfamiliar with those versions. The moderator of a future contest may expand or reduce the scope of that contest as desired.

What is true and known is defined exclusively by what is available in-game. Any additional information derived from unused game files or portions of game files, developer documentation or comments, "restored" content, promotional material, popular assent, or other games in the series, is irrelevant REGARDLESS OF CANONICITY. Be particularly mindful of this if you use some external data source to research answers.

Unless a question indicates otherwise, terms have their meaning as used in the game, if there is an obvious application. "You" in a question refers to the player character in any game belonging to the scope. An "item" is something that can be placed in the player character's inventory, not any object visible in the scenery or referred to in dialogue even if clearly identifiable. A "weapon" is something that can be used to make an attack in combat mode, no matter if it could conceivably be used to inflict damage in real life. A "location" is a separate world map location, regardless of any time and distance implied by in-location map or elevation transitions. "Perks" include special perks, but not traits. A "character" is someone who appears in the game, not just anyone who is referred to in any piece of writing; different answers referring to the same person are equivalent. A "quest" has a numbered entry in your PipBoy. And so on.


4. SCORING

The basic rule is this: the score of each participant on a particular question is the number of participants with the same answer or an equivalent answer. For instance, if three people correctly answer "Horrigan", "Frank Horrigan" or "the presidential bodyguard", their score on that question is 3.

If an answer is incorrect or missing, it will incur a penalty score. This is equal to the mean of four numbers: the total number of participants, double the highest number of equivalent answers submitted on that question (whether right or wrong), and the square root of each of those two numbers. All fractions are rounded up.

To arrive at a final score, the scores on the different questions are multiplied together. For instance, a participant in a three-question contest with the scores 1, 2 and 3 would have a final score of 6. The winning total score is the lowest. A perfect score of 1 is possible if a participant submits unique answers to every question.

Most questions will be written so as to produce (or at least invite) unambiguous answers. Sometimes there may be questions that can produce more or less specific correct answers. In this case, a MORE specific answer will usually be scored as if the answers are different, while the LESS specific answer will be scored as if the answers are the same. Note however that there may also be questions asking for categories or abstractions where a specific answer would be worth no more than a general one, or could even be wrong.

Here is a scoring example. The moderator asks participants to name a weapon. Three people answer "10mm SMG", two people answer "Sharpened Spear", two people answer "Spear", one person answers "Rock", one person answers "SMG", one person answers "Shiv" and one person answers "Dracula". Those who answered "10mm SMG" each get 3 points. The person who answered "SMG" gets 4 points because it is a less specific version of "10mm SMG". Those who answered "Sharpened Spear" or "Spear" get 2 points each; "Spear" is not a less specific answer here since there is an item with that exact name. The person who answered "Rock" gets the optimal 1 point for such a discerning choice. "Shiv" is ruled incorrect since that item cannot be used to attack in the game even though it is a weapon on some technical level, and "Dracula" is ruled incorrect because what the heck? The penalty score here is 10, the mean of 11 (number of participants) and 8 (double the highest non-penalty score which was 4).


5. MODERATION

The moderator is solely in charge of deciding whether an answer is correct or incorrect, and whether it is the same as, different from, or a more or less specific version of another answer. There may be requests for clarifications of answers if they present a mystery to the moderator.

Requests for clarifications of questions should be sent in a timely fashion by email or PM to the moderator and NOT discussed publicly (since doing so is likely to hint at some answer or set of possible answers). Furthermore, the moderator must NOT reply in private to any such request. If the moderator decides there's a serious problem with a question, it will be rephrased and reposted here, and those who had already submitted an answer to that question will then be allowed to change it. However, it is more likely the moderator will leave participants to using common sense, since elaborating on a question or definition could very well hurt the idea of the contest just as much as it helps. If you find yourself having to split hairs to justify some obscure answer, it may help to just ask yourself if you might ever feel inclined to challenge such an answer if you were the moderator or another participant. If you find that a question has an absurdly wide scope with some possible interpretation, you can probably assume it's not the one intended.

Moderator calls that are merely arbitrary cannot be appealed. However, if a moderator call is challenged and found to be factually incorrect, it can lead to a rescoring of the contest, especially if it obviously affects the top scores.

The results of the contest will be posted as quickly as possible after the deadline (depends on the number of participants and ease of computation), including a full list of answers given by the top three scorers, a scoreboard featuring the top ten scorers, and a simplified list of all answers to each question with moderator commentary.

---

THE CONTEST

<s>The deadline for this round is midnight on Sun 5th April. Submit answers by PM or by plain text email. Feel free to not all submit at the last minute, since that will slow down the scoring.

Since it's impossible to prevent cheating in this kind of contest (unless you run it in some kind of controlled physical environment), there will be no Defonten poster prizes, but if things don't go all wrong, the winner will be granted a custom title (unless it's SuAside).

The questions for this round are these:

0. Name a named inhabitant of Arroyo.
1. Name a character that you can blackmail.
2. Name a character who may hand you a weapon as a reward or part of a reward.
3. Name a quest whose successful completion unavoidably involves killing someone or something.
4. Name a weapon with a throwing attack mode.
5. Name a unique item that is brought from one world map location to another to solve a quest.
6. Name an item that appears uniquely in Fallout and which also appears in Fallout 2.
7. Name a perk that directly increases damage with some attack.
8. Name a perk that indirectly (i.e. without raising the corresponding skill level) may increase your chance to succeed at some skill check.
9. Name a pre-war company or brand name.</s>

Check somewhere below for the current questions.
 
This sounds like fun. You guys are going dooooown.

Hope a lot of people join in, it would be pretty boring if all contestants submitted unique ballots.
 
There have already been as many submissions as the total number of submissions in the mailing list where I learned of this thing, so we're in no danger of that. (To be fair, in the mailing list the moderator's screwy email was to blame as well as general apathy.)
 
This is tricky. Do I choose the most obvious, thinking no one else will pick those... or the other way around?
Good idea by the way.
 
Darek said:
This is tricky. Do I choose the most obvious, thinking no one else will pick those... or the other way around?
Good idea by the way.
Most people won't take the obvious answers because they think many people will take the obvious answers. Some people will realize this and pick the obvious answers because they know no one picks the obvious answers. The trick is to choose not the obvious ones, nor the obvious non-obvious ones, but the obscure, non-obvious non-obvious answers.

Of course, now that everyone knows the optimal strategy, they'll all use it and turn it into the pessimal strategy...
 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUee1WvtQZU[/youtube]
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IKnowYouKnowIKnow
Worse than playing rock, paper, scissors. (No one ever chooses rock at the first go and all that)

I just went with most of my first impulses. Had to scratch a really ambiguous one though, damn that was a good one... I'll tell when it's over.
 
It occurred to me that I didn't specify a time zone when I named the deadline. The actual deadline is therefore 12 AM CET on Monday, which ought to be 6 AM ET and midnight somewhere in the middle of the Pacific (assuming everyone is now on daylight savings time or else has been destroyed by aliens). In any case this leaves roughly twelve hours for anyone who wants to submit answers.
 
As it turns out I'm a little disappointed with the turnout after all - the reason for my initial optimism was that most of the submissions were made on the first day, and the expected rush of answers near the deadline simply didn't happen. Still, many of those who did submit noted that it was a fun idea, so I'm going to run one more round of this, and then if people still want to keep it going someone else can have a shot at it.

I've been quite a bit more lenient regarding the formatting of answers compared to the original run of contests. Two examples: "Gain Perception increases chance to hit with guns at range" ain't a perk I ever heard of (motherfucker), and "Mauser M96, 9x19mm Parabellum" is not the name of an item in the game. These and perhaps others would probably have been disallowed in those other contests, but it's clear enough what they refer to. This doesn't mean I've been nice about everything, though.

Results!

<hr>
0. Name a named inhabitant of Arroyo.<blockquote>5 - Smoke
2 - Feargus
1 - Lucas
1 - Nagor
1 - Klint</blockquote>I actually had a good idea what would happen with this one! There was one obvious "outside the box" answer, and a bunch of people went for it leaving a handful of other options unselected, nicely illustrating the potential pitfalls of the format.

<hr>
1. Name a character that you can blackmail.<blockquote>5 - Skeev
4 - Dr. Troy
1 - Thomas Moore</blockquote>Interestingly, only Vault City characters here; other possible answers include Pretty Boy Lloyd and the obvious Iguana Bob. Thomas Moore is a tricky choice since he doesn't give or intend to give you anything of value - he justs hands you a sealed briefcase that he wanted you to take and deliver anyway. Still, it is a blackmail, even if it is terrible.

<hr>
2. Name a character who may hand you a weapon as a reward or part of a reward.<blockquote>3 - Smith
2 - Irwin
1 - Vegeir.
1 - Killian
1 - Francis
1 - Mira.</blockquote>Wrong answer:<blockquote>1 - Stark</blockquote>Stark doesn't ever give you a weapon.

Only one Fo1 answer here - other options from there include Michael, Mathia and Talius. It is perhaps noteworthy that poor Mr Smith drew so much attention among all the possible answers.

<hr>
3. Name a quest whose successful completion unavoidably involves killing someone or something.<blockquote>1 - "Murder Carlson in NCR"
1 - Killing the Dragon for Lo Pan in San Fran
1 - Test mutagenic serum on a super-mutant.
1 - "Kill Frog Morton" quest</blockquote>Wrong answers:<blockquote>2 - Stop the radscorpions</blockquote>Can be solved by sealing them in, leaving them to die another day (or tunnel to Oz, who knows).<blockquote>1 - Kill the Shi Emperor</blockquote>Can be solved by formatting the computer and just running for it. Sorry, the computer itself doesn't count as a "kill".<blockquote>1 - Destroy the Super Mutants at the Watershed.</blockquote>Can be solved by intimidating Harry and the mutants into leaving the map.<blockquote>1 - Irwin's quest in The Hub in Fallout 1.
1 - Guarding brahmin for Grisham in Modoc</blockquote>These are not quests.

This was the first of the two tricky questions - as in, they generated a bunch of incorrect answers. And the rules were quite explicit about what "quest" means in this context, too. Other possible answers include Hakunin's plants, Decker's assassinations, killing the Rat God, fixing K-9 (tricky), killing Darion and several more assassination quests in New Reno, NCR and San Fran.

<hr>
4. Name a weapon with a throwing attack mode.<blockquote>2 - Rock
2 - Plasma Grenade
1 - Flare
1 - Refined Uranium Ore.
1 - Gold Nugget
1 - Pulse Grenade
1 - Plant Spike
1 - Uranium Ore</blockquote>Nothing odd here. Would probably have been more meaningful with more contestants, since the duplicate answers become mostly random (or is it DEEP PSYCHOLOGY at work!?).

<hr>
5. Name a unique item that is brought from one world map location to another to solve a quest.<blockquote>2 - NCR Spy Holodisk.
1 - Bishop's Holodisc
1 - Fuel Cell Controller
1 - The key from the military base that sets off the bomb in the Cathedral
1 - Moore's briefcase
1 - Hydroelectric Magnetosphere Regulator.
1 - Mine Parts</blockquote>Wrong answers:<blockquote>1 - Chemistry Journals</blockquote>This item is not used for a quest.<blockquote>1 - GECK</blockquote>You solve the quest as soon as you acquire the G.E.C.K., and what you do with it afterwards makes no difference. It's not unique, either, so this should incur a double penalty!

This question also may have had a few too many possible answers given the relatively low number of contestants; I should perhaps have asked for an item needed to solve a quest.

<hr>
6. Name an item that appears uniquely in Fallout and which also appears in Fallout 2.<blockquote>2 - The .223 Pistol
1 - Alien Blaster
1 - Technical Manual
1 - Necklace
1 - Tesla Armor
1 - Blue Pass Key
1 - Water Chip.
1 - Mauser M96, 9x19mm Parabellum</blockquote>Wrong answer:<blockquote>1 - Fuzzy Painting</blockquote>The Fuzzy Painting is not unique in Fallout: it can be found in extremely rare caravan encounters as well as the flying saucer one.

The "also appears in Fallout 2" part of the question may have been slightly redundant.

<hr>
7. Name a perk that directly increases damage with some attack.
<blockquote>3 - Pyromaniac
2 - Bonus HtH Damage
2 - Silent Death
2 - Living Anatomy</blockquote>Wrong answer:<blockquote>1 - Demolition Expert.</blockquote>While setting off explosives next to someone would be called an "attack" in real life, it's not an attack in a Fallout sense, even if you can make them go off in combat and hit someone.

The only question with no unique answer. The remaining answer appears to be Bonus Ranged Damage.

<hr>
8. Name a perk that indirectly (i.e. without raising the corresponding skill level) may increase your chance to succeed at some skill check.<blockquote>1 - Gain Perception
1 - Sharpshooter
1 - Pickpocket</blockquote>Wrong answers:<blockquote>2 - Explorer
1 - Scout</blockquote>These nominally help you find special encounters in Fallout 2, but to the best of my knowledge there's no evidence that they do so by modifying a skill check.<blockquote>1 - Light step.</blockquote>Light Step gives you a chance of not setting off some land mines if you step on them - no skill check involved.<blockquote>1 - Smooth Talker
1 - Demolition Expert
1 - Kama Sutra Master</blockquote>Each of these can render the outcome of a skill check irrelevant, but after some short deliberation I decided this is not what was asked for.

As you can see this was the second of the tricky questions. I'm sure the ones who got it right will agree with me that it was crystal clear, though! Gain Strength, Ghost, Night Vision and Weapon Handling are alternatives that went unpicked.

<hr>
9. Name a pre-war company or brand name.<blockquote>2 - Chryslus/Chryslus Motors
1 - Apricot
1 - Snap-Off
1 - Jimmy Hats.
1 - Farmer's Best Friend
1 - Med-Tek
1 - Nuka Cola
1 - H&K
1 - SharpWit Inc.</blockquote>This question turned out to have a much bigger set of correct answers than I had envisioned. Not only had I underestimated the amount of company names scattered in the item descriptions file, but I thought of "brand name" as something different from "model name", though of course many model names also fit the definition of a brand name. In any case, the latter aspect didn't matter very much. "Chryslus Motors" is not a designation that appears anywhere in the games; however, since I had decided that "Chryslus" and "Chrysalis Motors" would be counted as the same answer (it would make no difference to the high scorers if they didn't), it can be read as a "corrected" version of the latter. Apricot is a bit tricky since it only shows up in a joke description for the Enclave terminal if you're too dumb to use it; otherwise it's a DataPlex. Still, who's to say one description is less true than the other?

<hr>
Here is the scoreboard. Since I said I'd include the top ten entries and there were only ten in all, there is no "embarrassment cut-off", but people with a score above 10,000 at least ought to feel slightly bad. As you can see, the winner was the only contestant not to get a penalty, although number two was only a factor two behind, and number three got a higher score with two wrong answers than two people with only one.

Code:
                0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
PlanHex         5	4	3	1	1	1	1	3	1	1	180
Jack The Knife  2	5	3	WR  1	1	1	2	1	1	360
Harfold         1	4	1	1	1	2	WR  2	WR  1	672
Darek           5	5	1	1	1	2	1	3	WR  1	900
Hellion         2	4	2	1	2	1	2	2	WR  2	1536
Misteryo        1	5	3	WR  2	1	1	2	WR  1	2160
Kanhef          5	1	1	WR  1	WR  1	2	WR  1	2520
patriot_41      1	5	WR  WR  1	WR  2	2	1	1	6720
zag             5	4	2	WR  2	1	1	3	WR  1	8640
Unkillable Cat  5	5	1	WR  2	1	1	WR  WR  2	28800

<hr>
Here are the answers given by the top three finishers, minus explanations. I'm not sure there's anything in particular to be learned from them, but I'm following tradition here.

PlanHex

0. Smoke
1. Dr. Troy
2. Mr. Smith
3. Killing the Dragon for Lo Pan in San Fran
4. Flare
5. The key from the military base that sets off the bomb in the Cathedral
6. Technical Manual
7. Pyromaniac
8. Gain Perception increases chance to hit with guns at range
9. Snap-Off

Jack The Knife

0. Feargus, your nephew
1. Skeev, Wallace's assistant, Vault City Customs
2. Smith, farmer, Vault City Courtyard
3. Guarding brahmin for Grisham in Modoc
4. Uranium Ore
5. Mine Parts
6. Mauser M96, 9x19mm Parabellum
7. Living Anatomy
8. Pickpocket
9. SharpWit Inc.

Harfold

0. Lucas
1. Dr.Troy
2. Francis
3. "Kill Frog Morton" quest
4. Pulse Grenade
5. NCR Spy Holodisc
6. Fuzzy Painting
7. Silent Death
8. Kama Sutra Master
9. Med-Tek

<hr>
Now, the next contest. The deadline is the end of Sun 12th Apr as measured by Central European Time. It may seem like Russians and such are given a bit less time and Americans and such a little more, but in reality it is the same time for all! Answers by PM or by plain text email as before.

The rules are the same as before, with one possible exception: I will be looking at a few alternate ways of calculating penalty scores. The original formula is a little more complicated than the one used in the first round, but the difference is very small when the number of contestants is small (it wouldn't have made a difference this time). What you need to know for now is that you should avoid incorrect answers.

0. Name a person you encounter that has a name starting with the letter L.
1. Name a character you encounter in their home location who may tell you that they originally came from another location.
2. Name a named character using the male, black, red-shirted character model.
3. Name two named characters, one of whom directly and specifically asks you to kill the other.
4. Name a quest whose PipBoy entry refers to an element of investigation.
5. Name an item that is necessary to complete some quest and that is non-unique in that game.
6. Name an item that may raise or lower your chance of passing a First Aid check.
7. Name a perk that is in both Fallout and Fallout 2 but doesn't have the exact same effect when or after you take one rank of it, and which does not merely add skill points and/or apply a fixed skill modifier; prerequirements are not part of the effect.
8. Name a real-world species of animal that is referred to in dialogue.
9. Name a type of vehicle you may come across.
 
Per8. Name a perk that indirectly (i.e. without raising the corresponding skill level) may increase your chance to succeed at some skill check.

...

Wrong answers:

2 - Explorer
1 - Scout

These nominally help you find special encounters in Fallout 2, but to the best of my knowledge there's no evidence that they do so by modifying a skill check.

So because you don't know the answer yourself, it is automatically wrong? I find that to be a very weak line of reasoning.

I'm sure the ones who got it right will agree with me that it was crystal clear, though!

What about the ones that got it wrong? Are they just supposed to eat dust? If anything, I just showed that "crystal clear" is not applicable here.
 
patriot_41 said:
Stark gives you a Combat Shotgun.

Could someone verify this? I've looked at the script of the only Stark I know of and all he gives you is a Motion Sensor.

Unkillable Cat said:
What about the ones that got it wrong? Are they just supposed to eat dust?

It says right in the rules that you can appeal. If you do, I'll expect you to offer something in support of your claim. "We just don't know that it doesn't" is not enough for that. The contest couldn't be run that way.
 
There are items (not always unique) that appear only in Fallout 1, so that would make a good question. Especially since 90% of games played are in Fallout 2.
 
Per said:
patriot_41 said:
Stark gives you a Combat Shotgun.
Could someone verify this? I've looked at the script of the only Stark I know of and all he gives you is a Motion Sensor.
A motion sensor and money three times, that's it. There is no shotgun in the script!
 
Per said:
<blockquote>1 - Kill the Shi Emperor</blockquote>Can be solved by formatting the computer and just running for it. Sorry, the computer itself doesn't count as a "kill".<blockquote>
kill -9 < `pgrep per`
8. Name a perk that indirectly (i.e. without raising the corresponding skill level) may increase your chance to succeed at some skill check
Wrong answers:<blockquote>2 - Explorer
1 - Scout</blockquote>These nominally help you find special encounters in Fallout 2, but to the best of my knowledge there's no evidence that they do so by modifying a skill check..

umm... indirectly means strictly by modifying a skill check? not a die roll for example?

anyway good job man

doesn't hurt to try again does it?
 
zag said:
Per said:
... perk that indirectly... may increase your chance to succeed at some skill check

umm... indirectly means strictly by modifying a skill check? not a die roll for example?

I think you answered your own question there.

misteryo
 
Back
Top