If Fallout was so influential, then why was Troika the only one that tried to duplicate the experience?
Madness. MADNESS!
Madness. MADNESS!
Fallout: Sixth most influential game of our time
- Thread starter Tannhauser
- Start date
Dracon M'Alkir
Vault Senior Citizen
Brother None said:
Proof of Fallout's influence - we're still here.
If Fallout wasn't as influential as it was, no one would care about a ten year old game anymore.
Dumbed down "RPGs" that shouldn't have been on the list:
Fable - You could become completely evil or completely good by eating food. WTF? Something is wrong with that picture. The skill system, while interesting, left a lot to be desired.
Diablo - 9.5 review from Gamespot. That must mean it's the best RPG ever, right? I know the game was a bit dated, but they could have done a lot better, even back then. This game was simply just a click-fest with a lacking level up system. It may have been influential in the sense that it caused a wave of other shi**y diablo clones, but that not something that deserves applause.
WoW - I hate people that love MMORPGs. If you play them a few hours a week, that's cool. It's not so repetitive then. In my experience, though, this repetitive gameplay somehow seems to stick to people. I like the cigarette analogy, by the way. It made me chuckle a bit.
All the other games at least have some logical reason why they are on the list(From my least favorite to the most loved):
Ultima: Um, I played the NES series. They were fun, even when I was 10 years old. Not the best, but the games left a lot to be discovered.
Morrowind: Mindlessly running around is pretty boring to me. I like meaningful quests and consequences and the such. The saving grace for this game was the editor. Without it, the game was WAY too easy and brain-numbing.
KOTOR: This is, in my opinion, the best way to put an RPG on the console. I hate consoles, but if Fallout3 were more like this in game mechanics then S.T.A.L.K.E.R., I would be a lot happier. F*** FPP combined with RT. The game had an interesting storyline, but the dark/light side system was a joke("You are a jerk" +1 dark side). It also felt way too linear because you had to eventually visit every planet anyway.
Final Fantasy: Airship, freedom, secrets, multiple party members. I'm thinking mostly of FF2, FF3 and FF7, but some of the others have been pretty lacking.
Baldur's Gate: Once again, a lot of freedom, choice between party members, character build, locations to travel to. The D&D ruleset is still one of the best to this day, although it's been going off on a tangent these past few years.
Planescape: Torment: Although it was somewhat linear, the developers had so many choices packed into the game you could play it over and over and over. The different NPCs were awesome and the death of your character unlocking additional dialogue was awesome. Oh yeah, you could be chaotic but not be considered a "bad guy". I always love that in a game.
Fallout 2: While Fallout 1 is right along side with Fallout 2, I definately enjoyed Fallout 2 more. BIS polished up a lot more features to an already legendary game, so what was not to love? The nearly complete freedom was the best in any game, without letting the player forget what the main quest was(Morrowind). You all know about the game and why it's the best, so I'll let you fill in the rest of my answer with your imagination.
While I enjoyed all the other games that at least deserved some kind of spot on a top 50 list, Planescape and the Fallouts are on an entirely different level. The only other RPG that I can think of that possibly deserves to be on the same level is System Shock 2.
I can't wait until August to explore the underwater utopia...
Fable - You could become completely evil or completely good by eating food. WTF? Something is wrong with that picture. The skill system, while interesting, left a lot to be desired.
Diablo - 9.5 review from Gamespot. That must mean it's the best RPG ever, right? I know the game was a bit dated, but they could have done a lot better, even back then. This game was simply just a click-fest with a lacking level up system. It may have been influential in the sense that it caused a wave of other shi**y diablo clones, but that not something that deserves applause.
WoW - I hate people that love MMORPGs. If you play them a few hours a week, that's cool. It's not so repetitive then. In my experience, though, this repetitive gameplay somehow seems to stick to people. I like the cigarette analogy, by the way. It made me chuckle a bit.
All the other games at least have some logical reason why they are on the list(From my least favorite to the most loved):
Ultima: Um, I played the NES series. They were fun, even when I was 10 years old. Not the best, but the games left a lot to be discovered.
Morrowind: Mindlessly running around is pretty boring to me. I like meaningful quests and consequences and the such. The saving grace for this game was the editor. Without it, the game was WAY too easy and brain-numbing.
KOTOR: This is, in my opinion, the best way to put an RPG on the console. I hate consoles, but if Fallout3 were more like this in game mechanics then S.T.A.L.K.E.R., I would be a lot happier. F*** FPP combined with RT. The game had an interesting storyline, but the dark/light side system was a joke("You are a jerk" +1 dark side). It also felt way too linear because you had to eventually visit every planet anyway.
Final Fantasy: Airship, freedom, secrets, multiple party members. I'm thinking mostly of FF2, FF3 and FF7, but some of the others have been pretty lacking.
Baldur's Gate: Once again, a lot of freedom, choice between party members, character build, locations to travel to. The D&D ruleset is still one of the best to this day, although it's been going off on a tangent these past few years.
Planescape: Torment: Although it was somewhat linear, the developers had so many choices packed into the game you could play it over and over and over. The different NPCs were awesome and the death of your character unlocking additional dialogue was awesome. Oh yeah, you could be chaotic but not be considered a "bad guy". I always love that in a game.
Fallout 2: While Fallout 1 is right along side with Fallout 2, I definately enjoyed Fallout 2 more. BIS polished up a lot more features to an already legendary game, so what was not to love? The nearly complete freedom was the best in any game, without letting the player forget what the main quest was(Morrowind). You all know about the game and why it's the best, so I'll let you fill in the rest of my answer with your imagination.
While I enjoyed all the other games that at least deserved some kind of spot on a top 50 list, Planescape and the Fallouts are on an entirely different level. The only other RPG that I can think of that possibly deserves to be on the same level is System Shock 2.
I can't wait until August to explore the underwater utopia...
I tried to play Fable: The Lost Chapters and I couldn't. They didn't even change the control scheme for PC - unforgivable. That's the same reason I couldn't play Lego Star Wars, which is supposed to be a really fun game.
The last console I had was an Atari 2600. I had fun with it when I was 7. When everybody had a Nintendo, I wanted one. When I got into gaming on the PC, I saw what electronic gaming could be. I came to dislike consoles. I now absolutely despise them.
The brainless, spoon-fed characteristics of console games are infecting PC game development. Cross-platform development is doing much to improve the quality of console games, while at the same time dragging potentially great PC games down to mediocrity to make them palatable to anencephalic console gamerz. The PC is capable of so much more, but cross platform development is making it nearly impossible for the potential of the PC to be realized. Konsole kiddiez can have all the EA sports games they want, just get their damn hands off my PC games.
The last console I had was an Atari 2600. I had fun with it when I was 7. When everybody had a Nintendo, I wanted one. When I got into gaming on the PC, I saw what electronic gaming could be. I came to dislike consoles. I now absolutely despise them.
The brainless, spoon-fed characteristics of console games are infecting PC game development. Cross-platform development is doing much to improve the quality of console games, while at the same time dragging potentially great PC games down to mediocrity to make them palatable to anencephalic console gamerz. The PC is capable of so much more, but cross platform development is making it nearly impossible for the potential of the PC to be realized. Konsole kiddiez can have all the EA sports games they want, just get their damn hands off my PC games.
ronin84 said:
I'm not basing my definition of RPG on Fallout (though it would still make a good one, albeit too strict). Diablo is a hack-and-slash with some RPG elements (NPC interaction, character development, etc.). As for WoW, you do have a point, but it's still a pretty weak game strictly as an RPG.
More on topic: I wished Fallout's influence had been greater, as there is a shortage of good RPGs to play...
Meh said:
So, I can have my character blow a hole through your dude then have my character's dog companion piss on your character's rotting corpse? Then top it off by shoving explosives in your character's mouth and yelling, "F***!!" while exploding your character's corpse?
First off, profanity would probably get my subscription banned for your E (for everybody) world.
Secondly, in NO game can you "truly play the role you want". You're limited by what the developers offer you, and the choices you get in MMORPGs (Especially when completing missions), is lacking to non-existent.
At least I was able to truly roleplay what I wanted when I threw down the explosives to Lloyd when he tried to trick me at Golgotha. That part of the game makes be randomly laugh to this day. It's when your imagination and the developer's creation combine to create what you really want that makes a great RPG. Grinding, kiting, collecting phat lewt, all those fall under the category of progressive questing rather than role playing.
Wrong. Try again.
Makagulfazel said:
Yes you can. Imagination is the only limit when you RP.
Makagulfazel said:
As for profanity I've only played WoW and there cursing is forbidden and you could get banned if someone would report you. Don't know why there's "turn off profanity filter" option though.
You can make your own events and stories with your friends, create the history, morals and achievements of your character as you can, you know, in PnP games. It is as real as it can get in a computer game.
Of course I can create all that kind of things up too for example in Fallout you say? Sure, but you won't get any respond for the little details you invented for your character. Arguments against MMORPGs won't work if you ignore the social aspect.
If you've played MMORPGs or know how the roleplaying generally works you know the roleplaying in those games doesn't differ at all from PnP games. It's just the technical things like combat, locations, idiots and such.
Fallout comes close to proper original RPGs with the character sheet and how the attributes work but not even a close when it comes to dialogue and general interacting. WoW is the other way around. If you wonder why some game is on the list even it's not an RPG you should also question why you even consider Fallout as an RPG since it fails in some key areas. Then it comes down to what you define as RPG, but since you consider singleplayer game being one too, I do not see why some multiplayer grinding could not be. And besides where you can put the limit without any biased opinion.
Dracon M'Alkir
Vault Senior Citizen
Wooz said:
Oh man, that's some good humor. Perry Bible and Wooz's humor. Wow.
God is Dog backwards
Mildly Dipped
Cheers for this, blogged it.
Vault 69er said:
Actually, that's nonsense.
Oblivion plays exactly like an MMO, but it's offline. Yet while many claim it is leaning towards simply hack 'n slash, most still file it under roguelike cRPG.
Hell, MMOs tend to be roguelike cRPGs, but online. To say they're not cRPGs just because they're online would be thilly.
Alas, do they present the choice and consequence that ordinary RPGs do? Perhaps, but delivered by a whole new set of measures - the consequence will not come to you as an effect on the game world, but rather other players (guilds etc.). Hence, MMORPGs do tend to present that in a different form.
Silencer said:
"Ordinary RPGs"? TrueForm RPGs like Fallout and the classic series do offer choice and consequence, but it's not inherent of cRPG design. Roguelike cRPGs never offer choice and consequence, or at least rarely, yet they're still cRPGs.
Meh. Perhaps you are right, but in my mind, this leads to reducing RPGs to stats, and reducing RPG to stats makes Diablo an RPG 
Meh, the split is more difficult than that, and will always be up for debate. You can't really define cRPGs by the definitions of pen and paper RPGs, tho', it's simply not fair because the medium is different.
I wish the industry/gaming media would learn to operate in more clear divisions than just RPG and non-RPG, though. It's more complex than that.
I wish the industry/gaming media would learn to operate in more clear divisions than just RPG and non-RPG, though. It's more complex than that.