Fallout Texas (yeah this old thread again)

Discussion in 'Future Fallout Game Discussion' started by The Dutch Ghost, Apr 3, 2020.

  1. Hardboiled Android

    Hardboiled Android Vault Senior Citizen

    Jun 7, 2015
    For some reason the premise of communists in Fallout almost always skeeves me out - probably just because of Beth's over focus on it, but I've just always found the idea sort of repulsive. In general playing with specific ideologies rather than general ideologies in fallout just always comes across moreso like Star Trek than Fallout.

    I do think that the New Texas Rangers* is a great idea, and as a sort of loose form of government that gives you a lot of leeway to hang a narrative off of.

    *Might want to remove the "New" from the name, I think just Texas Rangers is sufficient, or alternatively Wasteland Rangers
     
  2. Post-War Tribal

    Post-War Tribal If I'm salty, u probably deserve it.

    73
    Nov 8, 2018
    Mhm I'd imagine atleast a few tribal factions would roam the area. I'd also belive a heavy presense of arsenal and artillary alike. I Wonder what effect It would have on the region?
     
  3. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Well I wanted an ideological opponent to the Confederacy, one that is about centralization and authoritarian in nature with a political class that in general is a separate group from the common people.
    And I also did not want to recycle Republic vs Confederacy, Yanks vs Rebs.

    One could say "Why not NCR vs the Lone Star Confederacy" but I don't want to stretch the NCR all over Arizona and New Mexico so that it can border on Texas (plus there is that radioactive no man's land).
    I would like to maintain there is quite some distance between any of the newly arisen governments in the former United States.

    Lone Star Confederacy vs Texas Rangers would not work as both in principle are the same; settlements having self rule, but the LSC is more about that focus on financial pursuits will in time improve the conditions and quality of life for everyone (hence why they primarily only want settlements that can help to the continued economic growth) were as the Texas Rangers are less focused on that and rather that the big players don't crush the little guy.

    Plus the Rangers' ideological opponent is more the Cartel, the organized crime gang that seeks to influence control settlements from behind the scenes or extort them for their own personal benefit.
    They don't care who gets hurt or if settlements in general progress or remain the same as long as they get their piece of everything.

    Edit: and for personal reasons the Texas Rangers do not want to take control of any alliance of settlements. In the past their decision led to the destruction of a community.
    The Black Hats on the other hand think they are the most suitable to lead.


    There would actually be quite some tribals in the area; the Kerrs, the Brontes, the Windmill People, the Children of Poseidon, a tribal raider gang that split into two groups that hate each other.
    But I would like to add more to the mix.



    Edit: looking back at this post I feel I kind of lost the point but the idea was that there would be two political systems the player could choose between each with their own strengths and weaknesses.
    One would be about centralizing. They would be more authoritarian in nature but they made sure that economic entities for example would not get out of control and basically take over.
    The other was more about self rule of each settlement in general and cooperation on a number of point but without much central supervision allowing economic entities to twist laws to their benefit and create a wide divide within society, some settlements would benefit but others would suffer.
     
  4. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello all,

    Reviving this topic once more because this idea is just so damn dear and near to my heart despite that I know how incredibly difficult it is to ever realize it if I don't try to get any damn skills of my own or somehow manage to put a team together myself.

    I finally found out how I can link my Google Docs so that people in general can read them. I feel rather stupid that I did not bother to try to find this out earlier.
    It is much easier and better than completely copying and pasting texts here in a topic.

    This thing has been on my mind for the last ten years, if any longer and it has gone through various incarnations as I decided to change, add or scrap ideas.
    Problem is that as a result that a lot of the documents I do have are not compatible or harmonious with another.
    The document I have linked here is a mix of a current version and a more older version which had parts I felt I could much better copy and paste than write all over again.
    But I need to go through this text again to make it all connect better with another. Right now a lot of descriptions have two times the same description.
    I hope people can ignore for now.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XtSt1enMsgEJi6DPcMPf4JI8LUgISg-7k-zE_da7GFM/edit?usp=sharing

    It is intended as a sort of follow up to Fallout New Vegas yet in many ways it is its own contained story taking place in its own region which has been mostly isolated from the events that took place on the West Coast and in the Mojave, Utah, and Arizona.
    Still some information of what has taken place there has made its way to Texas through new arrivals.

    A lot of elements from FO1, FO2, and FNV would return (sorry but I don't care for FO3, 4, and FO76) such as Vaults, Nuka Cola, the remnants and influence of the pre war government and corporations (in particular Poseidon Energy which would play a big role in the main campaign), but a lot of other recurring elements would only make an appearance in a reduced scale or not appear at all.

    -There would be Super Mutants (West Coast immigrants) and Ghouls but a lot of their roles would be handled by new creatures.
    -There would be no Brotherhood of Steel presence though perhaps one of their members could appear to give the player the rundown what has happened to the BOS since the events of FNV.
    -The Enclave make sort of a guest appearance, but no they are not the big bad or any faction the player can join (you'll understand when you read about them).
    -There would be a lot of new factions and organizations including six/seven major ones which play a role in the endgame. (I do wish I sometimes had better names for these factions or background ideas, especially the tribal factions)
    -There would be at least twenty locations in the game, not all of them are major ones though.
    -There would be vehicles for the player to acquire but this would not become 'Fallout meets GTA'. Rather they offer transport and protection bonuses.

    While this idea could work as a FO2/FOonline mod I have been more inspired by FNV and imagine it to play more out like that though with a few differences.
    There is for example no single major world space, each location is its own world space and may include its own smaller locations. Some of these locations would be very big, perhaps big as Vegas or even bigger while others are quite small and primarily exist because they are connected to one of the bigger locations.
    Travel outside these world spaces takes place on an overhead map like in FO1, FO2, and FOTactics.

    Still I have a lot of criticisms of my own on this as well.
    -My writing. Personally I find most of my writing, let alone my creativity plain shit. I very much want to emulate the creators of FO1, 2, and FNV such as Chris Avellone, in ideas and writing but I am barely a shadow of the guy and that is perhaps too much self praise.
    I would like so much to work all of these ideas out more into their own self contained documents like the Van Buren ones.
    Oh lets add my limited skill of the English grammar to that as well.
    -My lack of knowledge on Americana, its history, culture, geography. This is stuff you need to know if you want to make a Fallout set in Texas.
    -Feeling unoriginal in general. Several of the ideas I have in this document are inspired by Fallout fan ideas or mods by other people. I did ask in general if I were allowed to use these as I felt that they were too good to be forgotten.
    There is also a lot of stuff from Van Buren that did not make it into FNV that I would like to bring back.
    Still it does not sit well with me.

    I am sometimes still in doubt about some of the ideas I would like to work with such as the System. I love them how they sound on paper but would they work well?
     
  5. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    If you'd allow me to be critical in what I hope is a constructive way:

    I think you are overall too clinical and have perhaps got a bit lost in the raw logic of fictional politics rather than what makes a compelling setting or place for player(s) to explore. I don't mean this harshly, but there's a reason the Trade Federation are not compelling bad guys for Star Wars even though in the fiction of the setting they have very detailed reasoning about bureaucratic and trade routes.

    It's missing a crucial bit of Fallout pulp flavour. Use New Vegas as an example. Sure, the NCR is a standard liberal democracy and has very detailed background fluff on stuff like trade-routes, Senate corruption and the like but then it's pitted against the context of factions like Caesar's Legion and Mr. House which are very "weird" and unique. If you are writing a new region of Fallout it's not necessary to be completely original (of course), but in looking at the Lonestar Confederacy and the New Texas Rangers, what are you really going to do with them other than trying to make them different from NCR and the Desert/NCR Rangers? The venn diagram is nearly a single circle unfortunately I feel.

    What stood out to me but were woefully underdeveloped was "Clone Station" (Which didn't seem to have any written content?) which immediatley got the gears in my head turning on the weird and wonderful possibilities of a Fallout society that involves cloning in some way. Images conjured to mind of some insane monarchical family made up of various clones, backstabbing eachother in petty feuds and pulling hijinks, or the horrible disfigured Thing like offshoot failures.

    The second thing that stood out was the Signal Listeners. This sounded interesting and weird, I was disappointed to hear they were an effective footnote/plot device. Why not make them a predominant faction? Take the core idea and scale it up. What would a cargo-cult society like this look like if it got what it wanted, took root with the population and became a true society? Instead of the Lone Star Confederacy have some theological new world cult society. Same thing with the Angels, why do they have to be an actual Abrahamic religion? The New Canaanites cover that already pretty well. The Children of the Cathedral certainly weren't. Maybe they have strange rituals involving The Bloom, cultivating it like a highly dangerous garden.

    My advice in the area of writing factions, because I've fallen into the same "trap" as you have, is to start with a base idea that is basically just "cool" or "weird" or "unique", take inspiration from some of your favourite non-Fallout media if you wish. Then, build the nerdy fictional logic around that idea in an ad-hoc justification. Sure, the original premise might mutate with the addition of logic but it's far more likely to retain an interesting core rather than building a "rational" faction from the ground up. Of which you run into the issue of them all being very realistic but ultimately very boring and not very Fallout. Your factions of course need to make some semblance of sense, but Fallout is still rooted in gonzo pulp science fiction. The key to the Bethesda root is to of course actually do that ad-hoc justification and tell a good story with it, rather than just pissing the "weird" idea into the wind and calling it a day.

    I'm looking at the Texas Wasteland: What do I want to explore? I don't really give a shit about the Lonestar Confederacy or the New Texas Rangers, they've got that back in New California. The Angels? I know of a fundamentalist Christian community in the Wasteland, out on the Salt Lake. Clone Station, Robot City and the Signal Listeners speak to me as something new and strange in that vast and wild Wasteland.

    Lastly, deriving from Van Buren is more than okay. I did it a lot myself in writing my PnP Campaign. The key when doing it I feel however is to stop and run through the thought/conceptual trees to see what ideas from Van Buren ended up getting done anyway.For instance, the Bloom is an idea that I can see took its seeds (pun sort of intended) with the Nursery/Diana, but do you not feel it was carried to this exact premise back in Vault 22?

    I apologize if this comes off as too harsh, your work/effort is commendable and these criticisms likely can apply to my own Fallout writing in some way too of course, but I got the vibe you're the type of guy who probably wants to hear stimulating criticism rather than just empty praise. Solid work my man.
     
  6. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    You don't have to apologize, if I did not want a response to my ideas be they positive or negative I would not have posted this on NMA but just keep it to myself.
    Like you said I wanted some feedback from people including their thoughts and ideas as sometimes it can lead to better ideas.

    I just need some time to think about what you wrote me and if they are something I would like to use or that they don't fit my vision at all.

    heh the Angels. Angels of Gaia or Angels of the Earth. It is something worth thinking about.

    Yeah the Abrahamic faith has already been done through the Mormons or New Canaanites. The Angels are originally from the canceled Fallout Europe which was in development around the time of Van Buren but canceled before FNV.
    I rather liked the idea of this fundamental religious group which was fervently anti technology, blaming it for the destruction of the world but still needing some of it such as weapons, radios, and so on to fight the users and disciples of technology.And as Dallas has a lot of churches it made sense to me.

    They are in a way a lot like the Legion. I thought it was best not to bring the Legion back as I have no idea how they would turn out to be after FNV.
    Plus the main antagonist having a grudge against the Legion would be too much like FNV.

    I confess that I got the idea for the Bloom from Van Buren's Nursery and the cancelled Fallout Tactics 2 which would have featured a toxic mutant jungle that was the result of an infected GECK, producing plants that would actually prey on people and go walking around.
    I mostly wanted to have this toxic jungle to explain where all the new plant mutants planned for Van Buren came from along with giant mosquitos and other nasty new insect and arachnid critters.
    It also sounded like a good obstacle why the Angels have difficulty spreading West.
    Edit: it was of course also used for Vault 22 but in a reduced scale.

    Hmm the Bloom would also be hostile towards the Angels so them seeking to cultivate and spreading it doesn't seem to benefit them, unless they are all in tune with the jungle so that it doesn't target them.
    But that feels to very hippy dippy and suggests some kind of psychic powers.

    Still food for thought.

    Science vs Nature works as well as Science vs Religion, heh eco extremism basically being a religion as well.
     
  7. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    It is actually nice to hear that you like the idea or concepts of Clone Station and the Signal Listeners.
    Both were rather random concepts I just came up with when I wanted to expand beyond the core ideas of the main six/seven factions (initially the Black Hats weren't even suppose to be a major thing until I realized I had a concept for a military antagonist for the player separate from the other factions).

    Clone Station came up because I wanted to do something with cloning, finding it annoying and disappointing on how underwhelming Bethesda treated the concept in Fallout 3, randomly inserting it for the lulz and then ignoring it because their game was all about BOS, Super Mutants, and the Enclave.

    I wanted to do something with a faction involving it and I kind of got inspired by other fiction such as the Clone Masters that were suggested in the first couple of Star Wars books by Zahn and the Founders from Deep Space Nine who rely a lot on cloning to create their servants.
    I threw in this agenda of wanting to preserve pure human genetics even though I knew it would make them rather Enclave sounding but without none of the genocide stuff plans.

    When I read on Wikipedia that at Texas A&M University at College Station that the scientists there had cloned a cat I thought that that would make a good place to put a scientific community full of clones there. Even the name of the location can be altered to fit it and feel very Fallout like; Clone Station, hinting at both the place's residents and perhaps some kind of machine.

    The Gardens, which I got from another abandoned Fallout fan idea as well as the Nursery was originally suppose to be a whole separate place but where I had it in mind it would not make much sense.
    The player could bring these two communities together so they could work on projects that would benefit the people of Texas, produce better lifestock and edible plants, perhaps bring some extinct species back, and make Texas green again.
    Then later on I decided that I might as well make the Gardens part of Clone Station as Texas A&M University also has agricultural programs. So the scientists there are both busy with cloning and agricultural research including genetic engineering and storage of genetic samples.

    I need think a while about that family idea you suggested.

    Clone Station would be the source of the D-gens or Degenerates, malformed clones like you suggested but also clones that suffer from Clone Degeneration Syndrome which makes their bodies and minds fall apart.
    The cloning process is not entirely perfected despite decades of work being done on it and the genetics the clone scientists keep reusing over and over is getting "exhausted".
    A lot of the clones are terrified about the idea that they may have CDS, a ticking time bomb in their own bodies.
    Basically they would take the place of the Ghoul type enemies Bethesda forced on us in FO3 and onward but tragic in their own way.


    Yeah the Signal Listeners were sort of a throwaway idea I just randomly came up with when I tried to come up with an idea for a cargo cult, in this case people who thought that the people before the war were communication with satellites in orbit as if they are some kind of star gods, or that the satellites perhaps allow you to talk to gods in space.
    Perhaps the cult even has its origins in the old SETI program, heh perhaps wanting to come into contact with aliens to come and save humanity. (and no, this would not make the damn alien special encounters officially part of Fallout)

    They are somewhat nuts but they are harmless. More importantly they have build up a lot of expertise on using, maintaining, and repairing communication technology, something that quite some people and settlements would value.
    Something the Signal Listeners could use to generate a lot of money for themselves and their faith.

    Right now they are just camped up in the ruins of the Johnson Space Center, part of the Drowned City that has not been completely flooded.

    If you think they could work as a bigger faction.
     
  8. Morgan_

    Morgan_ The Fool

    Jul 3, 2020
    Wanted to think of something more substancial to post here, but just wanted to say that these are some really good ideas. These could easily be in an actual main release game and be great. I like to think I'm good with this kind of thing with my short stories, but this is some well thought out stuff. Hopefully a mod sees this ;D

    And gives credit of course. Ever think of joining a moding group and doing ideation for them? Not sure how you'd go about networking that other than forums, but might be worth a shot.
     
  9. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hey Morgan_
    Sorry that it took a while to get back to you.
    Thank you very much for your compliment.

    While I am happy I have come this far since my initial thoughts for my own dream Fallout project I still keep my mind open that it could be done even better even if that means a major overhaul.
    I want this to be on the level of FNV or the canceled Fallout 3 Van Buren, or Fallout 1 for that matter. Really feeling like a new journey of discovery and new elements, but yet feeling like a Fallout game

    @Atomic Postman,
    I still keep waiting for your response.

    In the meantime here are some more thoughts on my side regarding your comment

    I know that concepts like Lone Star and the Texas Rangers are rather generic like you pointed out, such elements having already appeared in the previous Fallout games such as the NCR and the Desert Rangers.
    Doing something different would be a good move but right now at the moment I find it really hard to come up with viable alternatives that would also really fit the Texas setting.

    At some point I even played with the idea of the proposed Fallout 4 by Black Isle, a Texas Wasteland that was mostly taken over by Caesar's Legion, they being the authorities that ran the place.

    Still I think however that something as expected as the Texas Rangers or a settlement like Lone Star should make an appearance in a Fallout set in Texas.
    It just does not need to be to the extend I perhaps made it to be in my drafts for a Fallout Texas design document, perhaps just centered around one location along with the Lone Star Armory, concentrating the more generic stuff to leave the rest of the region open for the more rarely seen or unusual we have not seen before.

    Personally I am not completely sold on a society run by a religious authority, pre war or post war. Mostly because I feel that religions in general are not that "progressive" when it comes progress and innovation and making people's lives in general better.
    They tend to be often self serving, seeking followers to make the lives of the clergy or the priests or the holy men (and women) easier and rich.

    Perhaps I am a little bit stereotyping all religions but I don't really see any religious societies that would promote/encourage scholars/scientists and technicians/engineers to work out electricity and build a power grid which can bring comforts to the people in general.
    Not when resources could be spend on a new place of worship or tribute.

    Little bit of spoiler alert regarding Fallout Sonora but when I went through the Google translate version of the dialog I understand there is a church or a religion in it, one related to Christianity that is promoting industry and rebuilding.
    Perhaps I got it wrong and it is a religion that worships nuclear energy. Problem with these translations is that they directly translate words but as a result the real meaning or message can become lost.

    I kind of liked that idea though there is a bit more to the concept in Sonora I rather do not spoil for people who intend to play that mod and don't want to be spoiled about the content.

    Back to the Texas Rangers, they and in particular their off shoot the Black Hats would play an important role in the storyline I have made up so far, they playing a role similar to that of the Unity/Master's Army, the Enclave, Black Isle's Dr Presper and his NCR army followers, and FNV's Caesar's Legion.

    Been playing a bit with the idea of what if they were an offshoot of the Desert Rangers who decided to set up operations in the Texas Wasteland but I am not sure how that would work out without the Desert Rangers to counterbalance them. (democratic rule of law vs stratocracy rule of law)
     
  10. ElloinmorninJ

    ElloinmorninJ Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    440
    Jun 25, 2019
    I like your ideas, my only gripe is that this Texas wasteland you created...well, the factions seem to lack much depth. What are their ideologies? By what means do they rule? What do they believe? That type of stuff.
     
  11. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I will try to get back to you soon on that.
    I started writing texts but these became such long articles. I have a bad tendency to do that.

    I would like to summarize the ideologies of various factions in a more short form.
     
  12. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hey ElloinmorninJ,
    Sorry that I have not responded to your question yet but this quite a challenge for me to tackle to write down in a few sentences because I have a tendency to overdo any answer.
    Also the discussion of the last couple of weeks have made me sort of "go back to the drawing board" because some of the feedback made me wonder if I could do something different.

    At least I can answer your question partly

    The (new) Texas Rangers - they are all about preserving law and order, protecting regular people from bandits, slavers, mutants, rogue robots (Angels), helping people with survival (hmm should I scrap this), and preserving ideals of democracy while trying to help civilization to rebuild.

    The Black Hats - The Texas Rangers but much more extremist in their outlook and way to achieve their goals. They also believe that they should deal with any groups or factions with ideologies or goals that conflict with theirs, with military means if necessary.
    While the Black Hats wish to bring back democracy like their regular counterparts the Black Hats believe that most of the people in the Texas Wasteland are not ready for self rule yet, and instead they want to install a stratocracy with themselves in leading positions.

    The Followers of the ATLANTIS - an organization made up of post humanist cyborgs led by the pre war artificial intelligence ATLANTIS that in some regards is a little bit cult like.
    The organization wants to start a new age of science and technology and seeks to acquire the means and the resources to do so. The Followers also believe that humanity should embrace the machine and become a race of cyborgs that are better suited to survive and thrive in the wasteland.
    They are mostly known for the technology and services they trade in.

    The Angels of the Apocalypse - a rather extreme Christian fundamentalist cult whose leaders believe that the destruction of the old world civilization is to blame on humanity straying away from God and becoming obsessed with materialistic things, in particular science and technology.
    They want to convert the inhabitants of the wasteland to their faith and cleanse the world of advanced technology, making people live according to their laws.
    Despite their anti technological stance the Angels do use advanced weaponry and some technology. To purify themselves for having to use these they engage in activities like self flagellation to cleanse their souls of their sins.
    They see mutants as either abominations (such as Super Mutants) or victims such as Ghouls though carrying the taint of science and technology.
    Because the Angels lack advanced means of manufacturing they rely on a lot of forced labor; people they have designed as sinner such as those who know about pre war science and technology who can redeemed themselves of their evil/wicked ways by aiding the Angels' cause through hard labor.

    The scientists of Clone Station - their goal is to preserve pure human genetics to ensure that pure humanity can one day reclaim Earth.
    Though it sounds that it makes the scientists of Clone Station much like the Enclave the scientists are not hostile towards outsiders or have any plans to exterminate them.
    Through their work and research the scientists hope in time to eliminate or cure the possible mutations the current human population may have (caused by mutagens such as radiation) and restore the species to its pre-war baseline form.
    To ensure that the scientists themselves to don't pass any possible mutations on to any offspring they increase their population solely through cloning which also allows them to limited their own numbers.
    Later on I also thought about that the Clone Station scientists seek to preserve pre war animal life and plant life, or trying to adapt it to the conditions of the wasteland through genetic engineering.
    Or that they seek to produce useful research that could help with rebuilding the Texas Wasteland, turning it from a radioactive dustbowl in a more fertile land.
    I also played with the idea that the scientists sought to clone the most capable, intelligent, and talented individuals from the past such as statesmen, scholars etc, who like their original counterparts could help with rebuilding.


    There is a bit of an overlap between the Texas Rangers and the Lone Star Confederacy. Both would have the same goals in general; helping people survive, rebuilding, promote trade and relations between settlements, fight the anarchy and chaos in the wasteland, and protect the population from outside dangers.
    Main difference between the LSC and the NCR in the West was that the LSC was based an a lot of the foundings or principles of the Confederacy of the United States (minus the slavery), rather than a centralized government each member, settlements in this case would in general rule and administrate their own territory as they want, but would come together to decide on matters such as national laws and regulations (laws that for example are in effect in the areas between the settlements), cooperation regarding trade, aid during emergencies, and state defense (in case some neighboring power decides to expand into Texas)

    While this all sounded great on paper, ensuring every settlement a degree of autonomy and fair representation in the parliament, in general it did not work out that well.
    Lone Star itself, the capital, is an economic and military powerhouse. It was founded by wasteland survivors and Vault Dwellers who were brought together by the Texas Rangers.
    Having the numbers, the resources, and the knowledge, these people founded one of the most advanced cities in Texas, providing goods and services other settlements would come to depend on.
    Eventually they would even found their own army in order to protect their borders and keep bandits, mutants, Angels, and the System (if I use them) at bay.
    But Lone Star would have more power and influence than any regular LSC member and be able to influence other members to their benefit.
    One of the major industries of Lone Star is the Lone Star Armory, probably the biggest weapons and munitions manufacturer in Texas that employs a great deal of people and which goods and services are in much demand.

    In order not to slow down its growth and the profit it was making the LSC would be very selective in which members it would allow to join, excluding those settlements that would be a drain on it. These settlements would not enjoy the economic and protective benefits of the LSC.

    The LSC also sought to absorb the Texas Rangers into their organization, making it part of their law enforcement and military.
    But the Texas Rangers organization refused, its leadership did not want those settlements and communities that could not join the LSC and could not afford its the price of its protection undefended and prey to the various hostiles in the wasteland.
    The Texas Rangers would also have a personal reason why they would not want to get political, a great shame from the early days of the organization that still haunts its leadership.

    But now that I think of this again I am kind of playing with the idea that I should either merge the Texas Rangers with Lone Star, they being part of the founders and the protectors of the settlement. (so not Texas Rangers but Lone Star Rangers)

    Or I am playing with the idea that perhaps Lone Star is sort of like a company settlement. Lone Star Armory is not just its biggest business and employer, it is also its government, landlord, police, utilities provider, tax collector, and protector.
    The city would be run by the LSA and other companies and businesses that have stores and factories here. Edit: oh and perhaps shareholders.
    Rather than citizens the inhabitants rather are employees, and a certain degree of productiveness or usefulness would be required for an employee to live here.
    Perhaps their leadership's philosophy would be that rather than a democracy that a government and a nation should be run like a business. That it encourages the most capable and talented to lead.
    Food for thought.


    There was also this group I called the Bliss Bringers who were sort of like a hippy commune, a little bit like the vagrants of Fallout 2, though in a way they were also a little bit like a cult too.
    Their founder or one of the founders would be a chemist or someone with some chemistry knowledge who had found some pre war pharmaceutical research by Med-Tek regarding an experimental drug called Bliss that Med-Tek was developing for the military.
    Bliss was intended for soldiers and officers suffering from mental ailments and PTSD caused by experiencing extensive fighting and seeing people around them dying in terrible ways.
    Bliss was to relief patients from the shock they were experiencing or suppress it so much that it would no longer affect a patient any more.

    Problem was, the current version of Bliss has some flaws. It either suppresses people's more negative feelings emotions completely until the drug wears off or could have the complete opposite effective and cause people's mind to be completely overrun by negative emotions such as anger, making them go berserk.

    The Bliss Bringers would be using plants from the Bloom to produce the drug and sell it to anyone who wanted to suppress their bad memories or feelings but still remain normally active.
    I had the idea that some unscrupulous people such as business owners and the Cartel want to have the recipe for Bliss. The business owners wanted to use it to keep their disgruntled employees under control (people who are badly paid, have to work in dangerous conditions, etc) while the Cartel simply wanted to have both a new product and eliminate someone moving in on their drugs trade.

    The Bliss Bringers themselves would have a camp or a settlement somewhere in the Bloom or near it where other than manufacturing Bliss, and perhaps growing food for themselves, are pursuing their own personal goals, or do whatever activity members want to do when they are not doing their part for the community.

    But Atomic Postman after reading my ideas for the Bloom suggested perhaps a group or a faction that seeks to spread the Bloom across the Texas Wasteland and neighboring states in an effort to make the South green again.
    The drawback of this is is that the Bloom is a toxic mutant jungle, it produces dangerous mutant lifeforms, and some of the plants also prey on humans.

    I have been thinking about making the Bliss Bringers into a more cult like group which I call the Bloom Tenders, though I am not really sold on the idea but neither did I think the Bliss Bringers were that good either.
    They are a little bit more eco extremists/terrorists who believe that the old humanity caused the destruction of most of the natural world with their civilization and wars, and that the survivors continue to damage mother earth or Gaia.
    The Bloom Tenders want to restore nature to its rightful place or something, believing that the mutations of the plants have given them the ability to protect themselves from those who would use/consume them or destroy them, the insects that feed on the mutant plants and are mutated through that providing another layer of protection.

    Perhaps the Bloom Tenders use Bliss in order not to be attacked by the Bloom's plants and creature population.


    Dammit. I did not mean to make this such a long text again.
     
  13. Atomic Postman

    Atomic Postman Vault Archives Overseer

    Mar 16, 2013
    Perhaps Lonestar isn't a confederacy or a state in the typical sense, but could be an oligarchy or "merchant republic", basically the most important merchant barons from the region banding together. Either into a council of merchants or a single company ala the East India Trading Company (Lonestar Trading Company) that's somewhere between trading company and a country in their own right. Their "Rangers" could be employees of the company that act as mercenaries. Town guards, caravan guards, debt collectors. In contrast to the Desert Rangers out West that imitate the original Texas Rangers, these "Texas Rangers" are only rangers in name only. "Ranger" could become a synonymous term with morally apathetic hired guns and paid thugs rather than heroic cowboys, as in their western counterparts.



    This is all true, and why I think they'd make an interesting faction. To some extent they'd need to build a base of support for their people or secure the ability to provide something (Money, resources, shelter etc) because in the Wasteland that's your source of power. People come to your religion for the food and water you can provide, and the faith second. That's how you cultivate followers, by being their primary sources of support/life.

    Similarly, throughout real-life history religions particularly the more organized have made political power plays. The upper eschelons of a religious faction may be trying to build a theocratic nation. They can be religious without being blindly stupid. Just take a look at the history of the Catholic Church.
     
  14. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    I actually started playing with that idea as I mentioned in my previous post. To make it different from the NCR or the Lone Star Confederacy, what if it was more like a business organization or alliance.
    A merchant republic like you are suggesting.

    Not the ideals of democracy but rather the driving force of business bringing settlements together and rebuilding civilization. Perhaps this sort of mentality that a government or a nation would be much more effective if it was run like a company.
    I guess it would be kind of like the Hub but on a larger scale.

    I have the idea that the merchants of Lone Star would not control other settlements directly but they would have a lot of influence through trade and investments, reshaping other towns into smaller versions of themselves, or satellites.

    Hmm, wouldn’t hurt to talk with someone who has a better deal of understanding on this subject.

    One of the negative results would of course be that it would create a class of “have nots”, people who can not compete for one reason or another, being forced to move on or become a poor underclass that can be exploited.
    And I guess a form of slavery in the shape of indentured servitude.

    I need to think for a while on this take for the rangers but I am not saying that it could not work.
    At least they would not be described as your standard mercenaries or soldiers even if they are basically such a type of force.

    Would this actually make sense in the Texas setting?


    Since talking with you about the subject I have become a bit more hesitant of Texas having its own group or organization of Rangers, because like you mentioned it would basically be the reuse of an existing concept in Fallout again, something I have often complained about in other threads. (Bethesda keep ripping off or milking Fallout 1 and 2, having no ideas of their ownb)

    Even been rethinking that the Black Hats are perhaps Desert Ranger exiles from the West, having split of from the main organization because differences in how they should achieve their goals, perhaps being driven to Texas after the Legion rose to power and started to take over Arizona and New Mexico.

    That was kind of my mindset behind the Angels of of the Apocalypse, they are not just a roaming band or army of technology hating Christian fundamentalists, they actually seek to establish a nation in Texas.
    They would have a lot of food and water and other resources because of the settlements they control, and they do protect those settlements that have accepted their laws.

    I admit that in the context that they exist now that they are very two dimensional, much like the Caesar’s Legion in FNV.
    They sort of started out as a higher tier enemy for the player to face along with possibly the soldiers/shock troopers of the System.

    I even felt it would be better to use the Angels instead of the Legion which I considered first to have a presence in Texas, inspired by what ideas the team of Black Isle had during the development of Van Buren; Caesar’s Legion having moved past New Mexico after their defeat in the West by NCR whose army managed to resist and destroy a significant number of their forces.

    But now I am wondering, should I perhaps bring the Legion back? Use my Fallout Texas idea as an opportunity to develop the Legion more, work out their organization, culture, etc?
    Reason why I am a little hesitant is because I don’t know what ideas MCA, Sawyer, and others had for the Legion after New Vegas (or back during their Black Isle days)

    Bringing them back would mean I would have to drop the Angels as I feel the two organizations are too similar in many ways. An expansionist army that seeks to control and convert everyone to their ways, has an industry based on slavery.

    Personally I like them as an antagonist faction but they are rather stereotypical to the Post Apocalyptic genre and Fallout sometimes took such such stereotypes and gave them a whole new twist so that they would not entirely feel like an old idea being reused.

    I would actually like to ask people what they would think would be better. The return of the Legion or a faction similar to it but original to the region.
     
  15. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    Re: The Legion.

    I think Caesar's Legion being around would be pretty natural. They own New Mexico. They're a expansionist superpower. They have immense might, not just military but economical as well. Not having the Legion would be like the NCR not appearing in a Fallout game in, say, Eastern Nevada. The Legion is the 200-pound Gorilla in the room.
    I think it would be interesting to explore the Legion deeper.

    Perhaps there was a Legion invasion in the recent past, and it got beaten, or the whole thing petered out because the supply lines simply weren't there? Maybe both? So the Legion filled Texas for after the Legion manages to subjugate the West.

    Perhaps have a Legion settlement somewhere on the border between Texas and New Mexico? A city or town which recently accepted overlordish of the Legion in exchange for its benefits. And it turns out that... they're running a pretty decent ship up there. They don't have much freedom, but the brahmin carts run on time.

    Re: Angels and Legion

    Why not both? Remember, convergent evolution is a thing. Dolphins and Whales, Fish and Ichthyosaur look very similar to each other, but Dolphins and Whales are Mammals, Fish are, well, fish and Icthyosaurs were aquatic reptiles, and they all evolved similar forms independently. Did you know most animals called "Crab" aren't even real crabs? In fact, there's a tendency for aquatic arthropods to evolve crab-like forms, which is called Carcinisation.

    So there's a lot of potential for those two different, independently-evolved organizations to interact.
     
  16. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello Slaughter Manslaughter,

    Re: The Legion

    Some of the subjects you bring up are also reasons I thought why it might be interesting to explore the Legion beyond its army to see what its philosophy and workings are like for those who are not Legionaries.
    What the Legions offers to those who willfully submit to the Legion and live under its laws.

    I have been thinking about the idea that the Legion could more easily spread through Texas because they did not face any major opposition there unlike the New California Republic, Desert Rangers, and the Mormons, the people in Texas being more divided because of scarcity of essential basics such as food and water.

    The Legion got beaten in the West during the second battle of Hoover Dam and is now focusing on the East instead.

    Re: The Legion and the Angels.

    Parallel “evolution” or development along similar lines is definite not uncommon, in nature or in organizations, I will not deny that.

    I BTW recently watched a video about Carcinisation so the topic is pretty fresh on my mind. I did not directly the workings towards organizations instead of just organisms.

    But after talking with Atomic Cowboy about the similarities between the Angels and the Legion, both organizations/factions driven by a higher ideal/religious goal. For the Legion it is Caesar and his vision of a new Roman empire that will bring law and order to the wasteland and uniting humanity under one leadership, for the Angels it is spreading their particular form of Christianity, converting others to their faith, and creating a Christian nation in which people will live according to God’s laws.

    Both practice slavery, the Legion because Caesar does not want his Legion to become dependent on pre-war technology (it and pre-war knowledge possibly making members of the Legion start asking questions) so it instead uses slaves for industry.
    The Angels see advanced technology and science as things that drove mankind away from God, becoming false idols pre-war humanity worshiped because of the comforts and power it gave, and eventually causing the war. They also need slaves for labor and manufacturing but also treat it as a way of making sinners/technology lovers repent their wicked ways.

    Both prefer to target primitives/tribals for conversion to make the males into soldiers and officers (or missionaries and spies), while women are good for breeding, maintaining the household of Legionaries/Angels, and religious duties such as priestesses/nuns.


    That did make me question sometimes if Fallout really needed another version of the Legion.
    Atomic Cowboy reminded me that new Fallout settings/scenarios allows for the exploration of new ideas, ideologies and philosophies that were fringe or obscure before the war or are completely new, products born from people born in the post nuclear wasteland based on their needs, interests, or observations.

    As this group would have to be a counter or opposite of a group that seeks to restore pre-war technology and science and make humanity embrace it I started to think about some sort of nature worshiping cult. Nature worships or worship of Mother Earth after all is also a very recurring theme or concept in various human cultures.
    And plenty of nature worshipers can be quite militant, think for example eco terrorists.

    They see perhaps humanity’s obsession with science and technology and the machine industry it produced that depended on raw material taken from nature/Earth and polluting and destroying it in return as one of humanity’s greatest mistakes or sins. Sacrificing the world for comfort, luxury, and power.

    When the Bloom appeared, a toxic mutant jungle that is the result of a terraforming experiment gone wrong, that is not only rapidly spreading across the wasteland but is also aggressive towards anything threatening it (a lot of the plants are predatory, some are even ambulant and hunt animals and humans), this group (well a cult now) sees the Bloom as mother nature fighting back against those that seek to exploit it.

    Instead humanity should seek to live in harmony with nature and as the cult has found ways to extract food, water, and components for medicines from the Bloom, they see this as proof that their philosophy is right.

    I would not make them absolute technology haters as they do use what they have salvaged, in particular pre-war police and military gear and weapons for their soldiers.
    They just don’t want a new machine industrial era that relies on abusing nature.

    If I would use the Legion as the more human religious slaver faction than this cult might make a good technology hating faction that has a philosophy and agenda that actually offers something.

    Perhaps the cult has also found ways of using the Bloom and the mutants it produces for their war against machine users, organic weapons such as bombs or pheromones with which they can control mutant insects and make them attack people.


    Atomic Cowboy also brought up the issue of reusing Christianity again after its appearance in FNV by the Mormons.
    Now I like to think that Christianity is still widespread in the Fallout universe but I see kind of the of putting much focus on it again, and this time in general for a group that is in general considered a “hostile” one.
    Evil technology hating Christians have also been quite used so that it also gave me some doubts.


    It would have been interesting what a war of between the Legion and the Angels would be like. The Legion would encounter a foe that is in many ways just like itself.
    Soldiers that don’t rely on pre-war technology much, don’t use tactics that involve armor and artillery in general, are as dedicated to their cause as Legionaries are to the point that they are willing to sacrifice themselves to gain success for the cause.
    Have an increased tolerance of pain because they practice self-flagellation to “cleanse” themselves for the sin of using advanced weapons (assault rifles, grenade launchers) and technology such as radios.
    Whose children are prepared to take up arms and fight as soldiers when called for it.
    And whose women are completely dedicated in their own ways to the faith, either slitting their own throat than being used to breed Legion mongrels, or stab Legion males and their children in the back.

    Even Caesar the irony would probably not be spared that the greatest threat to his empire is a Christian empire.


    The Angels and the nature cult could both be viable.


    My biggest question remains is; what do I actually want to do with this?
    Making it a game mod/total conversion or a complete stand-alone game is the biggest dream but I cannot program, make art, or have any other useful game making skills.
    I also do not know people who do have these skills and would be willing to work with me on such a project.

    Make it into a module for a pnp rpg? My main problems with that is that I lose focus so quickly, especially when I am stuck on something.
    And I have so often started over on this idea because there was something about an earlier version that I did not like.
     
  17. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Bit of an update on my attempt to write a design document for a Fallout Texas setting and campaign.

    After talking with Atomic Postman and some other people here I decided to scrap a lot of my old ideas because I just did not really feel that they were that good.
    And I still don't feel that many are that good.

    Only a handful that I really feel hit that Fallout vibe I get from Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas. Things I could have seen work in those games.
    The frustrating part is that I do not know where I am going wrong with this and how I can make it sound better.

    For now I have been trying to skip as much as possible with writing down long background stories, focusing on describing the concepts instead.
    Once I feel that I have determined which ones are the best I would really like to work them out in full detail.

    I realize now that I would really like to collaborate with some people on this, if just to be able to throw thoughts and ideas around.
    And perhaps other people can tell me what sources I should check out for inspiration.

    https://1drv.ms/w/s!AmkLBlNHmqGQgR14S8-eNrKUe41s?e=N3j7wA

    https://1drv.ms/w/s!AmkLBlNHmqGQgR-hYwMwk6O7ybUH?e=qEggQS

    The ideas that work best for me are:

    The Lone Star Trading Company and Lone Star
    The Black Hats and the Alamo
    The Followers of the ATLANTIS
    The Cartel and the Corpse
    The Founders/Clone Master and Clone Station
    The Bloom and possibly the nature cult
    The Machine Intelligences and Robot City
    The Prospectors and the Drowned City (though I feel this maybe to much of a VB Denver ripoff)


    What is my intention with this?
    I genuinely want to write a full design document; factions, locations, characters, quests, dialog etc. and then start looking for people who would want to collaborate with me on such a project while I try to lean some useful skills of my own.

    What I am really looking for are interesting ideas such as the Glow in Fallout 1. Helios One, REPCONN, and perhaps Vault 22 in Fallout New Vegas. And planned locations for Black Isle's Fallout 3 such as the Nursery, the Reservation, and Burnham Springs.

    I would really like Poseidon Energy to stick out more as they play an important role in the main quest I have in mind. So it is only fitting that a lot of their remnants are spread around Texas like power plants, R&D centers, various projects they are working on.

    Likewise I would also like to have Greenway's Hydroponics make an appearance but I genuinely do not want to rip off Van Buren's Nursery.