Far Harbor weapons say Bye Bye to Realism

"Bowling ball launcher" So they really do just go with whatever stupid idea they come up with.
Todd: "Guys, we have this new expansion, and we need something really extremly crazy that is over the top!"
Art-team: "Such as?"
Todd: "I am not sure ... like the nuke luncher, or bawlingballs? You're the art team! Figure something out"
After a lot of work, the Art-team Presents the nuke-luncher concept art, but with bowling balls
Todd: "That's it!"
 
Realism is a bit of an iffy subject in the Fallout universe in general, at least when comparing it to the real world. BB guns did an insane amount of damage in Fallout 1 as previously stated and although I find it really amusing how much trouble they went through to make sure that the Wasteland could be scientifically feasible (the nuclear bombs they used actually cause long-lasting fallout), at the risk of sounding like Emil you also get mutants and ghouls.

What I care for is internal consistency; if something is implied to work like the real world or has already been established a certain way, it shouldn't be changed without explanation. I don't know where that leaves us with these weapons (except the radium gun and the Striker; fuck those things) but I just wanted to throw in my two cents.
 
Since when did Fallout have weapon realism? Remeber In F1-2 where a BB gun did more damage than a rifle?
The key word here, is verisimilitude. No one here would suggest that the BB gun was anything else but a small little "gimick" that you simply laughed off. That was the point of it after all. More or less as a joke. And that's what those things usually are, exceptions. Where as Fallout 3 and now even more so Fallout 4 make the joke to the rule. The question is not if it makes sense, but if it's ridiculous and fun. The rule of cool. Like I said, exceptions are OK, New Vegas sure contained its ridiculous weapons. But it also had a ton of good looking weapons too that felt plausible and believable. Where as Fallout 4 ... not so much. The number of weapons is already relatively small, and many of thise make-shift garbage doesn't really feel that Fallout in my opinion. It doesn't even look believable, like in Metro for example.
 
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Hooked weapons aside, is that an ARMOR PIERCING BASEBALL BAT?

A blunt striking weapon.. that pierces armor.

It's not that they don't understand how guns work, it's the more general misunderstanding of how everything works that really starts to get under my skin.

PS: A high damage air rifle is not even close to being outside the realm of possibility. I have a one pump airgun that shoots at 1000 feet/sec and with a good pellet it actually does similar damage to a rifle. They currently make much better ones that you pre-charge with pressure, that people hunt deer and coyote with here in the US.
 
A blunt striking weapon.. that pierces armor.

It would make more sense if it ignored a percentage of armor since there were medieval weapons like warhammers that could kill knights due to kinetic energy. Then again, its a wooden bat and there´s the super sledgehammer which lore wise does that by default.
 
It took them making an expansion to actually add Skill Checks? Too little too late on that one.

"Bowling ball launcher" So they really do just go with whatever stupid idea they come up with.

That weapon was in Sunset Overdrive, which is exactly what I thought of as soon as I saw that.
 
This discussion is like a cheese grater on my brain. Not because anyone here is wrong, but the fact that you all are completely correct.

Why Bethesda, why are you so stupid?

I enjoyed the gimmick joke weapons the originals had simply because they were rare and far between. But turning all the weapons into "magic" defeats the power unique weapons once held.

My question is this, what is the point?
 
well the point here, is apparently the same as it was in point lookout.

They want their wierd mutant hick/raider enemies in the DLC to be hard, but can't think of any possible way to do it without resorting to the laziest programming ever and just upping damage values on weapons regardless of their design or purpose.

same deal with the bullet spongey enemies in the rest of the game, and their insistence on refusing to use DAMAGE THRESHOLD in favor of percentage based DR which has repeatedly been shown to be a far inferior armor system that just allows you to kill something insanely big and powerful with a stupidly underpowered weapon if you grind at it enough and fire upwards of 1000 rounds at it.

So rusty old lever action guns and pitchforks/boathooks will yet again trump power armor and purpose built military laser guns.

This is the new gold standard of Bethesda game design and we shouldn't be surprised by it anymore.
 
They want their wierd mutant hick/raider enemies in the DLC to be hard, but can't think of any possible way to do it without resorting to the laziest programming ever and just upping damage values on weapons regardless of their design or purpose.
It's actually even worse. They don't just up damage values, they add special scripts to the weapons so that in the hands of the enemy they do bonus damage to the player. If that wasn't bad enough, the damage is directly applied to your health, negating all armour and perks. It literally just knocks 35 points off your health (varies per weapon, 35 is the tri-beam Overlords use iirc) directly.

Challenge? What's that? Something Bethesda regularly confuses with difficulty.
 
At this point I've stopped caring. The next DLC could be an Enclave moon base with the Lone Wanderer and it wouldn't get more than a slightly deeper than usual exhalation from my nostrils.

Bethesda do how Bethesda do.
 
If you hit something in a thrust very hard with enough velocity (at least beyond the speed of sound), you might pierce it without crushing it (provided you don't break your bat).
Or your arm.

However, you're only partially right. Since there is the effect of the so called, Shatter Gap. What kind of effect is this?
During WW II, a phenomenon known as shatter gap resulted in hits with too much penetration failing to defeat the armor.

The British noted this oddity in Libya and other North African areas, where rounds that could penetrate beyond 1000 yards would fail at shorter ranges, or hits would fail at short range and then start to penetrate further out.

The theory on shatter gap is that when hits penetrate on half the hits at a given velocity (the basis for most penetration data), there are certain impact forces on the projectile nose. If the velocity is increased and the armor thickness is held constant, the round moves armor out of the way faster, which leads to increased inertial forces on the ammo nose.

If the projectile nose is too soft, such that it absorbs much of the impact energy, the nose can shatter and break up. U.S. and Russian ammunition fell into the shatter gap nose hardness range (less than 59 Rockwell C). While British ammunition was harder than the threshold, some characteristic of the projectiles made it vulnerable to shatter gap.

With regard to Tiger armor, shatter gap normally occurs when the armor thickness is close to, equal to or thicker than the projectile diameter. U.S. 76mm APCBC hits on Tiger armor would fall into this category.

If 76mm APCBC hit the Tiger driver plate at 12° side angle, the resultant resistance would equal 109mm at 0°. With shatter gap, rounds fail when they have 1.05 to 1.25 times the armor resistance, which would result in M10 failures from point blank to 550 meters range, and then penetrate from 550m to 750m.

On M10 hits against the Tiger side armor at 30° side angle, the resistance would equal 103mm at 0°, and M10 hits would be expected to fail from point blank to 800m, and then penetrate from 800m to 1000m.

U.S. Navy tests during WW II against 3" armor at 30°, using 76mm APCBC, resulted in 50% penetration at about 2069 fps impact, and then the hits failed from 2073 fps through 2376 fps.

Firing tests with 75mm APCBC did not appear to result in shatter gap failures, suggesting that impact velocities above 2000 fps would be required for nose failure.

Prior to Normandy, the Americans calculated that their 76mm gun would be sufficient to stop Panthers and Tigers, since the 100mm frontal armor on those panzers could theoretically be penetrated to 1250m by M10's and 76mm armed Shermans. Shatter gap may be responsible, in part, for the sorry showing of those guns in France against heavy German armor.

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Better increase the the speed of the bullet/nail/bat to something that is close to the speed of light, that way, you have entirely new forces coming at play here, and you will not just penetrate but also obliterate the armor. You can get effects where the mass of a marshmellow could generate enough power to work like a small nuclear explosion. To achieve that speed, is of course a whole different kind of question.

But we are in a Bethesda game, so just let a talking ghoul from a fridge to the shooting and everything will go.
 
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Wow what a twist. Beth saying goodbye to realism and basic logic? I did not see that coming. I apologize for the sarcasm. Let's hope it doesn't get any worse.
 
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