Firearms and their relation to crime figures

[Sander]

Except of course, the studies published in the US. You refuse to even look at their argumentation, despite the quite distinct possibility that they're actually correct.

And you for some reason value US studies over studies made in the Netherlands. I find that very strange, unless of course you are doing this for trolling purposes.

No, I value peer-reviewed studies over non-peer-reviewed studies. More importantly, I try to look at all studies if I have the time and evaluate their arguments and data separately. I don't try to eliminate a study before I even look it just because of the country where it was produced.

Besides, am I supposed to think that Dutch studies are automatically superior to US studies or something? I don't know of any Dutch studies anyway.

 

[MutantScalper]

Except of course, the studies published in the US. You refuse to even look at their argumentation, despite the quite distinct possibility that they're actually correct.

And you for some reason value US studies over studies made in the Netherlands. I find that very strange, unless of course you are doing this for trolling purposes.

No, I value peer-reviewed studies over non-peer-reviewed studies. More importantly, I try to look at all studies if I have the time and evaluate their arguments and data separately. I don't try to eliminate a study before I even look it just because of the country where it was produced.

Besides, am I supposed to think that Dutch studies are automatically superior to US studies or something? I don't know of any Dutch studies anyway.

Yes because somehow us Euros are supposed to fight the US gun laws battle. To be honest I don't really care what goes on over there, I'm more interested in that they don't entrench themselves in Europe like NRA did after the school shootings in Finland by opening a 'branch office' here.

Let them sort their own shit out.

 

[Sander]

Yes because somehow us Euros are supposed to fight the US gun laws battle. To be honest I don't really care what goes on over there, I'm more interested in that they don't entrench themselves in Europe like NRA did after the school shootings in Finland by opening a 'branch office' here.

Let them sort their own shit out.

I'm not talking about or interested in anything like that. I just want to know the impact of gun control on violent crime.

 

[MutantScalper]

Yes because somehow us Euros are supposed to fight the US gun laws battle. To be honest I don't really care what goes on over there, I'm more interested in that they don't entrench themselves in Europe like NRA did after the school shootings in Finland by opening a 'branch office' here.

Let them sort their own shit out.

I'm not talking about or interested in anything like that. I just want to know the impact of gun control on violent crime.

...in the US.

 

[Sander]

Yes because somehow us Euros are supposed to fight the US gun laws battle. To be honest I don't really care what goes on over there, I'm more interested in that they don't entrench themselves in Europe like NRA did after the school shootings in Finland by opening a 'branch office' here.

Let them sort their own shit out.

I'm not talking about or interested in anything like that. I just want to know the impact of gun control on violent crime.

...in the US.

No, in general. The US is the most studied subject for fairly obvious reasons, which is why most papers use that or part of it as a case study.

 

[Deleted member 53669]

If you do not value a peer-reviewed study that sociologists spent fucking years accumulating data, and crunching that data, then sending it to other sociologists doing the same thing, and then having it deduced for inconsistencies, then formally presented after this whole process that takes data from everything....things you wouldn't even consider as factors...

Then do your own fucking field work.

After getting those graduate/post-graduate credentials that even makes you qualified, and employing armies of undergrads to make the project possible.


This "IMHO" shit is for the birds.

 

[MutantScalper]

Yes because somehow us Euros are supposed to fight the US gun laws battle. To be honest I don't really care what goes on over there, I'm more interested in that they don't entrench themselves in Europe like NRA did after the school shootings in Finland by opening a 'branch office' here.

Let them sort their own shit out.

I'm not talking about or interested in anything like that. I just want to know the impact of gun control on violent crime.

...in the US.

No, in general. The US is the most studied subject for fairly obvious reasons, which is why most papers use that or part of it as a case study.

Well you are free to look at those studies and hold them dear. So far they haven't managed to make US any safer when it comes to gun violence.

 

[Sander]

Well you are free to look at those studies and hold them dear. So far they haven't managed to make US any safer when it comes to gun violence.

Because those studies aren't mirrored in their gun laws. More importantly, because violent crime isn't caused by guns, but by a host of different factors which are hard to control.

 

[Deleted member 53669]

Make the US safer?

The United States is, and always was a violent country.

Globalization and new-age ethics developed by the free-market and business empires are also about 1/3 American estimated. America made up the largest portions of the Industrial/Enlightenment paradigms of the last 20th century.

Just because you can't handle the chaos of the molten melting pot of humanity that is America, doesn't mean that you should force your own regulations from your balkanized little region of stagnant GDPs.

This is, however, the 21st century. Mechanical Industry is being outsourced to the 3rd world, and service industries are taking over the developed world.

Everyone wants to be at the top of the pyramid, as it has always been.

The global economy fluxes quite well with the unstable political environment of the world today, but the quite drastic economic changes and old-world stigmas effecting people on a sociological bases cause violence and poverty to appear in areas overnight. America has always been prone to this, and that is more of a factor in determining crime rates than gun laws.

Finland seems to be doing just fine crime wise, and they are all manic depressive, suicidal rifle crack-shots.

 

[Yoshi525]

Like I said I do believe in the figures that the US government provides about their high gun deaths. I don't really have an option but to accept those numbers. So it's not like I don't accept anything that comes from the States.

Are you Richoid in disguise?

 

[Bad_Karma]

Just a short bit about 'peer-viewed' and reliablity:

They're only more reliable if the 'reviewer' is reliable. So if you've got as author some 'G.W. Bush.' and as 'reviewer' some 'R. B. Cheney' i wouldn't say it's much more reliable than a study that wasn't reviewed.
And actually some studies seem to imply that this whole thing isn't too reliable.

But than again it's propably one of the only things to check somewhat for reliability - Well other than doing your own study.

 

[Deleted member 53669]

The academic community as of current are anal retentive objectivists, and are varied in agenda and opinion. Forum is the bases of these communities.

It's obvious you know nothing about the academic research community, nor have taken a gander at one of the huge databases that are used to catalog these studies.


If there was a better way to verify the validity of a study, it would already be in practice.

That's why they are developing AIs and AGIs.

 

[DammitBoy]

High-Capacity Ammunition Magazines: The Common Thread That Runs Through Mass Shootings

That's funny and also quite full of factual errors.

In the first place the 'violence policy center' is a left wing ban all guns organization like the brady group. what data do you think they'll present except biased data?

Secondly, the 'facts' they present are either horrible attempts at lying or show a complete lack of knowledge about firearms, or both.

The Hassan shootings on the military base used standard magazines that fit the weapon and did not extend below the bottom of the pistol grip. Same with the Va. Tech shooter - standard magazines.

The definition of an 'extended hi capacity magazine' is that it is non-standard and EXTENDS below the magazine well of the firearm. In other words, it holds more bullets than the manufacturer originally intended.

15 round magazines that fit within the well of the grip are not high capacity magazines.

The entire pdf you linked to is full of distortions and outright lies.

 

[Bad_Karma]

The academic community as of current are anal retentive objectivists, and are varied in agenda and opinion. Forum is the bases of these communities.

It's obvious you know nothing about the academic research community, nor have taken a gander at one of the huge databases that are used to catalog these studies.


If there was a better way to verify the validity of a study, it would already be in practice.

That's why they are developing AIs and AGIs.

Yeah sorry, but your wrong in that i don't know anything about science. But hey - nice rant. Than again you might check how many articles/studies were proven to be false/wrong in the last year or how many studies exactly tried to look into problem about peer-reviews. Because all i said was that peer-reviews have problems and are only a small sign of how reliable a study really is.

There is something better than what i'd call peer-review (but hey english isn't my mother tongue). Doing more studies. But well that's allready in practice.

 

[Deleted member 53669]

Who validates those new studies smart ass?

And what are current findings measured against?

 

[Bad_Karma]

Who validates those new studies smart ass?

And what are current findings measured against?

What's your problem?
That i say even though something is reviewed we've still to be critical of it and review it ourselfs if we're able to it? And that we can't trust results from a paper just because it was reviewed?

And sorry, but peer-review as i use it and know it, is just the process of a few persons (often two) reviewing an article/study before it's published and not the whole discussion in the scientific community thereafter.

But hey another insult, so discuss this matter from now on with yourself.

 

[Shoveler]

High-Capacity Ammunition Magazines: The Common Thread That Runs Through Mass Shootings

That's funny and also quite full of factual errors.

In the first place the 'violence policy center' is a left wing ban all guns organization like the brady group. what data do you think they'll present except biased data?

Secondly, the 'facts' they present are either horrible attempts at lying or show a complete lack of knowledge about firearms, or both.

The Hassan shootings on the military base used standard magazines that fit the weapon and did not extend below the bottom of the pistol grip. Same with the Va. Tech shooter - standard magazines.

The definition of an 'extended hi capacity magazine' is that it is non-standard and EXTENDS below the magazine well of the firearm. In other words, it holds more bullets than the manufacturer originally intended.

15 round magazines that fit within the well of the grip are not high capacity magazines.

The entire pdf you linked to is full of distortions and outright lies.

If you cram anymore logic in this thread someones head will pop. People just don't seem to get that if someone is bound and determined to kill, they will do so, whatever the weapon may end up being. No matter if it's legal, or illegal. Do guns make it easier to kill? Maybe, but it's pretty easy to ram my car at highspeed into a group of people buying movie tickets also.

 

[DammitBoy]

Do guns make it easier to kill? Maybe, but it's pretty easy to ram my car at highspeed into a group of people buying movie tickets also.

Not if we outlaw movie kiosks!

 

[Wintermind]

Do guns make it easier to kill? Maybe, but it's pretty easy to ram my car at highspeed into a group of people buying movie tickets also.

Not if we outlaw movie kiosks!

And cars. I mean, do you really need a car that can do more than the legal speed limit anywhere?

 

[DammitBoy]

Do guns make it easier to kill? Maybe, but it's pretty easy to ram my car at highspeed into a group of people buying movie tickets also.

Not if we outlaw movie kiosks!

And cars. I mean, do you really need a car that can do more than the legal speed limit anywhere?

Gun control is like trying to solve drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars...