Ardent said:Pixote hasn't played the game yet, so he doesn't know...
The shame of it all...
FO2 Mechanics Overhaul Mod
- Thread starter JimTheDinosaur
- Start date
The shame of it all...
The main formula changes are in sfall yes but for YAAM to work properly changes had to be made to DR mod values ammo has which YAAM uses as a DT mod value.
I would imagine you could use your proto inventory method, identify specific ammo protos and change the DR values as YAAM has them, all via script.
But to balance things correctly, values need to change in ammo and armor, and possibly weapons. You can see what I was beginning to play with here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...MzVPT1pMaDZtWnc&single=true&gid=0&output=html
You have to compare to original values yourself to understand where I was going, bare in mind I was thinking I could balance things this way in conjunction with may damage formula fix. I only gave up because I found out all proto files that I change would need to be updated on all maps or I would have to do it via sfall scripting which I had no skill at.
I'm not trying to sell you on my ideas, just hoping that my feedback helps in some small way.
Sorry to confuse things, but I'd prefer to have the Codex thread serve for the more "philosophical" side of things, and this thread for the technical side.
But yeah, that's pretty easy to script (at least, if I understand you correctly, namely that it's just a matter of switching the DR-mod values in the original for the new DT-mod values and that all the real magic gets done by Sfall). To give you an idea of just how preposterously easy it is:
Code:
if (get_proto_data(PID_10MM_JHP, 48) == 25) then begin
set_proto_data(PID_10MM_JHP, 48, 2);This constantly (every map entry the game rechecks the protos) resets the DR (now DT) mod to a new value.
I'll definitely use your calculations Glovz, shouldn't be too hard to put them all into a global script (I never really looked into your stuff before because I always assumed from the Sfall options that your calculations are in "competition" with those of YAAM, and I'm just such a big fan of the DT/DR switch
)@Jim
Haen helped me a great deal and I hope I influenced him in some small way. So whether completing or not, I tend to think of it as offering variety.
But, yes a choice in sfall must be made; YAAM or my FIX, both affect the same code in the exe.
I do understand the approach taken in YAAM; but given all the discussion previously had in this forum about ammo, armor, and weapons, how things should have worked, and most people's reluctance to stray too far from what they already understood about the game, I just tried to work with what was there and bring (in my mind at least) more out that should have been.
Not sure if that makes complete sense, but I hope you get it.
Haen helped me a great deal and I hope I influenced him in some small way. So whether completing or not, I tend to think of it as offering variety.
But, yes a choice in sfall must be made; YAAM or my FIX, both affect the same code in the exe.
I do understand the approach taken in YAAM; but given all the discussion previously had in this forum about ammo, armor, and weapons, how things should have worked, and most people's reluctance to stray too far from what they already understood about the game, I just tried to work with what was there and bring (in my mind at least) more out that should have been.
Not sure if that makes complete sense, but I hope you get it.
JimTheDinosaur said:
Sure, but how do I know you're not some uber code-master outside of Fallout modding? You could possess knowledge that comes in handy when modding the game, that I have no idea of.
Yeah, it makes sense that it should be stable if everything happens all over again on map entry. Both my systems rely heavily on global variables and functions embedded in the player's script. Through countless hours of testing, I think the problem lies usually in random corruption of gvar value.
For instance, I have to save on a gvar the last time of eating, or the next time your HP is going to be subtracted and I believe these values might get corrupted every now and then on game save/load or on exiting the map.
My current plan for the bleeding system in MR is to rewrite it with slightly different features and use more sfall to drive it.
No problem, mate, you said yourself you've been around here for three months only, so we have already called off our bounty hunters and the holy inquisition.
I have a question for you guys. I'm working on a replacement for AC that just looks at ricochets, and this is what I've come up with so far:
In the ricochet wiki there's four variables governing the likelihood of a ricochet, and because I'm fairly confident that these are all represented in Fallout already, I didn't feel like looking further:
-Type of bullet (how soft/likely to fragment is it): the DT/DR mod of the bullet
-Velocity of bullet: AC-mod of the bullet (at least, in the descriptions of ammo which happens to have a high AC-mod, this high value is always explained by their velocity EDIT: wait, no it doesn't. No idea why I remembered it this way. Oh well, then I'll just use something like weapon range/target distance to simulate bullet velocity)
-Hardness of outer surface: DT-value of armor
-angle of approach: how off-center the attack is from the bodypart hit (I'm well aware that this assumes a somewhat spherical shape of the armor, but unless any of you has a reasonable alternative, it's good enough).
This is all reasonably simple to incorporate; the only thing I don't really have a clue about is how this would affect non-bullet attacks. Melee/unarmed I assume would also be straightforward (only with factor 3 and 4 exclusively involved of course), but I haven't a clue if electricity ricochets, or plasma. I imagine that the reason why Laser damage is so abysmal in the game is because of ricochets, so maybe it would be a good idea to greatly reduce armor's laser DR and DT, and instead just give laser damage a big ricochet penalty. What do you think?
In the ricochet wiki there's four variables governing the likelihood of a ricochet, and because I'm fairly confident that these are all represented in Fallout already, I didn't feel like looking further:
-Type of bullet (how soft/likely to fragment is it): the DT/DR mod of the bullet
-Velocity of bullet: AC-mod of the bullet (at least, in the descriptions of ammo which happens to have a high AC-mod, this high value is always explained by their velocity EDIT: wait, no it doesn't. No idea why I remembered it this way. Oh well, then I'll just use something like weapon range/target distance to simulate bullet velocity)
-Hardness of outer surface: DT-value of armor
-angle of approach: how off-center the attack is from the bodypart hit (I'm well aware that this assumes a somewhat spherical shape of the armor, but unless any of you has a reasonable alternative, it's good enough).
This is all reasonably simple to incorporate; the only thing I don't really have a clue about is how this would affect non-bullet attacks. Melee/unarmed I assume would also be straightforward (only with factor 3 and 4 exclusively involved of course), but I haven't a clue if electricity ricochets, or plasma. I imagine that the reason why Laser damage is so abysmal in the game is because of ricochets, so maybe it would be a good idea to greatly reduce armor's laser DR and DT, and instead just give laser damage a big ricochet penalty. What do you think?
*she's, actually.JimTheDinosaur said:Thanks! I sure hope Timeslip'd be proud; I think he's the only one who can help me out with the scripts.
Timeslip (Fallout 2) and Wasteland Ghost (Fallout 1) are female.
Okay, please continue despite my derailment of the thread.
Sduibek said:*she's, actually.JimTheDinosaur said:Thanks! I sure hope Timeslip'd be proud; I think he's the only one who can help me out with the scripts.
Timeslip (Fallout 2) and Wasteland Ghost (Fallout 1) are female.
Okay, please continue despite my derailment of the thread.
Thanks for the info and the derailment!
I have another question for you all about difficulty modifiers:
I hadn't implemented these yet in the hookscripts I'd made not so much because I'm lazy, but because I don't really like these arbitrary "the game is harder and therefor the enemy will cheat itself into aiming better and doing more damage" things. A harder game should have smarter enemies, that's the only way it should work (I'm not making an easy mode; you shouldn't be using mods on a first playthrough).
Now, how would you accomplish smarter enemies? My idea is this: in hard mode, the enemy is assumed to always make the right decision. Does a swing with a melee weapon do more damage than a thrust in this particular attack? The AI "swings" (that is, in the calculation he does). Occasionally, this will seem more like cheater than other times, such as in the case of AP ammo doing more damage than JHP, and the script then calculating the AI as having used AP ammo even when that's not in magazine (or inventory). But I think this is acceptable because of the simple reason that it's impossible to tell the AI to take armor into account.
What do you all think? Are there other possibilities for an interesting hard mode?
Here's what I think will be the final content update (that is, unless it ever becomes possible to change the damage formula properly). I already probably made way to many changes, and should just focus on fixing/balancing issues you report if any of you ever ends up using it 
. Oh, and making it compatible with UP/RP of course.
Attribute Changes
First, I've raised the cap on max strength. It makes sense that of the attributes that can be raised to super-human levels, strength should be the most obvious candidate. Of course you still can't reach higher that 10 strength with perks or at character creation, but it makes little sense that they would take the effort to make power armor, but restrict its capabilities to the level of an extraordinarily strong human. Same goes for Super Mutants: what sense does FEV make if the only result is that of a particularly strong human being? This change has allowed me to put the minimum strength requirement for weapons at the level I wanted it, namely "recoil" (2,3, or 4) + weapon weight divided by 3 (so a minigun is at the reasonable super-human requirement of 13 to handle perfectly, and the 10mm pistol remains at its original 3 strength minimum).
The second thing I've changed is that bulky armor now affects agility (not improved chance to hit, as it did before in my system). Now, starting with metal armor you (and all other critters) suffer a -1 penalty to agility, and starting with Power Armor, this becomes a -2 penalty.
Also, one unrelated change I've made is that the supply and demand system has gone from the ridiculous original price divided by item amount formula, to a formula of original price divided by 1 + amount * 0.2 (so, every five items present on the map halves the price).
. Oh, and making it compatible with UP/RP of course.Attribute Changes
First, I've raised the cap on max strength. It makes sense that of the attributes that can be raised to super-human levels, strength should be the most obvious candidate. Of course you still can't reach higher that 10 strength with perks or at character creation, but it makes little sense that they would take the effort to make power armor, but restrict its capabilities to the level of an extraordinarily strong human. Same goes for Super Mutants: what sense does FEV make if the only result is that of a particularly strong human being? This change has allowed me to put the minimum strength requirement for weapons at the level I wanted it, namely "recoil" (2,3, or 4) + weapon weight divided by 3 (so a minigun is at the reasonable super-human requirement of 13 to handle perfectly, and the 10mm pistol remains at its original 3 strength minimum).
The second thing I've changed is that bulky armor now affects agility (not improved chance to hit, as it did before in my system). Now, starting with metal armor you (and all other critters) suffer a -1 penalty to agility, and starting with Power Armor, this becomes a -2 penalty.
Also, one unrelated change I've made is that the supply and demand system has gone from the ridiculous original price divided by item amount formula, to a formula of original price divided by 1 + amount * 0.2 (so, every five items present on the map halves the price).
I would reconsider the Agility drop with Power Armor, considering it's powered and all. The lore specifically says it's designed to not hinder mobility.
On the other hand, animation while running in power armor is slower than all other armors, so who knows.
On the other hand, animation while running in power armor is slower than all other armors, so who knows.
Sduibek said:
Lore is written specifically to justify certain design decisions/oversights. If power armor had decreased agility then the lore would have said that becoming a human tank took place merely at a minor cost to mobility.
What matters to me in making these changes is a combination of gameplay and "realism" considerations, and to me it makes sense that power armor would hinder mobility and make sneaking harder; meaning that a thief character would think twice before donning it. But hey, the change is optional.
Personally I'd love to remove frames to make running in it faster, but I don't know how to do that.
EDIT: Should be clear but I wasn't trying to shit on your ideas or anything. I love restoring balance and/or realism through modding
EDIT: Should be clear but I wasn't trying to shit on your ideas or anything. I love restoring balance and/or realism through modding
Hey Jim
Is it possible to give (script) a high skilled (100+) unarmed character the ability to disarmed an armed critter...so imagine "Bruce" runs up to his opponent and does his fancy moves and flicks the weapon out of his opponents hands onto the ground, before attacking them. Now maybe it will need to be a targeted attack on the opponents hand, and maybe the weapon can fall a random number of hexes (1 - 5) away.
It would give unarmed skill a need boost IMO, what do ya think?...
Is it possible to give (script) a high skilled (100+) unarmed character the ability to disarmed an armed critter...so imagine "Bruce" runs up to his opponent and does his fancy moves and flicks the weapon out of his opponents hands onto the ground, before attacking them. Now maybe it will need to be a targeted attack on the opponents hand, and maybe the weapon can fall a random number of hexes (1 - 5) away.
It would give unarmed skill a need boost IMO, what do ya think?...
I thought that kind of functionality was already included in the weapon drop mod?
.Pixote. how hard would it be to remove some frames from the HAPOWRAT animation to make it appear like the running is faster? How labor intensive is that process?
.Pixote. how hard would it be to remove some frames from the HAPOWRAT animation to make it appear like the running is faster? How labor intensive is that process?
.Pixote. said:Hey Jim
Is it possible to give (script) a high skilled (100+) unarmed character the ability to disarmed an armed critter...so imagine "Bruce" runs up to his opponent and does his fancy moves and flicks the weapon out of his opponents hands onto the ground, before attacking them. Now maybe it will need to be a targeted attack on the opponents hand, and maybe the weapon can fall a random number of hexes (1 - 5) away.
It would give unarmed skill a need boost IMO, what do ya think?...
I'm pretty sure I already tried that the "easy" way, namely through the hs_combatdamage script, which allows you to set/change special flags on hits. I toyed around with a lot of things (you can do stuff like have every hit cripple you and the opponent, pretty funny), and I seem to remember that the weapon drop thing didn't work very well. But I'll give it another try in a little while just to make sure.
But like Sduibek said, there's a more difficult workaround you could always use, like the one of the weapon drop mod. Just have hs_combatdamage set a sfall global flag whenever the one making the hit has (a) no weapon and (b) over 100 skill and (c) some random number.
EDIT: Or is already included in there? No idea.
Sduibek said:
Easy peasy...open the Frame Animator and change the number of frames per second from 18 to what ever number you like. With the higher the number the faster the animation will flow, so 36 frames should be twice as fast as 18. You can do this to any animation in Fallout, critters, scenery, etc...so if you want your Ghouls to run faster just up the frame numbers, but remember it will effect all critters using that animation, so if you want Vic to run faster, well then Big Jesus Mordino will also run faster.
Awesome, thanks.
Zaius238
Art by Phoenix-Private
Jim, can you make a guide for stupid people like me? How do I install this mod? 
Sorry for still not having added a readme (I have now by the way). I mainly didn't do so because I assumed most people don't play with a regular install anymore (it's incompatible with Restoration Project and Unofficial Patch until the final release comes out in a couple of weeks). On the off chance that you do have a clean install, this is what you do:
To install you can make a folder titled Patch000.dat in the game directory, use Dat Explorer or another program to extract the original Patch000.dat file in that directory, then put the .int files from the mod in the scripts folder. Now all you should do is write protect the "maps" and "proto" folders (right click on the folders and go to the permission options).
Edit: I mean I've added a readme now.
To install you can make a folder titled Patch000.dat in the game directory, use Dat Explorer or another program to extract the original Patch000.dat file in that directory, then put the .int files from the mod in the scripts folder. Now all you should do is write protect the "maps" and "proto" folders (right click on the folders and go to the permission options).
Edit: I mean I've added a readme now.
Zaius238
Art by Phoenix-Private
Thanks for the help, but I still have a question:JimTheDinosaur said:
I created a new folder named patch000.dat after moving the original file to desktop, used datexplorer to extract all the files to the new folder, copied all the .int files from your mod, but I don't know if I did in the right order, there are some files with same name (like glhealth.int) in your folder.
Anyone else who sucessfully installed this can give me a hand? I would be really grateful. This is driving me nuts.
Sorry, the overlaps are the result of everything being installable separately; should have explained it better though. I'll update the readme and I'll just post the info here too:
All the mods work separately, though this does mean that there are some duplicate files. Most of these are identical, except for the Morale System, which has unique versions of many files. So, if you're installing it without the morale system, just install whatever you want in whichever order, but if you're using the morale system you have to install that one last (so overwriting all the previous files).
Hope it's clear enough now (and that it works of course).
All the mods work separately, though this does mean that there are some duplicate files. Most of these are identical, except for the Morale System, which has unique versions of many files. So, if you're installing it without the morale system, just install whatever you want in whichever order, but if you're using the morale system you have to install that one last (so overwriting all the previous files).
Hope it's clear enough now (and that it works of course).