UniversalWolf
eaten by a grue.
I'm going to give it a try along with the newest RP when I finish my FIXT playthrough, which should be soon.
FO2 Mechanics Overhaul Mod
- Thread starter JimTheDinosaur
- Start date
-RavenWolf-
First time out of the vault
JimTheDinosaur said:
Great work man!
I really like the approach you are taking on making the game more realistic and balanced.
I also like the changes on traits/perks, specially the proposed perks that change the behavior of NPC in combat, as they can add new and fresh gameplay.
I have some perk/traits related suggestions:
-Kamasutra master: Trying to figure an improvement to this perk I realize that it can be a good option to make sex a morale booster (like alcohol) so this way, sex can have a real gameplay effect.
The perk can double the amount of morale recovered by having sex.
-Gambler: original + gaining money with gambling makes you recover morale based on the amount of money gained
-Pyromaniac: should also increase damage in 15%-20% (like bonus HtH). Also, molotovs do explosive damage, It will be cool if they get changed to fire damage too.
-Silent death: seems good in concept, but compared to other perks of that level its useless. First, having to be in sneak mode isn’t relevant as you can activate/deactivate in combat at no cost. So the double damage bonus should apply to every backstab.
It should also add a passive critical chance bonus based on the sneak skill (like sneak/15 to critical). Also like in FOnline it shouldn’t require unarmed, so melee fighters can pick it without having to waste points in unarmed.
-Adrenaline rush: I like the addition of the morale loss reduction effect. But the ST bonus has a very little impact, maybe raise ST to 2 or change the bonus. Some options can be to raise directly melee damage and chance to hit or maybe AP.
You can also try to add Die Hard from FT. It works like Adrenaline rush but it give a bonus in DR
With those perks, will be possible to make a new kind of berserker build.
May be, even a new trait can be implemented to foment this kind of play:
Berserker: +10% melee damage and chance to hit when hp are below 75%, +xDR +yDT when hp are below 50%, +2AP +15% melee damage when hp are below 25%. Armors only give 50% of their resistance values and stats
I like traits to have an effect in the gameplay, like fast shoot, finesse or sex appeal. But most traits on fallout have a very little impact (small frame, fast metabolism, good natured) or are useless (bruiser, night person, chem. reliant/resist)
-Bruiser: I see a problem with this proposal, as once a enemy start to run away you wont be able to catch it again, this can be very frustrating if you don’t have a ranged weapon.
The increased knock back chance is a good improvement to the melee build but it can be swapped to heavy handed (like in FOnline). If instead the bonus of the trait can be useful to ranged builds, the trait will be more interested and still have a heavy drawback
This trait can increase your hp instead, like ST*3 (up from ST*1), so it can be more beneficial for ranged builds, specially big gunners as they need high ST.
-Small frame: Due to your small size you are less likely to be hited, but you don’t have much resistance.
Effects: +2*AG to hit penalty for enemies shooting at you (kind of inverse kamikaze penalty).
HP gived by endurance are reduced to 3*EN (instead of 5*EN)
-Gifted: This trait need a nerf, it makes the game a lot easier and it drawback is easily overcome putting part of the SPECIAL points on IN. A simple solution can be to reduce the bonus from +7 to +4 (+1IN,+1ST,+1AG,1EN).
-Good natured: Not sure, but may be some way to allow you to resolve most quest without having to fight. But when in combat, you have more chances to enter in panic (specially against humans)
Drug related traits
The main problem with those traits (and the drug system) is that the addiction status comes immediately after the use of a drug, so it can be easily denied loading and saving the game before using drugs. So if this can be changed, like making the addiction appears some time before the drug effect wear off, those traits can have a real use.
That’s all for now.
Keep up the good work!
Small detail: changing molotov to Fire damage in the PRO file causes oddities, so for this to work it would need special coding or something, unless Fallout 2 processes that differently than Fallout 1.
Jim do you know of a way to modify the death type that something causes? I.e. changing a grenade crit to cause explode death versus the current which is side blown out death.
Jim do you know of a way to modify the death type that something causes? I.e. changing a grenade crit to cause explode death versus the current which is side blown out death.
Sduibek said:
Thanks for the heads up, was already wondering why they did that. I can always just have the Pyro perk raise the damage of Molotov cocktails independently.
You can use this hookscript:
hs_deathanim1.int
Runs before fallout tries to calculate the death animation. Lets you switch out which weapon fallout sees
int arg1 - The pid of the weapon performing the attack. (May be -1 if the attack is unarmed)
critter arg2 - The attacker
critter arg3 - The target
int arg4 - The amount of damage
int ret1 - The pid of an object to override the attacking weapon with
Theresnomagicandthatsok
First time out of the vault
First off thanks for resurrecting Fallout 2 as the unforgiving monster it should be. Frankly this is the first time I have confronted the Khans and felt fear. I have died a lot. Thanks for that. It is fun again. First time playing again in years.
I have a few suggestions.
Loot: I value the low ammo philosophy you have implemented. It creates a need to react on the fly to resource issues. There is however a downside. In a Hard difficulty fight you can dance around cover and other stalling tactics till the mobs use all their ammo. With Jinxed the waiting/dance period is far shorter. Then it is a slug fest. Which means a melee character with HtH Evade, Stonewall and Bonus HtH Damage chews mobs up like a long haired narcoleptic in a machine shop. This makes for an easy, albeit lengthy, mop job.
"Then why take those perks? Why play in that way?"
The rules of the game compel me to. I can't play rationally and make choices that are intentionally foolish for the sake of role play. Others can and I don't want to minimize that style of play. It is the keystone tool for many to enjoy/justify taking the time to play a game.
“Well what are you saying should change? That's the problem what do you propose as a solution?”
1: Assign in maps, to the npc's, more ammo and give them a far higher chance to hit and do damage in melee combat. And once the fight is over do one of two things.
a. Leave the npc inventories untouched and undermine the starvation motif of the mod.
b. In the ini file give an option to (turn off) a script to reset the npc inventories at the time that the game switches to the no hostiles in the area flag. I don't know how hostiles in area/no hostiles in area is determined in game.
2: Assign along with the map inventory initialization a buff to the skills of each creature in the area based on locale and player level. Making the handicap a product of two variables both the area and the player level. In some ratio as to keep the “Oblivion Everything Is Always Your Level” effect which so cripples the ability to create 'scary' areas. Like 7 parts area and 4 parts player level. With the extensive rehaul to hit chances this seems like it could be impossible or unwieldy.
Each of these present upsides and downsides. I welcome feedback.
Furthermore I have a concern about random encounters. They are as follows.
-Enclave encounters- The formula of PPK12, Plasma Pistol and Yk2B in 3 man and similar default load out 6 man'.
-Default arrangement of mobs into the 6 mob hexagon, 3 and 6 man line and the less rigid 'Press Gang' formation. Do we have the ability to create spawn points that override the default formations?
-If we can make the above changes can we also rework the random encounter locations to provide more cover for all groups involved that coincide with their new or default formations. Rather than have a sudden Dodge City shootout. For example one group on one side of the Bridge keeper's bridge. The bottle neck could prove to be interesting.
-If it is in fact possible to make all the above changes to random encounters then that is a whole can of worms. I have made technical documents before. If we figure this out I would want to create an ini to register new encounters and the tutorial with which to allow people to both put in their own or publish their own somewhere here on NMA.
-And can we make changes to have mobs bodies be salvageable with repair to provide parts to recreate said armors. If I shot him in the head his jacket is fine. This must be implemented in a way as not to ruin trading. Gambling is the heroin of skills so making repair another would be equally unsavory.
-Also I think a set of options which increase loot and ammo and such. This would need to involve an increase in vendor stocks in my opinion.
-If we have figured out how to modify prototypes on the fly then we might be able to create a prefix and suffix system for items. A jury rigged plasma caster would be less accurate and/or less powerful. An old laser pistol would eat up more ammo. A well kept combat shotgun could decrease spread or reload or fire faster. The list goes on. And such a list would make adventuring in the wasteland more varied.
I have not modded since Smackrazor put out his tutorials. I can refresh myself on scripting and attempt to make these changes myself. However your help or collaboration would be greatly appreciated. In any case I think this should be attempted and one or both of us will make that happen. The improvement of the game can't stop.
Thanks for all the work you have done so far. Yourself and the other modders who have worked on Fallout over the years took something good and made it great. No reason to stop now.
I have a few suggestions.
Loot: I value the low ammo philosophy you have implemented. It creates a need to react on the fly to resource issues. There is however a downside. In a Hard difficulty fight you can dance around cover and other stalling tactics till the mobs use all their ammo. With Jinxed the waiting/dance period is far shorter. Then it is a slug fest. Which means a melee character with HtH Evade, Stonewall and Bonus HtH Damage chews mobs up like a long haired narcoleptic in a machine shop. This makes for an easy, albeit lengthy, mop job.
"Then why take those perks? Why play in that way?"
The rules of the game compel me to. I can't play rationally and make choices that are intentionally foolish for the sake of role play. Others can and I don't want to minimize that style of play. It is the keystone tool for many to enjoy/justify taking the time to play a game.
“Well what are you saying should change? That's the problem what do you propose as a solution?”
1: Assign in maps, to the npc's, more ammo and give them a far higher chance to hit and do damage in melee combat. And once the fight is over do one of two things.
a. Leave the npc inventories untouched and undermine the starvation motif of the mod.
b. In the ini file give an option to (turn off) a script to reset the npc inventories at the time that the game switches to the no hostiles in the area flag. I don't know how hostiles in area/no hostiles in area is determined in game.
2: Assign along with the map inventory initialization a buff to the skills of each creature in the area based on locale and player level. Making the handicap a product of two variables both the area and the player level. In some ratio as to keep the “Oblivion Everything Is Always Your Level” effect which so cripples the ability to create 'scary' areas. Like 7 parts area and 4 parts player level. With the extensive rehaul to hit chances this seems like it could be impossible or unwieldy.
Each of these present upsides and downsides. I welcome feedback.
Furthermore I have a concern about random encounters. They are as follows.
-Enclave encounters- The formula of PPK12, Plasma Pistol and Yk2B in 3 man and similar default load out 6 man'.
-Default arrangement of mobs into the 6 mob hexagon, 3 and 6 man line and the less rigid 'Press Gang' formation. Do we have the ability to create spawn points that override the default formations?
-If we can make the above changes can we also rework the random encounter locations to provide more cover for all groups involved that coincide with their new or default formations. Rather than have a sudden Dodge City shootout. For example one group on one side of the Bridge keeper's bridge. The bottle neck could prove to be interesting.
-If it is in fact possible to make all the above changes to random encounters then that is a whole can of worms. I have made technical documents before. If we figure this out I would want to create an ini to register new encounters and the tutorial with which to allow people to both put in their own or publish their own somewhere here on NMA.
-And can we make changes to have mobs bodies be salvageable with repair to provide parts to recreate said armors. If I shot him in the head his jacket is fine. This must be implemented in a way as not to ruin trading. Gambling is the heroin of skills so making repair another would be equally unsavory.
-Also I think a set of options which increase loot and ammo and such. This would need to involve an increase in vendor stocks in my opinion.
-If we have figured out how to modify prototypes on the fly then we might be able to create a prefix and suffix system for items. A jury rigged plasma caster would be less accurate and/or less powerful. An old laser pistol would eat up more ammo. A well kept combat shotgun could decrease spread or reload or fire faster. The list goes on. And such a list would make adventuring in the wasteland more varied.
I have not modded since Smackrazor put out his tutorials. I can refresh myself on scripting and attempt to make these changes myself. However your help or collaboration would be greatly appreciated. In any case I think this should be attempted and one or both of us will make that happen. The improvement of the game can't stop.
Thanks for all the work you have done so far. Yourself and the other modders who have worked on Fallout over the years took something good and made it great. No reason to stop now.
-RavenWolf said:
Sex plays such a marginal part in the game that I don't really see the point.
Is there honestly anyone who gambles? And if so, what are you gonna do, win at black jack, and then use the morale boost to kill the dealer? Don't see the point.
Hmmm... I'll think about it, though I'm not sure if I can fix sneak in combat, seems totally mechanically broken.
I'm trying to make it so that enemies keep running. So, maybe you'll occasionally miss out on some loot, but most of the problems should go away associated with that.
Hmmm... generally it's not that good an idea to make traits depend on atts, as that makes min maxing a bit too easy. The general idea seems interesting though.
That's a very good idea... I need more morale based traits/perks anyway.
[/quote]
Theresnomagicandthatsok said:
Yeah, I thought something like this might happen, and you're completely right that it's a problem. I don't agree with your solutions though (magical ammo disappearances and level scaling). I was hoping that by pretty reliably giving enemies melee weapons as backups exploits could be avoided, but maybe boosting combat skills generally'd be a better idea (which you can already do through the .ini by the way).
Interesting ideas, but unfortunately there's not much I can do about RE's at the moment. I have been considering to take a systematic approach to that too though at some point, and that might make some changes possible.
Don't need to change protos for that to work. Sfall's hook scripts let you change a lot of those (except things like spread, which are inaccessible). But interesting ideas, I'll keep them in mind.
Panzerkampfwagen
First time out of the vault
Jim, You've done truly amazing thing with all those scripts.
Anyway, something is wrong - while I tried to slaughter Metzger's guild (while being at ~6 lvl - well, this wasn't my best idea at all) game just quit to desktop, without any warning or information why. It happened to me 3-4 times, usually turn after my turn when I killed first slaver. Resolution doesn't matter, neither fog of war, some hi-res patch options or ddraw options. I'm playing with Restoration Project 2.2.
Anyway, something is wrong - while I tried to slaughter Metzger's guild (while being at ~6 lvl - well, this wasn't my best idea at all) game just quit to desktop, without any warning or information why. It happened to me 3-4 times, usually turn after my turn when I killed first slaver. Resolution doesn't matter, neither fog of war, some hi-res patch options or ddraw options. I'm playing with Restoration Project 2.2.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll go test and see what's wrong.
One thing though, Panzerkampfwagen, could you check if ArmorRepair=0 in the JimsMods.ini? Because that's something that's been causing crashes especially in the Den, so if that's 1 for some reason, that'd be the reason.
Panzerkampfwagen
First time out of the vault
Um, it was 1. Funny, I don't remember I changed anything there.
You probably didn't do anything, it was switched in a relatively recent version (1.46 or 1.47), so either you weren't using the latest version, or you didn't overwrite the .ini for whatever reason.
This mod makes some great changes in gameplay, especially for advanced Fallout gamers. Very nice!
I red the other thread caryfully twice, but it's still hard to keep all the changes (and the changes for the changes) in memory for bug reporting.
First some questions:
What happened to the CritChance based on Luck? I see, your derivedstats don't calculate it. Is Luck still otherwise important for critting?
Whats about the increased hp bonus from ST and EN? But then, you wrote something about capping the max hp. This confuses me...
Are the hp on levelup also affected?
I don't know, if i like the AG Penalty of the heavier armors. It seems more realistic, but it's hard to give up this AP...
Maybe there is a way to make that optional?
I did some short testing so far, playing a Narg character for some minutes (temple,arroyo,klamath,den,encounters). RP 2.2 + JimsMod 1.48 . Left all gameplay settings alone.
Didn't find strange behavior, except for the fleeing thing.
- The ants in the temple are fleeing, if i have the spear active. But as far as i understand, this should be ok because they think they could die in next round.
- encountered some hostile "holy people" armed with knives and spears. Fleeing, when i (lvl 1, unarmed) move some hexes away, but not when they initiate combat.
- 1st Kaga encounter: Tried a bit, but didn't get him to NOT flee instantly. Maybe he should get some new dialog, taking care of his fearful nature...
Apart from the fleeing issue, i really enjoy the new experience. Excellent work!
I red the other thread caryfully twice, but it's still hard to keep all the changes (and the changes for the changes) in memory for bug reporting.
First some questions:
What happened to the CritChance based on Luck? I see, your derivedstats don't calculate it. Is Luck still otherwise important for critting?
Whats about the increased hp bonus from ST and EN? But then, you wrote something about capping the max hp. This confuses me...
Are the hp on levelup also affected?I don't know, if i like the AG Penalty of the heavier armors. It seems more realistic, but it's hard to give up this AP...
Maybe there is a way to make that optional?I did some short testing so far, playing a Narg character for some minutes (temple,arroyo,klamath,den,encounters). RP 2.2 + JimsMod 1.48 . Left all gameplay settings alone.
Didn't find strange behavior, except for the fleeing thing.
- The ants in the temple are fleeing, if i have the spear active. But as far as i understand, this should be ok because they think they could die in next round.
- encountered some hostile "holy people" armed with knives and spears. Fleeing, when i (lvl 1, unarmed) move some hexes away, but not when they initiate combat.
- 1st Kaga encounter: Tried a bit, but didn't get him to NOT flee instantly. Maybe he should get some new dialog, taking care of his fearful nature...
Apart from the fleeing issue, i really enjoy the new experience. Excellent work!
QuFu said:
Sorry about that, I've tried a couple of times to impart a bit of structure, but I keep changing everything around so much that I keep saying to myself that I just have to wait one more version before getting the documentation in order.
Still there; plays the same role in critting as in the original, and now also determines crit failure chance (didn't do so in the original). So it's actually more influential than in the original.
Whats about the increased hp bonus from ST and EN? But then, you wrote something about capping the max hp. This confuses me...
HP is capped at 20 + EN*5 + ST (values can be changed though). So HP doesn't increase per level anymore.
I don't know, if i like the AG Penalty of the heavier armors. It seems more realistic, but it's hard to give up this AP...
It is optional, like a whole range of other things, just check Jimsmods.ini. I love this feature personally, the choice between nimble dodger and bullet eating tank is an interesting one.
Yeah, gonna change this. This fleeing element should only be for "rational" creatures, not animals.
Hmm... thanks for being specific, because this make me think that I might still not have solved the melee fleeing problem (in my mod, melee enemies think they get a big to hit penalty over distance, but just for determining whether they flee).
- 1st Kaga encounter: Tried a bit, but didn't get him to NOT flee instantly. Maybe he should get some new dialog, taking care of his fearful nature...
Probably has to do with the same thing.
Thanks for the fast response.
Found the armor settings. Thanks again. Missed it somehow before.
Fixed HP:
Ah... now it all makes sense.
Or not.
As i remember, there were enough encounters with lots of gunwielding enemies you can't wipe out in one or two turns. Lets think about 5 or 7 enemies each dealing ~10 damage per turn. Your average PC (50HP) has barely a chance of getting out alive. Or the Enclace Patrol Encounters. And everybody knows what happens to a 50HP char, when consuming an incoming rocket.
I know, thats more realism. But it feels more like a punishment for highlevels. Just my 2cents or so...
So... if i set FixedHP=0 it would generate HP on levelup like before?
Found the armor settings. Thanks again. Missed it somehow before.
Fixed HP:
Ah... now it all makes sense.
Or not.
As i remember, there were enough encounters with lots of gunwielding enemies you can't wipe out in one or two turns. Lets think about 5 or 7 enemies each dealing ~10 damage per turn. Your average PC (50HP) has barely a chance of getting out alive. Or the Enclace Patrol Encounters. And everybody knows what happens to a 50HP char, when consuming an incoming rocket.
I know, thats more realism. But it feels more like a punishment for highlevels. Just my 2cents or so...
So... if i set FixedHP=0 it would generate HP on levelup like before?
You also have to comment the stats.ini line in sfall's ddraw.ini. It's not primarily about realism, in my experience (and according to my calculations), hp rises while damage output stays more or less flat due to better armor. But you should play whichever way you like of course.
"More or less" i see it the same way. But later in game the incoming damage numbers spreads wider, which also leads to more sudden deaths. Ok it's all theoretical. I will have an eye about it this time.
But if armor is the only way to increase your survival ability, sooner or later everybody sneaks to navarro for getting the (almost) best armor in game. I did that one time. But it's boring to get best eqiupment early in game.
And finally, you force players to invest serious amonts of points in EN. Also a high IN value is recommended to reach all the armor reqiurements in time. This leads to limited variety for character creation.
Sry, everytime i worry so much about character creation, before i finally start the game. And please correct me, if my thougts are wrong.
But if armor is the only way to increase your survival ability, sooner or later everybody sneaks to navarro for getting the (almost) best armor in game. I did that one time. But it's boring to get best eqiupment early in game.
And finally, you force players to invest serious amonts of points in EN. Also a high IN value is recommended to reach all the armor reqiurements in time. This leads to limited variety for character creation.
Sry, everytime i worry so much about character creation, before i finally start the game. And please correct me, if my thougts are wrong.
QuFu said:
Here's what I said about this a couple of months ago:
That's not an exploit I can fix (which I can with things like super stim assassinations), though I'd wish RP would do that (the fact that you can get past the guards in the tunnel without a sneak check and you can outsmart the quartermaster without a speech check is ridiculous to me). So all I can say is don't do that (if you don't want to ruin the game for yourself that is).
I disagree, because while I admit that stats still need a considerable degree of balancing, they should still lead to a lot more variety on character creation than the original. There's simply more possible attribute based builds now, from heavy weapons guy (previously there was no reason to raise ST above 4 when playing ranged) to a sniper character (previously taking high PE was only necessary for the sniper perk).
You're right though that EN might have become a bit overpowered (especially with the exhaustion system included), and I'm considering making the HP formula 20 + ST*2 + EN*4 to rectify that a bit.
Ok, started a new character, did all quests in Arroyo, now looking around in Klamath.
Bugs (RP 2.2 + Jim 1.48):
- Sometimes i get displayed a 100% THC while hovering over target (should be ~50 (eg. sharpenend spear vs. plant)).
- Sometimes the displayed AP cost in main weapon window gets messed up. Cycling a bit throug attack modes leads to correct numbers.
- The request&demand system doesn't work sometimes. I bartered twice with the buckner women in Klamath. First time, it showed reduced prices for my 4 normal gecko pelts. I cancelled this. Immidiadetly traded again, there were normal prices.
- I looted Vics shelf for my first ammo+firearm (24x 10mmJHP + piperifle).
- Unloading the piperifle leads to unloaded piperifle + 10x 10mmJHP
- Putting the 24x 10mm away, then unloading rifle leads to the the expected 1x 10mm in inventory.
- Putting this one away, then getting back the 24,then loading the rifle leads to loaded rifle + 5x 10mm.
There are some other weird combinations, eg. when picking up the 24x 10mm in the shelf in trappertown. Same with buying ammo. Stacks of 24 converting to stacks of 5 when merging with other stacks of the same type.
Bugs (RP 2.2 + Jim 1.48):
- Sometimes i get displayed a 100% THC while hovering over target (should be ~50 (eg. sharpenend spear vs. plant)).
- Sometimes the displayed AP cost in main weapon window gets messed up. Cycling a bit throug attack modes leads to correct numbers.
- The request&demand system doesn't work sometimes. I bartered twice with the buckner women in Klamath. First time, it showed reduced prices for my 4 normal gecko pelts. I cancelled this. Immidiadetly traded again, there were normal prices.
- I looted Vics shelf for my first ammo+firearm (24x 10mmJHP + piperifle).
- Unloading the piperifle leads to unloaded piperifle + 10x 10mmJHP
- Putting the 24x 10mm away, then unloading rifle leads to the the expected 1x 10mm in inventory.
- Putting this one away, then getting back the 24,then loading the rifle leads to loaded rifle + 5x 10mm.
There are some other weird combinations, eg. when picking up the 24x 10mm in the shelf in trappertown. Same with buying ammo. Stacks of 24 converting to stacks of 5 when merging with other stacks of the same type.