Fool waving gun gets shot. Shocking!

Why the emphasis, Wooz?

Are you subtly implying the question "even if the person shot survives?"

Or are you subtly implying the question "why not simply be charged with possession of an illegal firearm and let the murder charge be dropped as self-defense?"

Or another train of thought entirely?
 
hmm i dont think this should be a gun thread, i think the issue is weather or not people have the right to defend themselves (US constitution not included)......because often times the mind set of those that think massive gun control is the key, is that you do not have the right to defend yourself even if your life or others lives around you are in danger. they are advocates for just letting the police do their "job", (now talking US Constitution) and at the same time they will turn and bitch about the government having too much control in their lives.........but the police are run by the government, and if they really didnt like the amount of control the government had they wouldn't try to make it hard for people to defend themselves.
 
Shut up. No point in talking about gun laws -- one side consists of stubborn ignorants, the other does too.

I have my own oppinions on gun laws and the only valid counter-arguments I've heard so far were based on interpretations of the original intentions a constitution had been written with.

That said, it's mostly about two groups arguing who's capable of pulling more arguments out of their cavities and who can come up with the less inflammable strawmen.

IMO this thread will only lead to a gun discussion -- subtle or not.
 
Kotario said:
Why the emphasis, Wooz?
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Well, I was just pointing out that the answer was already in a previous post.

I wasn't subtly implying anything, stating my opinion nor taking sides in a potential debate.
 
Lord 342 said:
Ratty, you did say it's possible, if not difficult, to get a permit for a small pistol... but if it's illegal to kill in self defense, why have the pistol? Or did I mis-interpret you; did you just mean in the given situation the guy would've gotten in trouble because the nutter in the mask wasn't actually shooting him/attacking him? For instance here in Massachusetts if someone's in your house illegally you can't kill him, but if he *attacks* you in your house, you can. Am I just missing some key difference like that, or is it really illegal to kill in self defense where you are? Thanks in advance for a sensible answer.
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To tell you the truth, I'm not sure. No matter what circumstances were, you go on trial when you kill somebody, but I guess a reasonable judge would let you go free or with a symbolic sentence if you prove your life was in danger. But I'm uncertain, since I haven't heard of any such cases in Croatia. Sorry, I guess I'm unable to give you a sensible answer.
 
yes, Ratty, usually self-defence is allowed. You'd be judged for gun-possession, though, but in most countries I know self-defence, and even defence of others, is legal.
 
This is pretty funny. I'd think self defense is pretty much a non issue. However if its illegal to own a gun, and you use one you illegally own in self defense, thats probably grounds for criminal charges. However I doubt a court would insist on calling you a murderer, but find some other charges.

Although I am curious, if its illegal to use guns, what if your assailant has one and you manage to get control of it and turn the gun on them? Would charges be pressed against you for illegal use of a gun?
 
In Texas, even if you have a concealed handgun license, you'll find a lot of buildings don't allow firearms on the premises.

Although one of the guys that works for me, is a part time cop, and is allowed to carry his firearm with him, since he's law enforcement.

You can't imagine how many times I've asked to borrow his .45 to go administer some justice to some chuckle-headed IT member.
 
Commissar Lauren said:
Although I am curious, if its illegal to use guns, what if your assailant has one and you manage to get control of it and turn the gun on them? Would charges be pressed against you for illegal use of a gun?
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No idea. I never tried anything even remotely similar to that. I wonder, however, if it's illegal to kill someone in self-defense by slashing their throat with a pirated CD?
 
Ratty said:
Commissar Lauren said:
Although I am curious, if its illegal to use guns, what if your assailant has one and you manage to get control of it and turn the gun on them? Would charges be pressed against you for illegal use of a gun?
Click to expand...
No idea. I never tried anything even remotely similar to that. I wonder, however, if it's illegal to kill someone in self-defense by slashing their throat with a pirated CD?
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I think in that circumstance, you would be ok, it would be a matter of "proving" who had original possession of the weapon.

In talking to my cop buddy, he indicated that if you wrestled the weapon away, and they were still attacking you with another weapon, you could shoot them, as it would still indicate the attacker had malicious intent.

However, if you wrestled the weapon away, and you shot them, you would have to prove that you were in fear of your life, as you were utilizing deadly force.
 
Ratty said:
Commissar Lauren said:
Although I am curious, if its illegal to use guns, what if your assailant has one and you manage to get control of it and turn the gun on them? Would charges be pressed against you for illegal use of a gun?
Click to expand...
No idea. I never tried anything even remotely similar to that. I wonder, however, if it's illegal to kill someone in self-defense by slashing their throat with a pirated CD?
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I don't think that would be illegal, if you can prove that you absolutely had to kill them. The only comparable case I can think of is a man, here in Denmark, who a long time ago stabbed 2 other men to death after being chased into an alleyway. He was charged with murder and convicted.

The whole point is that you usually don't have to kill to defend yourself, although it can happen by mistake. But if you shoot somebody in the head or chest, chances are they will die, and that you knew this when you pulled the trigger, self defence or not.

Look at that example with the guy in the Bin Laden mask. If the other guy had run away or just kicked his ass (assuming he actually really looked at him before shooting him to death), nobody would have died.
 
Commissar Lauren said:
This is pretty funny. I'd think self defense is pretty much a non issue. However if its illegal to own a gun, and you use one you illegally own in self defense, thats probably grounds for criminal charges. However I doubt a court would insist on calling you a murderer, but find some other charges.

Although I am curious, if its illegal to use guns, what if your assailant has one and you manage to get control of it and turn the gun on them? Would charges be pressed against you for illegal use of a gun?
Click to expand...
No. Or actually, charges would be pressed on account of murder, but they'd be dismissed because of self-defence. The assistant would be charged with illegal possession of weapons, though.
 
Thanks for the answer, Ratty. That's what I was looking for.

Even in the US they'll at least look into "Self defense" killings because sometimes it makes a very convenient excuse. Sometimes it's obvious, though, like our man here in the mask waving a rifle at a taxi driver. No question I'd consider my life in danger if I saw someone come at me in a mask waving a rifle at me.

And for reference, someone had mentioned it, he didn't die. He just got shot in the stomach. He'll be OK and you can bet he'll never do something that stupid again. Pretty good outcome, if you ask me.
 
Flop said:
I don't think that would be illegal, if you can prove that you absolutely had to kill them. The only comparable case I can think of is a man, here in Denmark, who a long time ago stabbed 2 other men to death after being chased into an alleyway. He was charged with murder and convicted.
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The problem isn't the murder itself, but the weapon. It's an illegal CD. You could get life just for possession. :wink:
 
Sander said:
Commissar Lauren said:
This is pretty funny. I'd think self defense is pretty much a non issue. However if its illegal to own a gun, and you use one you illegally own in self defense, thats probably grounds for criminal charges. However I doubt a court would insist on calling you a murderer, but find some other charges.

Although I am curious, if its illegal to use guns, what if your assailant has one and you manage to get control of it and turn the gun on them? Would charges be pressed against you for illegal use of a gun?
Click to expand...
No. Or actually, charges would be pressed on account of murder, but they'd be dismissed because of self-defence. The assistant would be charged with illegal possession of weapons, though.
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Isn't it possible that he'll be charged for manslaughter though?
 
Yes, and be acquitted because of self-defence. Defending yourself is legal, as long as the measures are in proportion to the threat.
 
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