FoT Redux 1.1 Comments/Issues/Bugs

Discussion in 'Fallout Tactics Modding' started by davor, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. davor

    davor First time out of the vault

    13
    Mar 16, 2013
    First I have to say: great mod. It is obvious that you have put lots of work in it, and for that, thank you.

    As I didn’t find a dedicated thread abut v1.1 bugs/issues, and I assume you want to improve your mod, I though to make a topic myself. So here I’ll post some of the issues I encounter in my game (hard/tough guy).

    • Leader perk: says that it should give +5 AC, but as far as I can see, it gives +10 to my party members.
      Swift Learner perk: has no effect on party members, so it should either be removed from their list, or clearly stated.
      Recruits from Yeoman: sometimes, between my consultations, the levels of recruits change: the recruit levels increase or drop.
      Recruits reapearing: I took Earl in Bunker Alpha, so now he is in my team, but when I arrived at Bunker Bravo, he was available in Yeoman's list. So now I can recruit him again.
      Earl's picture: has a black background, whereas the others have green backgrounds.
      Quincy mission: it is not clear that rescuing Major and her daughter are primary objectives. One could put that in Mission Objectives screen. Also, disabling the syren has no title in Dialogue screen...
      Some melee Beastlords have 4 voodoo's... thats overkill considering how expensive those are.
      Dog tags: each recruited char has 2 Dog Tags. Shouldn't that be unique?
      Sharpshooter perk: it states "for each" but as far as I see, it is available only once.
     
  2. TwoEyedYum

    TwoEyedYum Naked Moose

    355
    Jan 21, 2010
    Those are original bugs, Redux has nothing to do with them.
     
  3. davor

    davor First time out of the vault

    13
    Mar 16, 2013
    The maker of the mod states that for example he changed the description of the Perk if it has bugs in game.
    As for the levels… it might be there is not much to do about it. But anyway, Redux is about fixing the game, so who knows, might be some day it gets fixed.
     
  4. TwoEyedYum

    TwoEyedYum Naked Moose

    355
    Jan 21, 2010
    Engine bugs are too difficult to fix. And we here at FoT modding community don't have any dedicated programmer to help with this. Even Jarekfall dissapeared :(

    Everything Endocore can do - cosmetic fixes and descriptions changes. So i hope it will be more about content, maps and NPCs.
     
  5. davor

    davor First time out of the vault

    13
    Mar 16, 2013
    Some other suggestions that I have noted up till now:
    • It would be better if a few recruits were available after each rank. Currently you get many recruits at certain times in the game, mostly before bunker transfers. I think this disrupts anticipation for new recruits after each mission.
      Some recruits seem to have too many points in SPECIAL statistics, and some too few. Compare for example Marco and Belle. If one would mutate Marco or Alice to a gifted person, that would be like cheating...
      I got Esau (lvl20) when I was lvl 16 on tough guy. This is normal?
      I found one MP30 on one of the dead enforcers (?) or reavers (don't know for sure) during their attac on the north gate.
      Grenades maxed at 15.... this makes them pretty useless for the computer as it almost never gets the chance to throw one. Increasing the range might be a good thing... and I think also also adjusting the throw strength modifier from 3 to 2. Strength 5 chars throwing as far as super mutants is just not realistic. This is probably hardcoded, but the fix seems simple if one could find the constant in the binary.
      Power armor reduces lockpick… OK, seems obvious in a sense, but at the same time easily circumvented by removing armor, and lockpicking. So I think there should be no penalty on lockpick based on armor.
      The use of explosives is not clear in the game. This is so unfortunate considering the possibilities for gameplay. I am thinking on blasting locked doors, or opening new pathways, etc. The price is quite steep, but the uses seem insignificant. Or maybe I am just ignorant. After all, this is my first play through. But in any case, I think that if dynamite has use, it should be made clear somewhere.
      Gloria: "[...] it ain't gonna be beaucoup difficult" -> she never says "difficult", so it should be removed?
      Mission briefing of Coldwater: General states the BOS's were drugged and killed, but the text says otherwise...
      Extra supply boxes in Coldwater at mission start: are unnecessary and misplaced if you ask me. Boxes at start of the game… mja… OK, but still, why not just put the stuff in the inventory… They just seem so artificial.
      Fast shot and bonus rate of fire = overkill with pistols... should be one or the other if you ask me. Yes, I have read the manual so we agree on that point. But, there are a couple of recruits with both of those skills. Now that’s induced cheating… and should be dealt with. Cesta and Alice both have fast shot and bonus rate of fire.
      Reaver Banding (armor) on Glenda Close has no effect on her stats. It seems broken. Also, once taken off it cannot be put back on. She doesn't seem to be able to carry any armor either.
      Medical division key: the door lock looks very difficult, even with 190% lockpick... Lowering such things could make lockpicking useful. Same with the big door in Bend town????
      Lifegiver seems a bit unbalanced considering how little effect endurance has on life, and at the same time the fact that you can take it more than once. I mean, I had Payne as a tank, but a squishy with life perk would have been better… I thing +1 life cumulative, or +2 life non-cumulative would be more appropriate.
      Melee weapons seem to me a bit underpowered. Ripper is one of the first melee weapons, and remains (one of) the best throughout the game. Combine that with the fact that you can't lower the action points on melee weapons below 3… This in comparison to the ultimate stopping power of Sulik with his powered hammer. Where did it go wrong with the melee weapons???
      Modified spear with dynamite is too underpowered for being a very rare item.
      Tank: There are some issues with the tank cannon, it has double animation. It remains in the bunker, and stacks…
      Encounters: there are still many, but the outdoorsman skill helps to ignore them. Still, with outdoorsman on 100% you can ignore them all it seems. I think it would be more interesting to increase this cap to 200% or more. On tough guy, this skill is VERY important. But being able to ignore all encounters with mere 100% seems a bit too simple if you ask me.
      Prices: 40mm grenades seem a bit overpriced, in comparison with micro fusion cells, which are very powerful later in game, but can be bought quite cheaply. I think MFC price should be in range of 14mm bullet price, and 40mm grenades a bit lowered, but still more expensive than hand grenades. 14mmDU is 10x more expensive than 14mm... enough to never buy it. 4mm bullets seem also overpriced, considering their damage.
      Some reavers have many 40mm shells. Considering their price and how easy they are to snipe down, those reavers are real cash cows.
      The 2 first bots you encounter in Buena Vista carry 4 plastiques each, and quite a lot of ammo. This seems a bit unbalanced.
      Lockpick: undervalued skill. There hardly are any doors/safes to lockpick. Some of the boxes that are put at the start of missions could be put in safes next to some key enemy places, as possible loot for those that can open them.
      Plasma rife: is a bit overpowered considering it does almost as much damage as the sunshine laser.
      Miles sound system: contrary to what I have read, the game was very stable during my playthrough. It did crash 2 times, and in both cases the Miles sound system was the culprit. It might be wise putting in the FAQ to change the sound device to something else.
      Canyon city: turret in the basement has some 110 rockets to loot. That’s unbalancing, considering their price. Also, most bots have 200 micro fusion cells, or even more than 1000bullets. All this seems a bit unbalancing considering how ammo was scarce in previous levels. For example, before this level I had some 400MFC's, after I had almost 3k...
      Settin up the nuke: one should put somewhere that after the nuke is in place, one will have 1 minute to take cover... not knowing that cost me a very long and exiting game on toughguy. But it ended in minor. From what the general said, I was expecting an attack on the nuke, not 1 minute to take cover....
      Scott City: what a blast of a mission – well, I lost 4 of my best squad members there! But this is one of the few tactical games that gives quite a challenge on toughguy/hard for those that never played it, but at the same time makes you care about every little detail of your squad members and makes the mission completion quite satisfactory. And I am sure this is achieved to a great extent by your (and others) dedication to this game and this mod.

    And I just can't stop wondering how I deserved my Sword of Despair title...
     
  6. TwoEyedYum

    TwoEyedYum Naked Moose

    355
    Jan 21, 2010
    ... and being shot from behind by random enemy patrolling territory. Never happened to you, i guess ;)

    First door isn't supposed to be opened without specific key IIRC. Second mentioned door is just... Locked forever or until mod author adds some script to it.

    On throw range modifier and Outdoorsman check - yeah, it's possible to find and change something in BOS.exe, but there's quite a few modders who actually will do it. Jarekfall was one of them.

    Why not change them into containers that just will fit enviroment
     
  7. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    365
    Mar 14, 2010



    Thank you for all the detailed comments. This is exactly the sort of stuff needed to demolish problems in the original game and make a better start on something new. I haven't been working on Redux lately, but when I do return to it this will be quite helpful.

    One thing to note on some of the recruit irregularities you mentioned-- some unresolvable bugs in the game engine affect the recruit pool. Recruit perks and skill points are randomly distributed when the game autolevels the soldiers to more closely approach your main character's current level. The workaround, though piquant, is simple. When you speak to the Recruit Master, if you hear the 'level-up' sound effect this means the game has autoleveled some recruits (most likely in a way far less than optimal). If you look at a recruit's stat screen and see that he/she has levelled up beyond the point where you last used them in a mission (or if you have never used them), simply exit the recruiting screen without hiring anyone and then immediately speak to the Recruit Master again-- all recruits will be returned to their (lower and thus more customizable) baseline experience level or otherwise to the experience level they were at when you last took them on a mission. Sadly, nothing can be done to fix this original game bug.

    I usually try to find some recruits I like early in the game, and keep them with me for multiple missions so that I can shape their perk/skill development rather than allow the AI to randomly decide their advancement. I believe this is by far the most common style of play. Yet you sound as though you enjoy the variation of using many different personnel. There is certainly nothing unreasonable about such an approach, and you're right that additional accomodations need to be made to such a style of play than is currently offered. In other words, the remodelled recruits still need a fair bit of work to differentiate them from each other in a way that makes each one of them a potential asset under various styles of play.

    On the turret lootable ammo issue, this is another original game problem. I didn't look at it too closely, because the game generally has an incorrigible surfeit of all manner of loot but the quartermaster system should work to rapidly bring the marginal trade value of any items traded in even modest quantities to near worthlessness. With any particular vendor, once they have even one of a particular item in their inventory the price they're willing to offer on each additional instance of the item plummets. As you noted, however, this is rather less noticeable on ammuntion as opposed to guns and armor (because thousands of units of ammunition are typically involved, even a pittance per unit can add up to something significant). On the turret rockets you mentioned in particular, however, there is the practical matter to consider of weight and inventory limits. On one hand I'm inclined to say if a player actually has the patience to make numerous trips back and forth across a mission map to gather up all the loot, and then has further patience to micromanage a vehicle inventory, and then has yet more patience to make numerous trips back and forth from the vehicle bay at a bunker to the QM station to barter away the loot given modest carrying capacity per soldier per trip, he really does deserve some sort of nontrivial payoff for all that effort. If a player is really having such difficulties that his team needs the cash badly enough to justify such herculean looting of maps, perhaps we ought not remove such a safety valve mechanism.

    I agree with your comments on lockpicking-- believe it or not, I already did a fair bit of work on making doors and containers susceptible to lockpicking in order to increase the utility of points spent on lockpicking. The approach of the original game was apparently to consider most doors as simple scenery that no one would ever try to open-- hence the considerable number of doors found on original maps that would say 'does nothing' when one used lockpicking on them. Another problem was that a number of doors were not lockpickable because they were meant to use particular keys the player-characters can find on the maps, but the devs either forgot to place the keys at all or placed buggy keys whose tagnames did not match the doors they were intended to open. I changed many of these to be fully functional doors (even if very difficult indeed to successfully pick in the case of doors needing a special key because opening them offers a remarkable tactical advantage), but this is yet another area where much more work remains to be done.

    You're absolutely right about the countdown/run for the blast shelter at Cheyenne Mountain. Beyond fixing glaring bugs, increasing the general player-friendliness of the game was among my top concerns while designing the mod (hence among other things my several clarifications of the player's otherwise obtuse objectives on the subsequent maps inside the mountain; if this is your first time playing you were hopefully spared a severe case of head-scratching about how to proceed that afflicted me when I first played years ago). Your suggestion on this point will definitely be implemented in a future version.

    Thanks again for the comments, and please feel free to report all matters you feel need are in need of attention as the game can only benefit from a consideration of all such issues. Our putting any thought at all into many matters will apparently be more thought than the original designers could be bothered to put into numerous aspects of the original game's design. My general thinking on this subject was that when I saw something I didn't like, I'd make a change based on some minimally definable principle in the hope that even if the reason for any particular change wasn't the best idea a consensus for a more reasonable basis of improvement will subsequently emerge from community discussion.


     
  8. davor

    davor First time out of the vault

    13
    Mar 16, 2013
    Some other notes:

    • I noticed that I miss more with energy weapons when I have 95% hit chance, as compared to other weapons? This is a subjective constatation: it simply could have been bad luck.

      Those load lifters in the west room at Level 1 Calculator bunker: they will attack you in the doorway... if you waste them they will block the doorway, and you can start all over. Removing them will reduce the frustration factor of the game. Certainly on though guy, I assure you :)

      The general mentions that the radiation levels will skyrocket after the nuke detonates, but I haven’t noticed much. Maybe one could increase the radiation level on subsequent Level 1?

      If possible, an auto save between the last 3 missions would be great. It takes too long to do 3 missions at once... In my case, it is 3-4h for the first mission. Because of issues (like the nuke detonating while I was stressfully micro-managing 6 men on their way to the bunker, and then on the second playthrough on Level 1 the load lifter blocking the way) …. I just gave up, went to some site and read the walkthrough. I have to say that this was the first time (beside Miles sound system) that I encountered game-breaking problems. The game feels very stable and mostly logical.

      From the walkthrough it seems that the General’s locket has some use later, when you encounter the General. Maybe you could put in the description that “you have a feeling this valuable item might become useful someday”, hinting that one should keep it in the inventory. Most miscellaneous item like this one end up somewhere in the locker. As for General’s letter, think it is gone as I can’t find it anymore (passed to the wife).

      There are some mission items that lose descriptions when you return back to the base. I have included my save games for reference. These items are in the inventory of the (usually) main character in my save games with “completed” in the name. For example, “Mission 12 Osceola – completed” save game: there are some items left (like the mines map, tech manual, and case) with no description. Same with the item from “Mission 15 completed – Great Bend” save game. Other items like keys do not lose description, but remain. In Macomb I also found a tech manual without apparent use.

      Mechanic at Bunker Echo has a Jet Bike Key. He will sell it for nothing. In the description it says that it was “warm when you found it”. Err, I haven’t found it… I “bought” it, and have no idea what it is used for. I assume this is from the original, but as far as I am concerned, you could toss it if it has no use.
    Haha… no it did not :).
    I noticed this quite early in the game after taking one autoleveled character, and never took one again throughout my play. Autoleveling just feels odd: the low-level recruits you leave in the bunker are as experienced as you are after you come back from a mission. Bah…

    Besides autoleveling there is another issue with recruits that (I think) could be made better: the base level of recruits. After each mission, the first thing I did was run to the quarter master to check new recruits (because I usually lost 1-2). This mostly ended up in disappointment because:

    • 1) There were no new recruits. (cf. my previous post about distributing the recruits for recruitment more evenly after each mission.)
      2) There were new recruits, but they were my level, and mostly hardly usable from my perspective. Now, I tend to play with 1-2x tank/trapper/big-gunner, 2x support/doc/scientist/grenadier/driver, 1-2x sniper/sneaker/fastshooter/scout. So in general, I need specialists. But I understand that someone else would develop another gameplay, and would need different characters. And what the game offers is high level -- at the time you get them, and not to mention those at lvl 24 -- generalists at best, that are quite hard to shape, certainly at higher levels. Now, I think that tweaking them in source code wouldn’t make them any better (to me or someone else) because players have their specific preferences… So the only reasonable thing one could do is reduce their base level with 5-15 levels, so players can level them up as they want. I think that this would make the recruits more customizable and more enjoyable.

      And because the experience system seems to resemble something close to exponential growth, a reduced level wouldn’t have a big impact on difficulty. During my playthrough I sometimes took a ~lvl5 recruit when I was around level 20, and because of much experience earned during missions, the rookie became a highly able expert (~lvl15), just after one mission.
    What concerns the how to proceed at Cheyenne Mountain and Level 1: I had no issues finding my way. On Level 1 it was clear that I had to somehow fight my way to West room, so I could open the other doors.

    You also mentioned somewhere in the readme that you hoped Redux would be the beginning of some bigger collaboration. I wonder if you ever considered feeding it to some version control hosting service. Github is now probably the most widely used by developers. What this would result in is a procedure for making adjustments to anyone who wants to contribute. Contributing in general terms would look like the following: install FTBoS, run “git clone https://github.com/Endocore/FoT-Redux”, play, make adjustments to source code, test, run “git commit -m "Info about adjustments you made."” You could then revise the changes that modders suggest to the main repository. Not to mention the advantages of centralizing, bugtracking, forking, etc.
     
  9. Zyxterman

    Zyxterman First time out of the vault

    1
    Jun 11, 2013
    Good pack of fixes, but realy bad rebalance. Weapons looks more like from game with "Friday night firefight" combat rules, not fallout. And from this comes problems with fast shot + bonus rate of fire pistols. In classic fallouts pistol characters without ability to aim and make massive criticals can`t kill anything serious. with this rebalance they make more damage than a bigguns. And after 24lvl then they get a sniper perk pistol users can kill begemoth in one-two turns, making any bigger wepon much less usable than in vanilla version. Rockets has with single shot with 100-180 damage and can`t be compared to 5-10 shots with 30-60 damage from pistols. Miniguns do almost same damage, but have a big weight and eat much more ammo.
     
  10. davor

    davor First time out of the vault

    13
    Mar 16, 2013
    Fast shot + bonus rate of fire pistols are indeed a problem. During my play through I didn't use them. In the readme file one is pointed to the fact that this is cheating. So, not taking these two perks into account, I found the game quite well-balanced and hard.

    But what do you suggest as a fix? Lowering the overall damage done by pistols? By how much? Also lowering the global critical chance? Removing the sniper perk? ... Consequences?
     
  11. Makta

    Makta The DICKtator

    Jul 29, 2010
    Seeing how i'm not a fan of new things.. Is there a version without the new items and weapons/weapon changes and changes regarding recruits? Basicly i loved the sound of the bugfixes but i prefer to have the game in the old ways :)
     
  12. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    365
    Mar 14, 2010
    Sure, but you'll have to do some reading. The mod's documentation already includes instructions on how to customize your own installation.
     
  13. Makta

    Makta The DICKtator

    Jul 29, 2010
    Following 3B would still add items? Or maybe i did something wrong :P
     
  14. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    365
    Mar 14, 2010
    A few items entirely new (not present in the original game) would still be added this way, but all types of items originally found in the game would be left in their original state. I see now you were saying you wanted to leave off all of the former as well, which unfortunately isn't plausible for various reasons as some of these items have a narrative function (as opposed to just being loot). You could try leaving these item entity files out as well, though I'm not sure what the effects would be. Likely you'd find a few doors you couldn't open, and a few characters you can't interact with; possibly (but not as likely) you'd get some ctds or map-loading errors as well.
     
  15. MaToX

    MaToX It Wandered In From the Wastes

    146
    Apr 5, 2009
    So if I understood from the readme, sniper and sharpshooter perks works as they should, right?
     
  16. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    365
    Mar 14, 2010
    I don't have the materials with me to check, but as far as I recall those perks should be working fine.
     
  17. DrJohnnyFever

    DrJohnnyFever First time out of the vault

    3
    Nov 11, 2013
    Does anyone know of a character editor that works with FT Redux 1.1? Pre Redux I was using BOSCHE.EXE but with Redux that utility no longer works (a random character and stats loads up, not my main character).
     
  18. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!
    Modder

    365
    Mar 14, 2010
    I'm not sure about any of the old aftermarket character editors, but one surefire way to get a particular custom character is to use the FOT Editor that comes with the game to edit one of the prefabricated player-characters, and then just choose that prefab when starting a new game. Likewise if you want to adjust any recruits you plan to take, the Editor that comes with the game will also do that; you just have to plan ahead on how you'll develop the characters since edits cannot be made to an in-progress game.
     
  19. DrJohnnyFever

    DrJohnnyFever First time out of the vault

    3
    Nov 11, 2013
    Endocore,
    Thanks for the heads up about the FT Editor. I'm thinking about looking around the internets for any of the source code for the save game editors...it'd be an interesting coding effort to adjust them to work with the new recruit pool and the options for the main character. Barring that, I might even kick around the idea of building a new editor from scratch that works with Redux 1.1 saves.
     
  20. RobertHouse

    RobertHouse Fallout Tactics Moderator Modder

    703
    Jun 9, 2013
    if you find some source code please PM me a link.