French No Wins?

John Uskglass

Venerable Relic of the Wastes
Well, it would appear that the French exit polls are indicating a No by 55%. Let us all pray this marks the beggining of the Thousand Year Reign of Sarkozy and the eventual demarxification of France.

But what does this mean for the EU? Is this a good thing French President Jacques Chirac has conceded that voters have rejected the EU constitution in Sunday's referendum.

Exit polls published just after voting ended give the "No" side a resounding victory at 55%.

Mr Chirac, who had campaigned for a "Yes", said he accepted voters' "sovereign decision" - but said France would honour its European commitments.

The vote could deal a fatal blow to the constitution, which needed to be ratified by all 25 members states.

So far nine countries have done so. French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier said the vote was a "real disappointment".

He added that other EU countries should go ahead with their own votes regardless.

Eight other national referendums are still to come, including one in the Netherlands on Wednesday, where the "No" side is also leading in the polls.

There were cheers from supporters of the "No" campaign when the exit polls results were announced just after voting ended at 2100 GMT.

Those who rejected the treaty included Communists, various left-wing groups, dissident socialists and far-right parties.

Referendum season

The constitution was finalised last year after long and difficult negotiations among EU governments.

The treaty includes the union's Charter of Fundamental Rights and establishes a foreign minister.

Member states can ratify the document through a referendum or by parliamentary vote. Germany ratified it on Friday. or a bad thing for all Europe?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4592243.stm



Preparing to say non and nee

May 27th 2005
From The Economist Global Agenda

Despite warnings that Europe will descend into crisis if the proposed European Union constitution is not approved, French and Dutch voters look set to reject it in their upcoming referendums

THEY have been warned that Europe will be plunged into crisis. They have been told that there is no “Plan B” and no chance of renegotiation. There has even been talk, from the Dutch justice minister, that the continent could erupt in Balkan-style wars. But the latest polls suggest that French and Dutch voters are unmoved by such histrionics, and will say non and nee in their referendums on the proposed European Union constitution.

Thirteen opinion polls in a row have now predicted that the French will reject the constitution in their referendum on Sunday May 29th. The latest, from CSA, found that of those who had made up their mind, 52% intended to vote non, against 48% planning to vote oui—other recent polls have put the non vote as high as 55%. However, even after months of intense and emotional debate over the constitution, around a fifth of Frenchmen still respond to pollsters with a Gallic shrug.

In a last-ditch attempt to persuade these undecideds to vote oui, President Jacques Chirac addressed the nation on television and radio on Thursday night. “It is about your future and that of your children, the future of France and of Europe,” he said. But his solemn and somewhat ponderous speech lacked vigour and may not be enough to turn things round.

In the Netherlands, the chances of persuading voters to accept the constitution look even slimmer. The latest poll this week, from Maurice de Hond, puts the nee vote at 57% of those who have made up their minds, against only 43% intending to vote ja. The gap has narrowed in the past week but still seems big enough to guarantee rejection of the constitution on June 1st.

In both countries, there is a big gap between what the electors are supposed to be voting on and the issues they say they are voting on. They are supposed to be voting for a constitutional treaty to make the EU more efficient, dynamic and democratic. To avoid continual stalemates in a Union that now has 25 member countries and will eventually have more than 30, the constitution would abolish national governments’ vetoes over many policy areas. It is also intended to increase Europe’s influence in the world by giving the EU a full-time president and foreign minister. The European Commission—the EU’s central bureaucracy in Brussels—would be slimmed down, while more powers would be given to the European Parliament, the EU’s legislature, which is elected by a direct vote of all EU citizens.

However, many French voters fear that the constitution would make it easier for the EU to impose “Anglo-Saxon” free-market policies on them. For them, voting non means voting to protect French jobs, employment rights and social benefits against competition from low-cost, low-tax, deregulated countries, including the EU’s new, eastern members.

Paradoxically, many Britons reject the constitution for exactly the opposite reason: they fear it will give Brussels more powers to impose French-style high taxes and heavy-handed labour laws on them. Both the French and British fears have some justification: in as much as it is possible to make sense of the long, rambling document, Britain sees the constitution's “charter of rights” section as threatening its deregulated jobs market; while the French fret over the clause committing EU members to a market economy—though this has long been EU policy, many in France want to see such liberalisme rolled back, not set in stone. In any case, the row over the constitution has revealed sharply differing policy preferences among member states that would be hard to reconcile in a single document.

Some French voters also oppose the constitution for fear that it will pave the way for Turkey to join the EU. They worry about the effects of letting such a huge and poor country into the Union. In fact, Turkey’s entry talks are likely to proceed (and drag on for years) whether or not the constitution is adopted. Though their leaders insist otherwise, many French voters are also convinced that if they reject the constitution now, it can be renegotiated to address their concerns. Last but not least, some French voters intend to vote no simply because they have had enough of Mr Chirac, and of his government’s failure to revive the economy, and wish to give him a slap in the face. In his speech on Thursday night, the president sought to appease these disgruntled voters by hinting he was about to sack his prime minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin.

Many Dutch voters also intend to use their referendum to punish their political leaders. The Dutch have increasingly come to share Britons’ worries that their country is being turned into a mere province of a European superstate—and fear that the constitution will only reinforce this. The Dutch are getting fed up of being the biggest net contributors to the EU’s budget on a per-head basis, despite being far from its richest citizens. They also think the scrapping of their national currency in favour of the euro has increased the cost of living. The nee campaign points out that the same political elite that signed up to the euro and allowed mass immigration—another rising Dutch worry—is now lining up behind the constitution.



Yes could still mean no, and no yes
If the polls are wrong, and France votes oui and the Dutch ja, attention would turn to Britain, whose prime minister, Tony Blair, has been forced by public opinion to hold a referendum next year. Britons seem almost certain to reject the constitution and, since it has to be approved by all 25 EU countries (though not necessarily by referendum), in theory this would kill it. In practice, if the only country rejecting the constitution were Britain—traditionally one of the most “difficult” EU members—there would likely be calls for the rest to push ahead, forcing Britain to choose between eventually accepting the constitution or becoming, at best, a semi-detached EU member.

If it is oui in France but nee in the Netherlands, it may depend on the turnout in the Dutch vote. Strictly speaking, the Dutch referendum is “consultative” and the country’s parliament may ignore its outcome. The main parties have said they will honour the popular vote as long as the turnout is above 30%. In practice, whatever the turnout, if the Dutch voters reject the constitution in spite of a French approval, they might be given an “opportunity” to reconsider, by means of a second referendum, as happened in Ireland and Denmark when voters initially rejected past EU treaties.

However, if France, a founding member of the EU and traditionally its driving force, says non, the constitution in its present form would probably be dead—regardless of whether the Dutch (also a founder member but less pivotal) say nee or ja. A second French referendum seems quite unlikely.

If angry French and Dutch voters do kill the constitution, expect a period of turbulence in Europe, especially on its financial markets (see our Buttonwood column)—and some stormy summits, as the EU’s leaders argue over what to do next. Debate would rage over which bits of the constitution could be implemented under existing treaties—some say much of it, some barely any. The leaders’ current rows—over such things as liberalising trade in services, the EU’s budget and the rebate Britain enjoys on its contributions—would get nastier. The process of admitting new member countries could slow a bit. But a collapse of the Union, as the doomsters warn? Highly unlikely. The EU would stumble on, under its present arrangements, until its leaders came up with a more convincing constitution, one whose vision of Europe’s future could win over its frustrated and suspicious voters.
 
So the EU is doomed to live on as the bureaucratic swamp it is now.

Silly French. Guided by the voice of populist agitators, they were. They've got a history of that...
 
i'm voting 'nee'. but it sure is interesting to watch how the voter is being propagandized by using fear as a weapon. it's all one great conspiracy.
(yes, my hair looks quite like this:
rancid.jpg
)
 
NgInE said:
i'm voting 'nee'. but it sure is interesting to watch how the voter is being propgandised by using fear as a weapon.

So you say that, and then continue on to vote 'nee'?

Forgive me if my logic circuits fail.
 
Either he votes nee because he's the manipulator, or he's got his reasons, Starscream.
 
i'll explain: political leaders wanted a EU constitution. they even went so far as spending 3,5 million euro's of taxpayers' money to spread propagandistic flyers to tell the voter what to think. one of the political parties was planning to broadcast a 'commercial' showing images of nazi concentration camps and telling the voter to better vote 'yes', unless he or she wanted a third world war. eventually they didn't because of the public outcry it produced.

i don't like people manipulating me and i will not vote for a constitution, that isn't one in the first place.
 
Jeebs said:
Silly French. Guided by the voice of populist agitators, they were. They've got a history of that...

Yup. Fun part is how Chirac pretended to be for the constitution, driving the enraged masses that loathe him to vote "no", just to be in contradiction of the much-detested leader, just as he wanted them to, just as he got everybody to vote for him against Le Pen.

I tell ya, that man knows how to set up his shit so everything goes as he wants to.
 
NASSIONALIZM WEEL BREENG OS VEEKTOREE!!

Or in other words:
As long as Europe consists of self-centered nationalist countries, the EU cannot become a true Union.

Not like that'd be a very realistic idea in the Real World without a Third World War or inner revolution forcing us into it anyway.
 
Ah, I just love those wacky french. Every year each Dutch god-fearing taxpayer gives hundreds of euros to Brussels just so they can give it to french farmers, who then use it to buy crappy wine in enormous plastic jugs to feed their livestock.

Let's all just call quits on this silly european union so our money can go to useful things. Like tulips. And cheese. And wooden shoes.
 
I used to hate the French. Then they voted "No". Now I love them. And I'm sure I'll love the Dutch by Wednesday.

One doesn't need to be a nationalist to hate "the European dream". Look at me. I'm a compulsive masturbator and I hate it as well.

Hm.

I think I'll drink to that. :D
 
Alec.

To that, I think I'll shove the drink up your ear, dress up as Kermit the frog and fuck your mom in the ass with a razor dildo.
 
We Croats are stupid. Here we are, busting ourselves to finally enter EU, and it turns out in a few years time there will be no EU.

I wonder if it's too late to apply to become 51st American state...?
 
John Uskglass said:
Well, it would appear that the French exit polls are indicating a No by 55%. Let us all pray this marks the beggining of the Thousand Year Reign of Sarkozy and the eventual demarxification of France.

Huh? What the fuck does that have to do with the EU constitution? You're really badly informed on this issue, aren't you?

John Uskglass said:
But what does this mean for the EU? Is this a good thing.

What the hell is "a good thing"? This constitution has its strong points and its weak points, there's no way to see if it works out well except to jump 20 years into the future and see what happened after denying or ratifying it.

This is not a simple yes-no issue. This is a very complex book. Those people that complain it forces liberalization on the memberstates are right. The people that complain it is too social or...less right, but it is more social than what we have now. Those who say bigger states get more power are right. Those who say small states get more power are right. It's all in there, it's just a question of how it'd be used.

What I think, though, is that this is a step forwards towards democratizing the EU (as there was only one thing the constitution definitely was, and that was undemocratic) and a definite step backwards in the growth of power (and economy) of the EU. We're weaker without the constitution, but if they handle it properly we might actually stop sucking so badly.

Ratty; join the EFTA instead. You get all the perks of the common market without the hassle of the EU.
 
Huh? What the fuck does that have to do with the EU constitution? You're really badly informed on this issue, aren't you?
More like not blinded by Socialsit leanings.

Fabius cannot control the Socialists; the pro-Euros will feel deeply betrayed. Chirac is dead in the Water. It's Sarkozy's time. He will be the UMP candidate in 2007, he will win, and lead France into Demarxification.
 
More like not blinded by Socialsit leanings.

Fabius cannot control the Socialists; the pro-Euros will feel deeply betrayed. Chirac is dead in the Water. It's Sarkozy's time. He will be the UMP candidate in 2007, he will win, and lead France into Demarxification.


If the outcome of the referendum has told us anything about the next elections it's that France will prefer protectionist economics rather than laizzes faire capitalism in the next term. Wether you like it or not, a socialist term seems inevitable.

Do you honestly think the outrage Bolkestein sparked in France is going to prompt people to massively vote for the French version of Bolkestein?
 
alec said:
I used to hate the French. Then they voted "No". Now I love them. And I'm sure I'll love the Dutch by Wednesday.

Word! This is exactly what ive thought today as i read the news paper. The really evil thing is that our people (in Austria) don´t get asked about this crap! France has the right to vote and nobody cares about our opinion!
I hate this shit EU crap, i hate every Country as long as "I´m born in Amerika" is more worth than "I´m a human" but thats another story, im happy that french voted for no.
 
What I'd like to know right now, though, is how many of you people actually know what is in the constitution?
I sure as hell don't, but I can't vote anyway.
 
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