Genre Orphans: Alpha Protocol

[The Courier]

I just sat down to watch this video from a pretty brilliant youtuber, Noah Caldwell-Gervais. I thought I'd share this video as he is analyzing one of my personal favorite games, Alpha Protocol. A game which is so wildly, deeply flawed but I still manage to adore. It just kind of hits a lot of the notes I like in an RPG whilst simultaneously hitting all the wrongest, sourest notes as a Stealth Action game, another genre I love. Despite that, I consider it one of Obsidian's little gems. Assuming you can forgive it's numerous flaws. Noah hits all the major points about this game right on the head, in my opinion, anyway.

 

[Hassknecht]

Yeah, I linked to him on here a few times, too. His videos are really good, he made a reeeeaaaally long video about the Fallout series as well.
I think he's also a user here himself.

 

[34thcell]

This game proves that Obsidian should be the one making interactive movies. The dialogue is basically a Telltale spinoff game done right.

 

[Walpknut]

Alpha Protocol delivered on the kid of thing Teltale "games" always claim to do yet completely fail at actually doing, sure it was pretty buggy and kind of clunky gameplay wise (altho this is more because SEGA forced them to change gameplay genre halfway through the proyect) but it was still a pretty cool experience. Too bad no sequels will be made.

 

[PossibleCabbage]

I really liked Alpha Protocol. The whole conversation mechanic where you choose how to react to someone is one of the best uses of the QTE I've seen in games. I wonder why other games haven't ripped that off entirely.

Also, the beard you can give Mike is amazing.

 

[Walpknut]

I made an habit of changing Mike's look every time we changed hubs. I beat the game with full hobo beard.

 

[fred2]

A game which is so wildly, deeply flawed but I still manage to adore. It just kind of hits a lot of the notes I like in an RPG whilst simultaneously hitting all the wrongest

Indeed. Unfortunately Obsidian are at their best when applying polish and better writing to someone else work.

 

[The Courier]

Obsidian always seems to be having an an 18-carat run of bad luck. Their writing and actual roleplay systems are some of the finest in the genre. But most everything else seems to fall apart around them, usually on account of publisher meddling. Lucasarts, Bethesda and Sega, all the same shit. Hell, Knights of the Old Republic 2 was, in my eyes, 10 times better than Bioware's effort, with or without the cut content. (Mainly for the way the game questioned your motives constantly rather than stick with the tired light side/dark side stuff.)

I think I disagree with one particular thing Noah brought up. I think the tonal mishmash of cartoon and serious was one of my favorite aspects to the game. Especially for Steven Heck. The combination of classic spy film aesthetic and strange dark humor just hit the spot for me. Sure, it's excessive. But I like excessive. It's strange and vibrant in a way I love.

 

[fred2]

Obsidian always seems to be having an an 18-carat run of bad luck.

This remind me the popular trope about a kid who has a looooooooooot of potential, but there is always something *insert excuses here* that prevent him to actually amount to anything ..

Don't get me wrong I love Obsidian game, they are one of the few large devs who cater to our needs, but I wish there were more choice for us.. So I don't have to hear the same excuses parroted every time they have to bend over(like everyone else) to the reality of accessible games.

 

[TorontoReign]

Obsidian always seems to be having an an 18-carat run of bad luck.

This remind me the popular trope about a kid who has a looooooooooot of potential, but there is always something *insert excuses here* that prevent him to actually amount to anything ..

Don't get me wrong I love Obsidian game, they are one of the few large devs who cater to our needs, but I wish there were more choice for us.. So I don't have to hear the same excuses parroted every time they have to bend over(like everyone else) to the reality of accessible games.

Obsidian is consistently underrated by mainstream reviewers despite their proficiency with RPG mechanics and dialog/plot. People often make excuses for them, in some cases they are right to, like with New Vegas which had probably half the development time of the inferior Fallout 3, yet it got torn apart about C&C because Bethesda fanboys don't like being locked out from quest-lines when they murder NCR troops. People also make excuses for Obsidian because the publishers always fuck their shit up. Not in every case by any means, but there are more than a couple cases. Alpha Protocol is one of those flawed gems that you always read about. It is a prime example of voiced dialog being done right, as opposed to Mass Effect which I don't care much for.

 

[Walpknut]

Obsidian always goes over ambitious while the people hiring them expect them to just churn out a derivative sequel and usually fuck them over. You could say a lot of it it's their fault for trying too hard, but I rather have a dev that sins for being ambitious than one that succeeds by appealing to mediocrity.

 

[fred2]

Obsidian is consistently underrated by mainstream reviewers despite their proficiency with RPG mechanics and dialog/plot.

hmm.. maybe 'proficiency with RPG mechanics and dialog/plot' isn't the most thought out quality by mainstream gamers?

People often make excuses for them, in some cases they are right to, like with New Vegas which had probably half the development time of the inferior Fallout 3, yet it got torn apart about C&C because Bethesda fanboys don't like being locked out from quest-lines when they murder NCR troops.

Bullshit. They knew the time frame and requirements, and they choose to take that project and decided its scope. The time they had was sufficient to polish (not build) FO3 engine, and unlike Beth they knew their lore/setting. They cut content etc because they wanted to get their goal bonus but they overreached and failed to hit the mark. Just as they overreached with AP and thus there is no squeal planned atm.

People also make excuses for Obsidian because the publishers always fuck their shit up

Lets get it straight, the publishers are the only reason they had a chance at those games at all... they are like that exotic bird that eat the leftovers of the hippo mouth...

 

[Gizmojunk]

Bullshit. They knew the time frame and requirements, and they choose to take that project and decided its scope. The time they had was sufficient to polish (not build) FO3 engine, and unlike Beth they knew their lore/setting. They cut content etc because they wanted to get their goal bonus but they overreached and failed to hit the mark. Just as they overreached with AP and thus there is no squeal planned atm.

I heard that with Bethesda's entire kit sent to them, it took them a week to get the animation workflow functional. That engine decent enough, but it's a quirkfest, and they were new to it.
And they were almost certainly on Bethesda's leash in terms of content. They had to make due with the limitations of the job, and it's an impressive wonder they managed as well as they did ~~and got shafted, and got complaints by unsuitable players for some of the game's strong points.

 

[woo1108]

Alpha protocol is a cool game.
Although it is flawed as a TPS and level designs are linear, it's plot feel like non-linear.

 

[TorontoReign]

Obsidian is consistently underrated by mainstream reviewers despite their proficiency with RPG mechanics and dialog/plot.

hmm.. maybe 'proficiency with RPG mechanics and dialog/plot' isn't the most thought out quality by mainstream gamers?

RPG mechanics and story are two of the most important things in the games they make. C&C is one of the things they excel in. Consequences actually implies locking out certain content if you make a choice though, so mainstream gamers get butt hurt when that happens, so Obsidian gets flack for it. Problem is that the type of game many people want is the type of game that publishers refuse to make. Until Kickstarter came in and saved the day...kinda. Mainstream gamers like shit shoveled into their mouths like Assassins Creed which is basically the same fucking game year after year. They take one or two solid titles and whore them out into they are dead. Not unlike Call of Duty or Battlefield. So thanks for proving my point I guess.

People often make excuses for them, in some cases they are right to, like with New Vegas which had probably half the development time of the inferior Fallout 3, yet it got torn apart about C&C because Bethesda fanboys don't like being locked out from quest-lines when they murder NCR troops.

Bullshit. They knew the time frame and requirements, and they choose to take that project and decided its scope. The time they had was sufficient to polish (not build) FO3 engine, and unlike Beth they knew their lore/setting. They cut content etc because they wanted to get their goal bonus but they overreached and failed to hit the mark. Just as they overreached with AP and thus there is no squeal planned atm.

Have you actually read up on those two games or are you pulling that out of your ass?

People also make excuses for Obsidian because the publishers always fuck their shit up

Lets get it straight, the publishers are the only reason they had a chance at those games at all... they are like that exotic bird that eat the leftovers of the hippo mouth...

Obsidian is the only reason I even bought their games. I could give two shits who published it. Publishers are often responsible for ruining games, not just Obsidian's, if you ever bother to read up on it. Of course they finance the game. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. They also act like dicks since they financed the game, often making the product they intend to make money off of suffer in the process. Kinda like rushing a shit PC port to launch like Arkham Knight. Hmmm...


Note: Not all publishers do this. Shouldn't have to say that but...

 

[The Courier]

I have no doubt that some of the blame lies with Obsidian, they have significant issues as a development team. However, many of these are documented, actual events that happened. Their trouble with publishers has been a constant shit-show since the word go. Lucasarts rushed KOTOR II out the door, Sega screwed with the Alpha Protocol project multiple times throughout, Bethesda's metacritic fuckery and poor QA are more than well known, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

They're my personal favorite RPG developers, but they are very rough around the edges. But I do kinda love that about them. Gives their games a certain texture. Yeah, they're kinda screwy, but there is a special, bright center to them that only a persistent, perceptive player can see.

 

[fred2]

@TorontRayne, In your rage against the machine, you missed the point completely. Knowing your target audience and understand what it cares about is one of the basics of game design. As you said 'Obsidian is consistently underrated by mainstream' hence my suggestion that they aren't delivering the goods for a mainstream game...

Bottom line, who cares if you great weight lifter when you are running the marathon.. and if you are underrated by marathon daily then its because you running skills are lacking.. and excuses are for looser, either go to a weight lifting competition and forget about marathon daily or shut the fuck up....

People want a return for their money? I am shocked! Development issues? c'est la vie EVERYONE have them, obsidian isn't snowflake. Feel constrained by publishers, great at RPG mechanics and story then follow the path of the damned to Pillars of eternity for whining free profit.

 

[TorontoReign]

@TorontRayne, In your rage against the machine, you missed the point completely. Knowing your target audience and understand what it cares about is one of the basics of game design. As you said 'Obsidian is consistently underrated by mainstream' hence my suggestion that they aren't delivering the goods for a mainstream game...

I guess you miss my point. People are fucking idiots. They like shit games. They eat up mediocre garbage like Skyrim and say it is the best RPG ever all the while missing the point of the genre entirely. Which indirectly makes more RPG's pick up traits from inferior titles. Bioware used to make amazing RPG's too. Then they started making mainstream "consolized" RPG's that sold better. Adding voiced dialog had to be a turning point. They cut down all dialog in RPG's since it would cost too much to voice. When people began to think games Fallout 3 and Mass Effect were the benchmark on which all RPG's should be judged things started to decline in a sense.


Edit: People are entitled to like what they like, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't like what they like. Apparently a lot of Kickstarter backers felt the same.

 

[_Antithesis_]

@fred2
I get the feeling that you know very little about actual game development. And that you think the publisher is always right. Because that's how you sound. "IF IT WEREN'T WERE PUBLISHERS, THEY WOULDN'T GET TO MAKE THE GAME!" Yeah, and if it weren't for publishers meddling in development, something THEY know fuckall about, the games would've come out better.

*Godwin's law ENGAGED*
By your logic, Hitler was good because he helped revive the German economy and military. I mean, he massacred a bunch of people and caused a war that wouldn't have happened if he'd just stuck to fixing his own fuckin' country, but whatever. Germany should be grateful to him because he helped ease their fears and helped their economy. Extreme example, obviously, but extreme examples tend to do well to illustrate a person's point.

@The Courier
"Obsidian always seems to be having an 18-carat run of bad luck."
You have no idea how pleased seeing you use that line made me.

 

[woo1108]

People are fucking idiots.

They are not idiots.
They just hate games.
While they hate games, they are lying to everyone including themselves to believe they like games.
This is the reason why interaction movies(A.K.A shitty games) are sold well.

Adding voiced dialog had to be a turning point. They cut down all dialog in RPG's since it would cost too much to voice. When people began to think games Fallout 3 and Mass Effect were the benchmark on which all RPG's should be judged things started to decline in a sense.

All the sins of modern RPGs are born from JRPGs not from voiced dialog.
While Dragon quest and Final fantasy series didn't have voice acting, they ruined RPG.