Getting to the Sierra Madre

H3rw00d1

I should, but I won't
I just thought about this, has anyone realized there's no way for the Courier to get to the Sierra Madre?

In-universe, the Courier gets knocked out in the Brotherhood bunker and he wakes up in the Sierra Madre village. I know in-game there's a door under the map that brings you to the village, but in-universe there seems to be no way there. The only doors in the bunker are the way you came in, a collapsed tunnel and the door that leads to Elijah's room. You can't even see the Sierra Madre or the Cloud on the horizon outside the bunker which means it's no where close.

I just wonder if anyone else thought about this.
 
There's no direct access from the bunker, but Dog was dutifully making his rounds for Elijah and dragging back whoever he found in the "man traps". Its implied by Dog/God and Elijah that the route frm the bunker to the Madre is a difficult-to-navigate trek aross unforgiving terrain, and indeed, it would have to be for the Madre to have remained an unconfirmed legend in the 200 years since the war.

Of course, that's all in-game fluff to cover for the constraints imposed on the player due to limitations placed on the devs, but it works okay if you don't squint too hard at it.
 
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Yeah but that still doesn't explain how Dog regularly goes from the Sierra Madre to the bunker and back so often with a place like the Sierra Madre so far away. Never mind the fact that the Courier had to trek back across that with no help whatsoever which I found funny.
 
Not to include the fact that Dog/God makes that trek regularly, and seems to be able to do it pretty fast considering how far away it's supposed to be and the aggressive environment from the Mojave to Sierra Madre. Maybe because he's a Super Mutant I guess? Still doesn't explain the speed and time at which he's able to cross the wastes though.
 
Do we know how long it actually takes Dog to make the trek? They could all take weeks for all we know, I recently replayed Dead Money and don't remember any direct statement for how long it takes him.
 
I'm just estimating. Considering the statements about how far away it is above, you would have to assume Dog made the trek considerably fast, because he was able to pick you up and take you back to the Sierra Madre (which takes who knows how long), and the events which lead to God locking himself in a cage all before the gas that puts you to sleep wore off. So either the gas somehow allows you to stay asleep for weeks or even days without food and water, OR Dog is just a fast runner I guess.
 
Like the man said, it works well as long as you don't squint too hard.

It's funny that you would say that SnapSlav considering NMA likes to analyze things quite thoroughly and I think this is something worth analyzing. However I still think it's funny how Dog managed to trek that far in such a short amount of time, crossing the river and getting back up the mountains alone (I presume the Sierra Madre is in the east, or at least south-east) should've taken some of that time up.
 
Elijah has a bunch of Big MT tech on him, he could be using some kind of special knockout gas, or he just has his orders to every now and then pour some water down the prisoner's mouth.

Also Super Mutants do run fast, have you fight them? They look like the flash ate the Hulk.
Edit: maybe he is using one of the numerous train tunnels around the wasteland, the Sierra Madre was a resort for the wealthy so there has to be a direct route to them, we know Elijah and Ulysses used the trains to escape the Big MT so he might have some form of using the railways. Maybe Dog just hauls them into a wagon and sits awaiting for orders, or the voice to take control.
 
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The extent of his use of the railroad was plowing it into the tunnel wall to make an exit. It is possible, but unlikely, that some kind of big MT tech is involved, though

Really, it's just handwavium. Why was the bunker linked to the Sierra Madre at all (which it was, as evidenced by the post-completion chip dropoffs and the return of your equipment to the lockers)? Were there others? Why had no one ever seen the Madre and turned back, confirming its location to the world at large? Perhaps Dog took shortcuts across terrain only safely passable to Super Mutants, but if so, why weren't you and the others irradiated or poisoned to the brink of death? How is it possible that the Courier that successfully navigated the dangers and twists of the Divide would need a map to get back from the Madre, and wouldn't be smart enough to follow it back there once he was hoke? Why did the Pip-Boy not log the details of the route like it does for literally every other place the Courier goes?

They needed a way to explain away the constraints of the DLC, so they made up a set of circumstances no amount of apologism can really ever justify. Dead Money may be my favorite DLC, but it is what it is.

I suppose if you wanted to put together a ramshackle narrative of events anyway, you'd have to start with the length of the trip. Has anyone ever actually checked the time that elapses between interacting with the radio and waking up by the fountain? What about timing the return trip?
 
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I suppose if you wanted to put together a ramshackle narrative of events anyway, you'd have to start with the length of the trip. Has anyone ever actually checked the time that elapses between interacting with the radio and waking up by the fountain? What about timing the return trip?

Holy shit. It might be because I'm a little buzzed (Olde E.), but that idea seems incredibly intelligent to me. Why has no one thought of this? Unfortunately I can't be the one to test it because my Aunt stole and pawned my PS3 and Xbox 360.

I remember after finishing Dead Money, I just wanted to get the fuck outta there. Other people wanted to explore the Villa, but I had enough of the Ghost People for a lifetime.

What I want to know is, what do they do with the people they drag into the Cloud? I think that, the Cloud (made by Big Mt.) interacts with their bodies physically, but, usually they should have just died eventually. However if it weren't for the special hazmat suits delivered, they WOULD have died. But somehow the Cloud specially interacts with the Hazmat suit (I believe this was intended) unlike any other radiation/chemical bio suit. These Hazmat suits were specially made FOR the cloud. So the people wearing them, upon coming into long-term contact with the Cloud, didn't die (like we know they should have. In the game, if you spend even more than a few seconds in the Cloud, you start to die a painful death. Why didn't the people wearing Hazmat suits die then?) Simple. Instead of killing them, the Cloud slowly crept in through the suits and a much, much slower, non-lethal pace. Eventually, the bombs hit. The radiation released from the bombs did something to the Cloud. What? I don't know. I don't think we'll ever know. I don't think we were meant to know. But regardless, it did something. The radiation interacted with the Cloud, in turn which interacted with those wearing the Hazmat suits, turning them into Ghost People.

So, my evaluation of the situation is this. 2077, the bombs hit. We know this. There were some people in the Villa who knew naturally that the Hazmat suits were probably the best way to survive the outlying radiation (because, besides the Casino bunker, it's not exactly like there were any safe places to hide). So, they wore the Hazmat suits in order to traverse the Villa, looking for survivors and supplies to survive. In the beginning, it's safe to assume there were many of them. Just the maintenance and managerial employees under the Sierra Madre who worked in the Villa that had access to these suits. It's not like as soon as the bombs fell, everyone in the Villa could go running outside straight for the Hazmat suits. But anyways, eventually, overtime they became Ghost People. The Cloud + Radiation wasn't a good combination at all. I imagine this is a slow and painful process, people seeming to get sick and not knowing why. Little did they know, it was the Hazmat suits they put on everytime they went outside. Eventually, one by one, they turned to Ghost People.

Now, it appears that the Villa wasn't hit directly by a bomb, but instead the bombs hit the outlying land of the Villa, probably miles away (not far enough away that flashes couldn't be seen though). Eventually the radiation crept in the Villa, leading to the events I explained above.

Those who didn't have the Hazmat suits though, either died or became survivalists. However, the Ghost People started to emerge. Surviving wasn't so easy any more. Eventually, one by one, the Ghost People would capture the Villa survivors (like I said, in the beginning there probably wasn't many of them at all) and dragging them off. What would they do to them though? Fit them with a Hazmat suit and expose them to the Cloud to create even more Ghost People. Kind of like a zombie invasion, but a more complicated process than simply biting someone. So, more Ghost People are being made. Until eventually, there are only a select few in the Villa that managed to survive (Dean Domino included). Over the years though, they died either from old age, or killed in a fight with Ghost People, other Villa survivalists, or maybe even people coming to the Villa to seek out the treasure of the Sierra Madre. Eventually, Dean Domino was the only one left out of the original survivors, by some cruel fate or chance, or perhaps because he was driven to get that treasure. No matter what, even if that means surviving the hell of the Villa for 200 long years as a Ghoul.

But, what about the people in the Casino? Well, the survivors couldn't get in with all the security, and the Ghost People had no idea anyone was in there. So, they lived in the Casino, a life a luxury compared to everyone else in the wastes, especially compared to the Villa survivors. Eventually, they grew old and died. They weren't a large enough community to have started their own community, maybe three to five dozen people. Maybe not even that. Regardless, they lived in the Casino, a paradise in the Wasteland. Some of them had kids, some of them didn't Eventually though, they couldn't have survived, not without several generations of in-breeding. Eventually they all died out.

And that's my story on the Villa.
 
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Has anyone ever actually checked the time that elapses between interacting with the radio and waking up by the fountain? What about timing the return trip?

I played Dead Money recently and I actually tried finding that out. Apparently time doesn't move like it does in the other DLC's. It just stayed at the same date the entire time, only the hours during that day kept moving until the hours "reset" at the final hour, it was like Groundhog Day.
 
So, they lived in the Casino, a life a luxury compared to everyone else in the wastes, especially compared to the Villa survivors. Eventually, they grew old and died. They weren't a large enough community to have started their own community, maybe three to five dozen people. Maybe not even that. Regardless, they lived in the Casino, a paradise in the Wasteland. Some of them had kids, some of them didn't Eventually though, they couldn't have survived, not without several generations of in-breeding. Eventually they all died out.

And that's my story on the Villa.

Sorry about the bump, but that's incorrect. iirc the Holograms went crazy and started wiping out all the guests in the Casino, right?
 
Sorry about the bump, but that's incorrect. iirc the Holograms went crazy and started wiping out all the guests in the Casino, right?

Yup, in fact that's why Vera killed herself, because the Holograms trapped her in her room, so she overdosed herself to death.
 
The Ghost people are just a group of the workers that got mutated and trapped in their Hazmat Suits (which were done like that on propouse by Big Mountain) and the Holograms jsut killed everyone else inside the Casino. You can actually find their skeletons, there is even a family that seems to have comited suicide on the Backstage of the Tampico just to avoid getting massacred by the Hologram guards.
 
I suppose if you wanted to put together a ramshackle narrative of events anyway, you'd have to start with the length of the trip. Has anyone ever actually checked the time that elapses between interacting with the radio and waking up by the fountain? What about timing the return trip?

If it helps, I started the journey at 24/11/81 23:11 and after speaking with Elaijah, my pip-boy was marking 25/11/81 8:11

A nine hour trip to a forsaken place "famous" to kill everyone, but not knowable by anyone in Nevada? :eyebrow:
 
My guess would be the Sierra Madre is across the river and close to legion territory, legion just never decided to check the area out or it was too dangerous and not worth the effort.
 
It does require a decent amount of suspension of disbelief,buuuut.....

It's not too hard to believe that whatever chemical concoction got blasted through the Bunker's vents could have the ability to put the Courier under for just over a day or so, it's not like he's going to die of starvation and thirst in that time.

It's also referenced several times that the Sierra Madre is rather hard to get to and is in a strange, hidden location in a difficult to traverse area of the desert (Terminal mentions of Sinclair making the place obscenely hard to reach, as well as The Courier inquiring as to the directions to get back home etc.)

So I don't find it that hard to believe that the Sierra Madre is just located in a well hidden area of a hard to traverse area of the desert, as Sinclair designed, and that Dog is so used to making the trip that he knows the way off by heart, and running at full speed could probably get there in over a day.


Not the most unlikely of theories, really.
 
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