Ghouls not needing food was retconned in NV not 4

Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by ElloinmorninJ, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. Morgan_

    Morgan_ The Fool

    Jul 3, 2020
    When looking at NV and its dlc as one whole package I dont disagree but I just don't think they did a very good job of it for my taste. Not all of it was bad thiugh. I also didn't play the dlc when they came out so I did them out of order iirc. Maybe you cant tho and Im just misremembering. I did not like Dead Money at all. Maybe as bad as The Divide. Dog seemed like he was written by an edgy teen and the way your weapons were taken from you and enemies were invulnerable was also a big no for me. Would have been a good film or show in the vein of Lost. Bad game design imo.

    For me OWB needed to scratch the itch of creepy military base. Honest Hearts was not standout but it was the most well balanced I think.
     
  2. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Eh, I feel like Dead Money tried to do something different: it tried to be more of a Survival Horror than a shooter RPG, and in terms of that it did a good job. The reason it's so hated I feel is because it's very much at odds with what's expected from the rest of the game, and it's designed to be something that the rest of the franchise is not. I think it's perfectly well designed gameplay wise, it's just that players entered with an expectation of it being something it's not, because it's not what the rest of New Vegas is.

    I also disagree in regards to Honest Hearts, I feel like Joshua Graham and Daniel are both incredibly interestingly written, and the conflicts are inherently tied to both their characters, and the imminent threat of the White Legs: Do you take the moral highground and turn to pacifism even in the face of a threat, if not where do you stop with the violence?, If we normalise violence as a response, where does it end?

    Moreover it's all tied to Daniel's trauma over the destruction of New Canaan, and Joshua Graham's anger, saviour complex and overall tendency to normalise vengeance and retribution as responses. Honest Hearts is incredibly interesting in a lot of ways.

    In regards to the rest of the DLC I agree. There are plenty of interesting themes, but it's kinda lost under layers of overall badness that make it kinda difficult to go back to.
     
  3. Morgan_

    Morgan_ The Fool

    Jul 3, 2020
    Also, I'm going off of my memory of my opinions from when I was like 16so I may have a different opinion today. Who knows :shrug:
     
  4. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    ?
     
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  5. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    468
    May 12, 2020
    Autismopolis is what he probably meant. As in Autism + opolis.
     
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  6. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    I initially misread it as Austinopolis, and imagined a sci fi version of Texas.
     
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  7. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Snug Rubber

    Sep 11, 2010
    No I get what word he meant to use I just don't either of his two replies to me. What hill am I dying on, why use the term "dying on this hill" and why am I being an autist? Just seems like he's got a sudden case of sandy vagina when it comes to me and I don't get why.

    GM, would you kindly elaborate on both your posts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  8. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    I don't even know who you are.
     
  9. Iprovidelittlepianos

    Iprovidelittlepianos Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    468
    May 12, 2020
    Ok so since this thread is still going I’d like to address some of your points.
    This can easily be explained by FEV. It generally makes things big and ugly.
    Fair point. I believe that they were meant to be the same flatworms experimented on with FEV by West-Tek in the pre-human testing days. Although you would think they’d only be found around the Glow. It’s possible there were some brought over to Mariposa, but I feel that is unlikely.
    Well there’s no real specific reason other than flatworms were one of the many different species West-Tek chose to test FEV on. Obviously such a creature would be easier to come by pre-war.
    FEV works in mysterious ways. The Master seems to have a telekinetic link to all super mutants that extends to at least the distance between the Cathedral and Mariposa. It stands to reason that he would have an easy time controlling the lesser FEV mutants.

    Now as for creatures like nightstalkers, I would like to have an explanation for how something like that came to be. I could believe cazadores were just mutated by radiation, but a dog with a snake’s head and tail doesn’t seem “natural”. So I liked the explanation we got from old world blues for where those came from. But overall I agree with you, old world blues kinda sucked. I can enjoy it for what it is, but it’s like they took the worst of fallout 2 and then Flanderized it to Bethesda levels of goofiness.
     
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  10. Morgan_

    Morgan_ The Fool

    Jul 3, 2020
    Fucking pussy
    20210223_213755.jpg
     
  11. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    Some fuck pussy, you fuck dogs. it is weird how things play out.

    We got that. one of those asshole Doctors from Old World Blues made them because SCIENCE! Does the Builder explain to the brick why he makes the wall? The Potter to the clay? thus why should a genius explain it to a naive such as you would be their reason as to why they did it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  12. Morgan_

    Morgan_ The Fool

    Jul 3, 2020
    20210223_213849.jpg
    20210223_213908.jpg

    New Vegas dlc shows that the main game was an extraordinary fluke. In every other timeline NV was worse than 3. Loansome Road is the second most unenjoyable Fallout media with the alien one from 3 being first.
     
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  13. MasterworkStone

    MasterworkStone Wasteland nobody

    97
    Jul 9, 2016
    This subject has always seemed stupid to me because no one ever thinks about human nature in this.
    Even if you don't need to eat anymore, would you be willing to just starve forever?

    I don't think Ghouls not needing to eat was ever retconned, it's just that ghouls would prefer not to be in constant pain, if given zero options for something to fill their stomachs then yes I believe that they would be fine, but I don't think that stomach pain would ever go away or that even if it does eventually stop hurting that a ghoul who's still coherent enough to converse would be willing to find out given the option not to.
     
  14. TheGM

    TheGM The voice of reason

    Aug 19, 2008
    All I know is Set threatened to eat me and sing that happy tummy song.
     
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  15. Jogre

    Jogre So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Oct 25, 2015
    Mr Fish was one of the most prominent posters here back in the 2015-2016 period, known for their variety of strange fetishes.
     
  16. hexer

    hexer It's PJ! Modder

    401
    Dec 7, 2013
    How the Master created his mutant pets is pretty much explained in his audio diary from FO1.
     
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  17. Risewild

    Risewild Carbon Dated and Proud
    Modder Orderite

    Jun 14, 2014
    Fallout New Vegas' Harland's dialogue with the Courier:
    Seems like the opposite of a retcon.
    As I quoted above, in FNV ghouls also have to use the bathroom.

    As others have mentioned, it's possible that there's automatic/mechanized food distribution to the camp (since Big Mountain is all high tech and all).

    The camp also has a mess hall/refectory tent with lots of large, closed crates that can't be interacted with and lots of empty milk crates too, maybe those large crates are or were full of preserved food. This tent also has a fridge that still has some food in it, showing that not all the food in the camp has been consumed.

    There are some lockers and boxes around the camp that sometimes have Sunset Sarsaparilla's and food in them (usually Sugar Bombs when I tested those containers).

    There's also large puddles of green radioactive watery sludge on the ground, there's no visible radioactive materials around where this sludge could come from, so maybe it's just water full of radioactive plant matter (like algae or fungus) and the ghouls could consume that sludge.

    There's two non-feral ghouls named "Number 34" and "Number 27" on top pf the cliffs right next to the camp, these ghouls have bomb collars and wield Protonic Inversal Axes and Protonic Inversal Throwing Axes. Since these ghouls are not feral yet, and somehow managed to avoid their collars exploding (this only happens when ghouls try to go out of the camp gates, which have speakers with the same sound signal as Sierra Madre), it shows they are intelligent. Maybe they go out of the camp (probably using a pile of mattresses that are stacked over the fence, allowing an easy way out without using the gates), hunt for food and then bring it back to feed their old friends that are now ferals (probably just by coming over the camp fence, jumping from rails in the Guard Tower).
    This can also mean that before becoming feral, the other ghouls could also exit the camp even with the bomb collars on them (the same way as Number 34 and 27 do now), and scavenge and/or hunt for food.
    This could also explain why the food that is still in that fridge (that I mentioned before), is wasteland food and not pre-war food. Since it looks like the ghouls can get and prepare food after the bombs fell. When I tested the fridge, it had Iguana Bits and Iguana-on-a-Stick, so I guess it's also possible that iguanas are hunted or just wander inside the camp from time to time, getting turned into food.

    Anyway, FNV do offer some room for people to come up with possibilities on why and how these ghouls survive. Even if some do require some mental gymnastics.

    The problem people have with how FO4 does it, is with the Kid in the Fridge quest (like others mentioned before), because it's fully stated that a ghoul can survive inside a fridge for 210 years without food or water (well, he had a pudding that he ate a long time ago :clap:).
    It's a kid inside a sealed fridge for 210 years, it's impossible for him to get food or water in any way. There's no way of someone to say something like "someone provided food or water to him, somehow" or "he ate radroaches, moss, etc. and drank water from condensation".
    There's not really any other explanation except he doesn't need food or water to live.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021