Ghouls not needing food was retconned in NV not 4

[Morgan_]

I personally found it very satisfying. I found it to be very much in the Fallout style of humour: Satirization of the 50s and weird pulp sci-fi paired in total tandem with dystopianism and darkness. Dead Money handled the straight dark aspect perfectly, and I think going for a repeat approach of completely straight horror/tragedy would have made them too similar.

Big Mountain is full of weird and wonderful technologies which are a treat to discover and explore. The humour was a nice juxtaposition and very natural with 50's SCIENCE, but it also came with the darkness: Human experimentation, a concentration camp of interned PoWs and of course the reveal of the "real" story being that The Think Tank had drifted so far away from their humanity in their "So preoccupied with whether they could they never stopped to think if they should" approach to science that they became an existential threat of the kind that they were meant to be making this technology to vanguard against in the first place, their only colleague with a morale compass locking them into this farcical dementia cycle that is absurd on the surface but really quite grim and sad underneath. I also enjoyed the Elijah/Ulysess/Christine subplot.

My only complaint about OWB (barring gameplay which is the godawful bulletsponge enemies) is that the delivery of some of the jokes is really dated in 2011 era internet humour, which is a shame but something I look over in the same way that the original Fallouts ooze with 90s cultural debry.

When looking at NV and its dlc as one whole package I dont disagree but I just don't think they did a very good job of it for my taste. Not all of it was bad thiugh. I also didn't play the dlc when they came out so I did them out of order iirc. Maybe you cant tho and Im just misremembering. I did not like Dead Money at all. Maybe as bad as The Divide. Dog seemed like he was written by an edgy teen and the way your weapons were taken from you and enemies were invulnerable was also a big no for me. Would have been a good film or show in the vein of Lost. Bad game design imo.

For me OWB needed to scratch the itch of creepy military base. Honest Hearts was not standout but it was the most well balanced I think.

 

[Jogre]

When looking at NV and its dlc as one whole package I dont disagree but I just don't think they did a very good job of it for my taste. Not all of it was bad thiugh. I also didn't play the dlc when they came out so I did them out of order iirc. Maybe you cant tho and Im just misremembering. I did not like Dead Money at all. Maybe as bad as The Divide. Dog seemed like he was written by an edgy teen and the way your weapons were taken from you and enemies were invulnerable was also a big no for me. Would have been a good film or show in the vein of Lost. Bad game design imo.

For me OWB needed to scratch the itch of creepy military base. Honest Hearts was not standout but it was the most well balanced I think.

Eh, I feel like Dead Money tried to do something different: it tried to be more of a Survival Horror than a shooter RPG, and in terms of that it did a good job. The reason it's so hated I feel is because it's very much at odds with what's expected from the rest of the game, and it's designed to be something that the rest of the franchise is not. I think it's perfectly well designed gameplay wise, it's just that players entered with an expectation of it being something it's not, because it's not what the rest of New Vegas is.

I also disagree in regards to Honest Hearts, I feel like Joshua Graham and Daniel are both incredibly interestingly written, and the conflicts are inherently tied to both their characters, and the imminent threat of the White Legs: Do you take the moral highground and turn to pacifism even in the face of a threat, if not where do you stop with the violence?, If we normalise violence as a response, where does it end?

Moreover it's all tied to Daniel's trauma over the destruction of New Canaan, and Joshua Graham's anger, saviour complex and overall tendency to normalise vengeance and retribution as responses. Honest Hearts is incredibly interesting in a lot of ways.

In regards to the rest of the DLC I agree. There are plenty of interesting themes, but it's kinda lost under layers of overall badness that make it kinda difficult to go back to.

 

[Morgan_]

Also, I'm going off of my memory of my opinions from when I was like 16so I may have a different opinion today. Who knows

 

[Mr Fish]

Mr.Fish has found the hill he wanted to die on, he named that hill Austimopolis.

?

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

Autismopolis is what he probably meant. As in Autism + opolis.

 

[Jogre]

I initially misread it as Austinopolis, and imagined a sci fi version of Texas.

 

[Mr Fish]

Autismopolis is what he probably meant. As in Autism + opolis.

No I get what word he meant to use I just don't either of his two replies to me. What hill am I dying on, why use the term "dying on this hill" and why am I being an autist? Just seems like he's got a sudden case of sandy vagina when it comes to me and I don't get why.

GM, would you kindly elaborate on both your posts.

 

[TheGM]

seems like he's got a sudden case of sandy vagina when it comes to me and I don't get why.

I don't even know who you are.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

Ok so since this thread is still going I’d like to address some of your points.

Why the size? Why the distinctly different look?

This can easily be explained by FEV. It generally makes things big and ugly.

How did The Master manage to get a hold of them?

Fair point. I believe that they were meant to be the same flatworms experimented on with FEV by West-Tek in the pre-human testing days. Although you would think they’d only be found around the Glow. It’s possible there were some brought over to Mariposa, but I feel that is unlikely.

Why Flatworms out of all things?

Well there’s no real specific reason other than flatworms were one of the many different species West-Tek chose to test FEV on. Obviously such a creature would be easier to come by pre-war.

And how are they so docile around the super mutants, willing to travel with them?

FEV works in mysterious ways. The Master seems to have a telekinetic link to all super mutants that extends to at least the distance between the Cathedral and Mariposa. It stands to reason that he would have an easy time controlling the lesser FEV mutants.

Now as for creatures like nightstalkers, I would like to have an explanation for how something like that came to be. I could believe cazadores were just mutated by radiation, but a dog with a snake’s head and tail doesn’t seem “natural”. So I liked the explanation we got from old world blues for where those came from. But overall I agree with you, old world blues kinda sucked. I can enjoy it for what it is, but it’s like they took the worst of fallout 2 and then Flanderized it to Bethesda levels of goofiness.

 

[Morgan_]

I don't even know who you are.

Fucking pussy

Spoiler

 

[TheGM]

Fucking pussy

Some fuck pussy, you fuck dogs. it is weird how things play out.

Now as for creatures like nightstalkers, I would like to have an explanation for how something like that came to be.

We got that. one of those asshole Doctors from Old World Blues made them because SCIENCE! Does the Builder explain to the brick why he makes the wall? The Potter to the clay? thus why should a genius explain it to a naive such as you would be their reason as to why they did it.

 

[Morgan_]

Some fuck pussy, you fuck dogs. it is weird how things play out.

Spoiler

New Vegas dlc shows that the main game was an extraordinary fluke. In every other timeline NV was worse than 3. Loansome Road is the second most unenjoyable Fallout media with the alien one from 3 being first.

 

[MasterworkStone]

This subject has always seemed stupid to me because no one ever thinks about human nature in this.
Even if you don't need to eat anymore, would you be willing to just starve forever?

I don't think Ghouls not needing to eat was ever retconned, it's just that ghouls would prefer not to be in constant pain, if given zero options for something to fill their stomachs then yes I believe that they would be fine, but I don't think that stomach pain would ever go away or that even if it does eventually stop hurting that a ghoul who's still coherent enough to converse would be willing to find out given the option not to.

 

[TheGM]

All I know is Set threatened to eat me and sing that happy tummy song.

 

[Jogre]

I don't even know who you are.

Mr Fish was one of the most prominent posters here back in the 2015-2016 period, known for their variety of strange fetishes.

 

[hexer]

How the Master created his mutant pets is pretty much explained in his audio diary from FO1.

 

[Risewild]

Ghouls not needing food was retconned in NV not 4

Fallout New Vegas' Harland's dialogue with the Courier:

Courier: How have you survived?
Harland: I'm not delicate. Radroach meat for protein, condensation off the pipes for water, and I do my business over in the far corner.

[...]

Courier: Chris said you might know where I can find computer parts.
Harland: He did, did he? I swear, I should tear the rest of the hair out of that cocksucker's head.
Send a rescue mission after Harland? Nah, let's just send some smoothskin whose radio got broke!
Harland's tough! He probably enjoys waiting to be attacked at any moment! He probably loves eating nothing but roach meat! Licking up condensation from a rusted pipe is his idea of fun! So's doing his business in a corner, and smelling it for days!

Seems like the opposite of a retcon.

Pretty sure it's stated in Van Buren that they don't need to use bathrooms. I guess they can eat and drink but aren't required to.

As I quoted above, in FNV ghouls also have to use the bathroom.

As others have mentioned, it's possible that there's automatic/mechanized food distribution to the camp (since Big Mountain is all high tech and all).

The camp also has a mess hall/refectory tent with lots of large, closed crates that can't be interacted with and lots of empty milk crates too, maybe those large crates are or were full of preserved food. This tent also has a fridge that still has some food in it, showing that not all the food in the camp has been consumed.

There are some lockers and boxes around the camp that sometimes have Sunset Sarsaparilla's and food in them (usually Sugar Bombs when I tested those containers).

There's also large puddles of green radioactive watery sludge on the ground, there's no visible radioactive materials around where this sludge could come from, so maybe it's just water full of radioactive plant matter (like algae or fungus) and the ghouls could consume that sludge.

There's two non-feral ghouls named "Number 34" and "Number 27" on top pf the cliffs right next to the camp, these ghouls have bomb collars and wield Protonic Inversal Axes and Protonic Inversal Throwing Axes. Since these ghouls are not feral yet, and somehow managed to avoid their collars exploding (this only happens when ghouls try to go out of the camp gates, which have speakers with the same sound signal as Sierra Madre), it shows they are intelligent. Maybe they go out of the camp (probably using a pile of mattresses that are stacked over the fence, allowing an easy way out without using the gates), hunt for food and then bring it back to feed their old friends that are now ferals (probably just by coming over the camp fence, jumping from rails in the Guard Tower).
This can also mean that before becoming feral, the other ghouls could also exit the camp even with the bomb collars on them (the same way as Number 34 and 27 do now), and scavenge and/or hunt for food.
This could also explain why the food that is still in that fridge (that I mentioned before), is wasteland food and not pre-war food. Since it looks like the ghouls can get and prepare food after the bombs fell. When I tested the fridge, it had Iguana Bits and Iguana-on-a-Stick, so I guess it's also possible that iguanas are hunted or just wander inside the camp from time to time, getting turned into food.

Anyway, FNV do offer some room for people to come up with possibilities on why and how these ghouls survive. Even if some do require some mental gymnastics.

The problem people have with how FO4 does it, is with the Kid in the Fridge quest (like others mentioned before), because it's fully stated that a ghoul can survive inside a fridge for 210 years without food or water (well, he had a pudding that he ate a long time ago ).
It's a kid inside a sealed fridge for 210 years, it's impossible for him to get food or water in any way. There's no way of someone to say something like "someone provided food or water to him, somehow" or "he ate radroaches, moss, etc. and drank water from condensation".
There's not really any other explanation except he doesn't need food or water to live.