Ghouls or Mutants? cont.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kilroy
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RE: Just when you thought the thread could rest in peace...

Whoever was saying that when your dipped in the game you turn into a ghoul is wrong and I can prove it. It's obvious that your arm grows to a large degree which indicates a super mutant. Also in Richard Greys logs it says that those with limited radiation remain smarter mutants, like the Leutenant. There is also a sound file that is on the CD that is supposed to play that doesn't (I ripped all of the sounds) that clearly explains that "you are one of the best soldiers of the master's army", "and you killed the over-seer for the unity".(i'd be happy to send it to you)
Ghouls were caused by radiation, and there is lotsa evidence.
1. Ghouls don't suffer from radiation.
2. Ghouls are only found in radiated areas
3. Some Ghouls are so radiated that they glow
4. Someone in fallout says that "Necropolis took a direct hit during the war" I'll find it if anyone still cares.
5. Harold was around WAY before the master was. Remember, the master is just starting when you emerge around 80 years after the war, but harold mentions when the bombs drop (I think, it's been a while.)
6. There is no reason to think that ghouls are related to FEV, they are found on completely different parts of the map, and are never mentioned by either the master or the leutenant even if you ask them.
7. Ghouls arn't weren't radiation free before being dipped, in fact, they would have even more radiation because they lived outside of the vaults for at least as long as everyone else. Also if the master had a vault to experiment on and found out that it failed he wouldn't want your vault.
8. I am sure I've seen somewhere the ghouls were mutated by radiation. I even believe that harold says that there was radiation in the base that they were attacking.
9. I'm sure the brotherhood of steel had run into ghouls before mutants as they are more common, and they never mention anything about a ghoul being infected with FEV (which they do in the autopsy report for a Super-Mutant)

Also, I believe that Super-Mutants Would live longer then ghouls because ghouls seem to have a problem with body parts falling off. The computer in the Glow says that super-mutants could live forever because all of there cells regenerate, and also the fact that they are in fallout2 without any of the problems that the ghouls have seem to have supports it.

Well, that's the 2 cents
 
Disagree about Super Mutants

I recall FO2 a Super Mutant in Broken Hills complaining about how when he advances in age his strength has diminished to the point of a normal human. Now, looking at that evidence it is apparent that mutants age, and their cells die and eventually stope regenerating.

You still have to have PROOF. Remember, this is just a theory, an interesting one that can be still proven if BIS decides on this path.
 
RE: You speak of the Master

The wife in the Bishop family in New Reno (can't remember her name) was a Vault City citizen who was kicked out because her now-husband tricked her into becoming addicted to Jet. You can find out the information by talking to her about why she sounds educated after having sex with her (you need a high speech skill). I am not sure if she counts as one of the two people kicked out of Vault 8, since this was after it became Vault City.
 
[font size=1" color="#FF0000]LAST EDITED ON May-06-01 AT 09:23AM (GMT)[p]Here are some interesting things I have found:

1)Harold is a mutant, not a ghoul, and was mutated by FEV:
From the FO1 strategy guide (which Chris Taylor played a role in the creation of):

---Begin Book Quote--- pp.97
Harold: An Old, Old Mutant
Harold is the oldest person alive in the Hub. In fact, he was five years old when the war started. After his vault opened and its inhabitants made their way out into the wasteland, he bacame a merchant.

At some point many years ago, e handled an artifact contaminated with the FEV virus that caused him to mutate. He is now very old, dick, and he tends to ramble on a lot. Some of his information may be out of date. He can br cranky at times, but he likes to tell stories. He could be a good source of information on peopld and things within the Hub, and it's worthwhile talking to him to find out what he knows.

Hints
Be patient with Harold and draw him out. He has one critical piece of information that may be of use: He knew the Master when the Master was still human, and he has been to the lost military base.
---End Book Quote---

OK, most of this is supported from the game, some is supposition, but none of it is contradicted. If you are going to say that handling an artifact didn't make him mutate, then remember that Harold tells you once he woke up he wandered for several days before starting to mutate.

Also, this establishes that Harold is a mutant, not a ghoul. When you talk to him in the game, he never mentions ghouls, just that he "mutated."


2) The Master is a mutant, not a ghoul:
From the FO1 strategy guide:

---Begin--- pp. 106
The Master:
<snip>
Once a normal human, long ago, he was mutated by exposure to the FEV virus. Along the way since then, he has somehow hybridized with other human mutants and with computers, turning him into a rather strange and schizoid monster who speaking in multiple voices.
---End---


3) Super-mutants are created by FEV.
From FO1 strategy guide:
---Begin--- pp.107
Super-Mutants
Big, stupid, and ugly. That pretty much sums up these monsters, once normal humans who were converted into their present from by being immersed in the Master's FEV vats. He is creating an army of these creatues to help him take over the world.
---End---

This same page also states that Nightkin are just super-mutants with Stealh Boys, though I don't think that was ever an issue here.


4) Mutants are temporarily sterile, ghouls are permenantly sterile. Talk to whats-his-name at the Old Ghoul's Home in Broken Hills in FO2 to find out about the ghouls. Recruit Harold, buy him time with a whore at the Cat's Paw in New Reno, when he is finished he says (in a line above his head), "I hope she doesn't get pregnant." You can ask him about this, saying you though that mutants were sterile, and he replies that it "just takes a few years to get the juices flowin' again."


I pose a question now: Could there be two types of mutants, normal (Harlold, the Master before hydribizing [if that's a word]) and super (the Lieutenant, etc.)? Normals created by low-level exposure (handling an object) or maybe FEV-1, and supers created by high-level exposure (dipped in a tank of it) or maybe by FEV-2? (For clarification, I mean the low- and high-level idea to be seperate from the FEV-1 and -2 idea, I am just offering two possible causes.)

And another question: Other than the Harold-wasn't-outside-at-the-time-of-the-blast-yet-he-is-a-ghoul theory which I believe I have debunked, what other evidence do you have that Ghouls aren't the people who were outside, near a blast?


I would like to have a nice, civil debate on the subject, without everyone resorting to insulting each others manhood. And I apologize in advance from any typos that I didn't catch when I proofread this.
 
Verry funny....

Resurrecting this to say that ghouls are the by-product of prolonged radiation posioning over years (no, a trip to the Glow would be too much - think a small leakage over years into a vault and you have Vault 12, Necropolis), nothing to do with the FEV/FEV2 at all.

According to Tim Cain, that is.

:)
 
RE: Verry funny....

I beleive that someone earlier said the the fev and radiation both screw with genes (fev in a good way and rad in a bad way).Perhaps a ghoul is the product of the fev and rad 'conflicting' (for lack of a better word) in the subjects body, gaining some of the resistances of a mutant but being physicaly frail and 'flakey'.
There was a perk in FOT called 'glowing one' that could be given to a ghoul which beter healing in rad exposure, perhaps ghouls are the ideal race for a completely irradiated planet (apart from the sterility thing)
i kinda feel out of my depth here but i thought i would post this anyway because i would like to see this post revived i have enjoyed the debate immensly :-)
 
Arrgh, nooo!!!

Not this inane discussion all over again! Fallout is NOT an exact science! Please, stop it!!!! I beg you!..



http://www.nma-fallout.com/cgi-bin/forum/ForumID5/786.shtml#11

zero-x's bitter words after his encounter with roshambo:

"I agree with you but there comes a fuckin point i dont know who roquirbo thinks he is but I at least you didnt really criticize me and i appreciate that i hate people who fuck with my ideas when i didnt say shit to em and yes he is the kind of guy i would take a scalpel tear his head open the take an hammer use the end to samsh through the medulla and use the nail pull as a pry to pull back the top of the skull revealing a brain (small but brain nontheless)and take desert eagle magnum and blow it through his fucking spine as he still breath and then rip out his heart and show him how black it is before he dies but as you said thats illegal well cya"
 
RE: Verry funny....

1. FOT was a crock of bullshit. Very little went along to the other games at all. Dan Levin was a pimple on Fallout's ass that got squeezed too late.
2. The original designers have said Mutants = FEV, Ghouls = prolonged exposure to radiation.
 
RE: Verry funny....

You DO get radiated if you get hit by a ghoul. It just isn't mentioned in the message window. (At least in the European version) If ghouls are made by the FEV, how come there aren't any at the Military Base in FO2?

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"The frogurt is also cursed."

"Call me a vagabond, and I'll smile. Call me a thief, and I'll laugh. Call me a liar, and I feed you your liver."
 
RE: My final words in this.

Maybe it's dependent on your DNA structure and amount of radiation, whether you become a ghoul or mutant. After all, you find out somewhere (I think its the lieutenant or master) that those who have been too changed from radiation die when exposed to FEV (probably what gave the enclave the idea to use it to kill everyone). Maybe some don't die but turn in to ghouls instead.

The main problem with FEV creating ghouls is that there are so many, and FEV isn't that common. The mutants were manufactured but the ghouls were produced by chance. How would that many people come in to contact with FEV which is an extremely secret government experiment? most of the ghouls, from what they say themselves, seem to have been created during or shortly after the war, which if FEV is the cause, would suggest that the government mass-infected people (another conspiracy? FEV's predecessor was originally intended to make people immune to radiation after all).
 
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