global warming - worse than we think?

welsh

Junkmaster
Don't know if you folks have been paying attention to the news about the glaciers melting, rivers running dry, warm spells in the arctic regions, etc.

Apparently global warming is worse than we thought. Better get your sunblock out now.

Global warming is 'twice as bad as previously thought'
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
27 January 2005


Global warming might be twice as catastrophic as previously thought, flooding settlements on the British coast and turning the interior into an unrecognisable tropical landscape, the world's biggest study of climate change shows.

Researchers from some of Britain's leading universities used computer modelling to predict that under the "worst-case" scenario, London would be under water and winters banished to history as average temperatures in the UK soar up to 20C higher than at present.

Globally, average temperatures could reach 11C greater than today, double the rise predicted by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the international body set up to investigate global warming. Such high temperatures would melt most of the polar icecaps and mountain glaciers, raising sea levels by more than 20ft. A report this week in The Independent predicted a 2C temperature rise would lead to irreversible changes in the climate.

The new study, in the journal Nature, was done using the spare computing time of 95,000 people from 150 countries who downloaded from the internet the global climate model of the Met Office's Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research. The program, run as a screensaver, simulated what would happen if carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere were double those of the 18th century, before the Industrial Revolution, the situation predicted by the middle of this century.

David Stainforth of Oxford University, the chief scientist of the latest study, said processing the results showed the Earth's climate is far more sensitive to increases in man-made greenhouse gases than previously realised. The findings indicate a doubling of carbon dioxide from the pre-industrial level of 280 parts per million would increase global average temperatures by between 2C and 11C.

Mr Stainforth said: "An 11C-warmed world would be a dramatically different world... There would be large areas at higher latitudes that could be up to 20C warmer than today. The UK would be at the high end of these changes. It is possible that even present levels of greenhouse gases maintained for long periods may lead to dangerous climate change... When you start to look at these temperatures, I get very worried indeed."

Attempts to control global warming, based on the Kyoto treaty, concentrated on stabilising the emissions of greenhouse gases at 1990 levels, but the scientists warned that this might not be enough. Mr Stainforth added: "We need to accept that while greenhouse gas levels can increase we need to limit them, level them off then bring them back down again."

Professor Bob Spicer, of the Open University, said average global temperature rises of 11C are unprecedented in the long geological record of the Earth. "If we go back to the Cretaceous, which is 100 million years ago, the best estimates of the global mean temperature was about 6C higher than present," Professor Spicer said. "So 11C is quite substantial and if this is right we would be going into a realm that we really don't have much evidence for even in the rock [geological] record."

Myles Allen, of Oxford University, said: "The danger zone is not something we're going to reach in the middle of the century; we're in it now." Each of the hottest 15 years on record have been since 1980.

Interested in what the EPA has to say? http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/content/index.html
Sierra Club?
http://www.climatehotmap.org/

ANd National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration-
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

For an update on global warming in the artic-
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4167590
 
Great - if Peak Oil doesn't get us, global warming will. Goodbye Earth, it was nice knowing you.
 
More news, according to this we are reaching the point of no return.

Bummer.

Note the point about the risk of the human race to survive.

Global Warming Approaching Point of No Return, Warns Leading Climate Expert
By Geoffrey Lean
The Independent on Sunday U.K.

Sunday 23 January 2005

Global warning has already hit the danger point that international attempts to curb it are designed to avoid, according to the world's top climate watchdog.

Dr. Rajendra Pachauri, the chairman of the official Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), told an international conference attended by 114 governments in Mauritius this month that he personally believes that the world has "already reached the level of dangerous concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere" and called for immediate and "very deep" cuts in the pollution if humanity is to "survive".

His comments rocked the Bush administration - which immediately tried to slap him down - not least because it put him in his post after Exxon, the major oil company most opposed to international action on global warming, complained that his predecessor was too "aggressive" on the issue.

A memorandum from Exxon to the White House in early 2001 specifically asked it to get the previous chairman, Dr. Robert Watson, the chief scientist of the World Bank, "replaced at the request of the US". The Bush administration then lobbied other countries in favour of Dr. Pachauri - whom the former vice-president Al Gore called the "let's drag our feet" candidate, and got him elected to replace Dr. Watson, a British-born naturalised American, who had repeatedly called for urgent action.

But this month, at a conference of Small Island Developing States on the Indian Ocean island, the new chairman, a former head of India's Tata Energy Research Institute, himself issued what top United Nations officials described as a "very courageous" challenge.

He told delegates: "Climate change is for real. We have just a small window of opportunity and it is closing rather rapidly. There is not a moment to lose."

Afterwards he told The Independent on Sunday that widespread dying of coral reefs, and rapid melting of ice in the Arctic, had driven him to the conclusion that the danger point the IPCC had been set up to avoid had already been reached.

Reefs throughout the world are perishing as the seas warm up: as water temperatures rise, they lose their colours and turn a ghostly white. Partly as a result, up to a quarter of the world's corals have been destroyed.

And in November, a multi-year study by 300 scientists concluded that the Arctic was warming twice as fast as the rest of the world and that its ice-cap had shrunk by up to 20 per cent in the past three decades.

The ice is also 40 per cent thinner than it was in the 1970s and is expected to disappear altogether by 2070. And while Dr. Pachauri was speaking parts of the Arctic were having a January "heatwave", with temperatures eight to nine degrees centigrade higher than normal.

He also cited alarming measurements, first reported in The Independent on Sunday, showing that levels of carbon dioxide (the main cause of global warming) have leapt abruptly over the past two years, suggesting that climate change may be accelerating out of control.

He added that, because of inertia built into the Earth's natural systems, the world was now only experiencing the result of pollution emitted in the 1960s, and much greater effects would occur as the increased pollution of later decades worked its way through. He concluded: "We are risking the ability of the human race to survive."


But wait! It's not all that bad. If you trust Crichton-
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4273774

Which I hear is an awful book.

Oh and the science in the book?
http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/politics/10750944.htm
 
While I appreciate the gravity of the situation, I personally have nothing to lose from Global Warming, aside from increased drought in my province during the summer months.

The sad fact is, nothing short of a “limited scale nuclear war” is going to stop the world from polluting more and more each year.
 
Hahahahaha!

Yeah, nevermind the fallout, here's a mini nuclear war to prevent pollution!

Also, today, first time in fifty years, as a huge cold wave sweeps through Europe, burying everything in snow, it snowed in Algeria.

'Global Warming' Indeed.
 
Chriton I trust more then anyone who has ever proposed anything regarding Global Warming besides Bjørn Lomborg. They are generally on the scientific level of Creationists.
 
Wooz-

If I recall, global warming isn't about there being constantly warmer weather, but that weather becomes more unpredictable and more extreme. Colder during winter, warmer during summer.

As I recall, the ice ages began during warmer trends, that made the glaciers move faster.

And CCR- why would you trust Crichton more than a scientist- even he says global warming is occuring.
 
I tried to bring this issue up once before. Thank you so much Welsh maybe now people will listen.

First some real world evidence for those that think scientists are crackpots:

The past three winters in my area have been first the snowiest in decades, then the coldest in decades, then the current one is the warmest in decades. Also right along with the amazing warming trend this year the West Coast opposite the East Coast where I am has been getting heavy unpredictable precipitation. Now I moved here from Los Angeles. A bad winter was one with more rain than usual...it was never really cold. Basically while here in the east its excessively warm its at the same time excessively more winterlike in the west. A switching and intensifying of the opposite conditions.

As for scientists...when I lived in Los Angeles I lived in a split-area of the middle class and upper class. One of my friends was rich and had a father with a Phd. Though I dont remember the field...I often talked to him about science since I plan to go into the field. It turns out he got sent under payment of the US gov. to meet an international team of scientists for weather study. I once heard about that meeting...in the news! So this guy was supremely intelligent and important. I onced asked him about the subject of global warming. He said "I know its going on and Im not sure if it can even be stopped at this point." That was back in 1999!

So Ive had close encounters on the subject. Dude unless your a rat or a cockroach your f***in doomed.

...,
The Vault Dweller
 
Global warming is occuring... As I said in the other thread TVD is referring to, the weather here is becoming pretty damn erratic. I'll chime in later with more stuff, I'm eating food right now and blowing things up. - Colt
 
In Crichton's latest book (State of Fear) he gives us a slew of evidence against global warming really happening - While at the same time he's accusing the pro-global-warming people of bias.
 
Bah, too addicting... If it's the same Crichton, I've just read some of his SF stuff which was pretty good... But if this isn't global warming, what IS causing the erratic weather pray tell?
 
Crichton is full of shit. I can't believe people choose to believe a sci-fi writer rather than world's top environmental scientists. Face it people, global warming is happening, its effects are already plainly obvious, and in the future it will likely lead to environmental disasters on global scale.

If humanity survives past 2050, I will be thoroughly impressed.
 
It's not like every city in the world is on the coast just waiting to be flooded. The Earth would have to explode for it to be cured of the humanity infestation.
 
The problem isn't in cities being flooded, the problem is in people from those cities wanting to relocate elsewhere regardless of whether or not someone already occupies their would-be new habitat.
 
And even that wouldn`t be ernough, the human parasites would stil swarm the remains.

As long as no new ice-age appears or the Gulf-stream vanishes i do not realy care about climate-changes.
Maybe in fifty years i wont have to travel to distant countrys to se beaches surrounde by palmtreas, or to experience subtropical temperatures.
And since my house is 10 meters above sea level, the beach will maybe be even closer. 8)

And you do know that a (small) part of the climate changing could be natural?

Oh and this is a funny link to this theme:
http://www.envirotruth.org/GlobalWarming.cfm
Note that this is not my opinion, and please note who is the sponsor.
 
Well that all would be fine, except scientists really don't know what global warming could do. Remember that the environment is a complex system in which changes in some element can lead to significant changes elsewhere.

For example, water heats up, corals bleach and reefs and water vegetation begins to die, leading to starvation of fishing, leading to starvation of those people who rely on fishing.

Warmer summers might mean less rain and more desertification of agricultural areas. Remember the Sahara wasn't always a desert but was once a grassland much like the US middle west. But let's say areas we traditionally consider the "bread baskets"- parts of Asia and North America, suddenly dry up and become desert.

As for sea rises, remember that much of the earth's population lives near the ocean, near sea level.
 
I know, and in fact one of the effects of climate changes could be the gulf-stream disappearing,
which would make living in the northern part of Europe really suck.
Funny thing is that many things that cause global-warming can be avoided, as for example by cars running on Hydrogen, instead of fuel.
In fact many things have already been done in the western world, but of course poorer countries can not afford newer machines that cause less pollution, and all in all do not care that much about the environment, since they have bigger problems than that.
On the other hand pollution could be reduced too, by certain people accepting Kyoto Protocol.

edit:spelling
 
The_Vault_Dweller said:
The past three winters in my area have been first the snowiest in decades, then the coldest in decades, then the current one is the warmest in decades.

Winter has been mild here, just like the past 3 years. But then again, I haven't lived here long enough to know if this is unusual compared to the long term. Summer 2004, however, oh man. It rained, and rained, and rained. Calgary is in an Arid climate and we got more rain than the coast during summer! :shock:

So yeah, the weather where I live during the summer was very unusual, but I'm not sure if this is due to global warming or not.

Turnip said:
Funny thing is that many things that cause global-warming can be avoided, as for example by cars running on Hydrogen, instead of fuel.

The only solution to the problem of pollution will be a car that doesn't run on fossil fuel. I just can't see ANYTHING else that wouldn't completely devastate the economy putting anything more than a scratch in pollution.

Turnip said:
On the other hand pollution could be reduced too, by certain people accepting Kyoto Protocol.

As long as the USA refuses to be a part of it, it's useless.
 
Climate change cannot be predicted or observed over a period of three years. Thirty years, perhaps, but in order to get statistically reliable data you need to observe change over a period of at least 100 years.

So the snowy, wet, mild, dry and 'strange' weather all of us may or may not have been observing in the past few years means nothing to a climatologist. If you want to argue that climate change is occuring you need to use a longer-term source.
 
Calculon00 wrote:
The only solution to the problem of pollution will be a car that doesn't run on fossil fuel. I just can't see ANYTHING else that wouldn't completely devastate the economy putting anything more than a scratch in pollution.

A hydrogen-driven car is very close to this solution, since hydrogen can be separated from oxygen using solar energy.
Because water is a nearly unlimited recourse, as sunlight is ,no fossil resources are needed for driving these cars.
The only problem that exists is that one might use more energy by creating the solar-cells and transport the energy (obviously created in desserts) than one is actually earning.
But the technique exists, and is theoretically absolute pollution free.

Calculon00 wrote:
As long as the USA refuses to be a part of it, it's useless.
Edit: Yup
 
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