Gun Control

Sigh, I know most will not read this but hey its worth throwing out there.

https://thebigsmoke.com.au/2019/03/20/should-we-be-virtuous-about-our-gun-law-changes/

Should we be so virtuous about our gun law changes?
March 20, 2019
Dr Samara McPhedran

The individual who enabled Christchurch was raised in a community that spoke proudly of its stand against guns. However, in turning the same instruments on another, he may have illustrated a flaw in the national assumption.

t is impossible to comprehend how a person could enter a place of worship and slaughter innocent people who were simply expressing their faith, as we have just seen in Christchurch. But we can answer part of the “why”. A common thread runs through many recent mass shootings: the perpetrators are fame seekers whose acts are deliberately designed to turn them into celebrities.

Whether they are seeking celebrity status for purely narcissistic purposes, or to promote extreme ideologies and become martyrs to political causes, they seek to “outdo” each other in the number of deaths they cause. More fatalities mean bigger headlines and greater infamy. Murder has become a ticket to having your name and face splashed around the world for days, weeks, even years, giving the cowardly and pathetic perpetrators a status and recognition they could never obtain in any other way.

Increasingly, killers “stage manage” their atrocities. They use social media and new technologies to send their message out under their own terms, and they show chillingly accurate insight into how easily traditional media can be manipulated into giving them the sustained attention they crave.

From his unthinkable livestream to his grubby “manifesto” (both of which are deliberately not linked), the perpetrator of the Christchurch atrocity does not just fit this pattern. He has owned it. Horrifyingly, he openly declared that he deliberately selected peaceful and remote New Zealand as his target and chose to use guns rather than any other methods because he believed the combination of those two things would give him maximum publicity for his vicious and bigoted views.

The Christchurch shooter is Australian. Some opportunists have callously used this to push their views about Australian gun laws and snidely “tut tut” New Zealand for having a different approach. But the reality is that the shooter chose both his geography and method for a clear purpose. He knew exactly what he wanted to achieve, and how to achieve it.

Worst of all, he was right.

There is also something new in his hate-filled ramblings. He talks about choosing guns specifically to provoke conflict over gun laws, and foster further division and polarisation in society. We have not seen this type of sentiment before, and it raises a deeply disturbing possibility. It suggests murderers have now learned that—unlike other methods such as a truck or bomb—the use of guns provokes an immediate political reaction, arguably more so than any other feature of an incident does. This is happening right now in New Zealand, with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern committing to immediate gun law changes.

Here in Australia, all jurisdictions signed up to sweeping—and to this day contentious—changes to gun laws just twelve days after the Port Arthur massacre. Over two decades later, we still wheel then-Prime Minister John Howard out and nod approvingly when he talks about making a virtually instant decision to ban guns, which all state and territory governments fell in behind. Commentators continue, on a regular basis, to speak in glowing terms about how the killings prompted massive, immediate government reaction on an unprecedented scale.

But what if the way we talk about the Australian experience has had a terrible outcome we could not have foreseen? What if we are the country who taught the Christchurch shooter the most about the “status” that gun massacres can confer on perpetrators?

Ever since Port Arthur, the way Australians have talked about how quickly our current laws happened has sent the unspoken message that when somebody commits a massacre using guns, they will also make governments dance to their tune.

This is not about perpetrators having any particular beliefs on gun laws. It is about them wanting to show the world that they can directly manipulate the people who govern our society—the “powerful, important people”. It is only too easy to see how being able to control government action in this way could increase a shooter’s fantasies of grandeur, and give them a sense of influence they could never have hoped to attain otherwise. And, of course, it further fuels their publicity wagon.

Australia has fallen into the disconcerting habit of equating immediate decisions with good leadership as if policymaking was a race to be won. Not only do we heap praise on officials who act instantaneously, but those who may wish to pause, reflect, look at facts, and work through issues methodically and carefully are condemned as “giving in” to lobby groups. We then wonder why Australian politics has become a game of point-scoring rather than measured discussion.

Reacting has been turned into a virtue, and thinking into a vice. We have never stopped to contemplate that the pressures we place on politicians after a crime, the actions they receive approbation for, and the way we talk about gun laws, may be having dangerous unintended consequences.

This does not mean that our political leaders should not take any action in the face of barbarity. Far from it. However, caution dictates that we need to much more wisely consider the timing of that action.

As our dear friends across the Tasman mourn, now is Australia’s moment to start examining what role our long-running rhetoric around ‘swift action’ may play in fuelling narcissistic, murderous intent.

Dr Samara McPhedran
Dr Samara McPhedran holds a PhD in Psychology and has published extensive research examining Australian and international firearm policy and gun violence. She does not work for, consult to, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that might benefit from this article. Dr McPhedran has been appointed to a number of firearms advisory panels and committees, most recently as a member of the Queensland Ministerial Advisory Panel on Firearms, and as a previous member of the Commonwealth Firearms Advisory Council. She does not receive any financial remuneration or other rewards for these activities. She has held past memberships with/volunteered for a range of not-for-profit firearm-related organisations and women's advocacy groups. She is not a member of any political party. The views expressed in this article are those of the author alone.
 
Crni

Yes, America is so like Mad Max right now. I mean we have virtually no law and order and we just kill each other in the thousands everyday, much like a Tarantino movie.
 
Crni

Yes, America is so like Mad Max right now. I mean we have virtually no law and order and we just kill each other in the thousands everyday, much like a Tarantino movie.
You'd think he would relish the idea of living in a free for all considering his political leanings but then again, he also thinks the common man shouldn't be allowed to protect themselves, only the rich and powerful should have that privilege. I'd take it he views himself to be The Lord Humongous in such a situation.
 

Virtue Signalling: Everyone's favorite "you're dishonest because I say so" button.

Pretty tasty to complain about people manipulating that event in their favor and saying "he was right" in the same piece though :ok:
 
Crni

Yes, America is so like Mad Max right now. I mean we have virtually no law and order and we just kill each other in the thousands everyday, much like a Tarantino movie.
Actually ... you do:

Nearly 40,000 People Died From Guns in U.S. Last Year, Highest in 50 Years

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/us/gun-deaths.html



Let us be serious here, I was of course sarcastic. But actually, you do kill each other daily. Viollence is a huge issue in the United States, of which some involves guns. There is a high death toll in the US. Higher compared to many other countires, yes even if we go per capita.

The level of gun violence in the United States is completely outsized compared to what's seen in other wealthy countries. In fact, the rate of gun violence in the U.S. is higher than in many low-income countries.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...w-the-u-s-compares-with-the-rest-of-the-world
 
TheGM said:
You'd think he would relish the idea of living in a free for all considering his political leanings but then again, he also thinks the common man shouldn't be allowed to protect themselves, only the rich and powerful should have that privilege

Even though it sounds like it, no. People are free to do what they want only if the government deems it appropriate. The government actually removes freedom as it makes the choice for you.

Crni Vuk said:
Nearly 40,000 People Died From Guns in U.S. Last Year, Highest in 50 Years

Yea, it is a price you pay for gun ownership. America, unlike our euro brothers, doesn't cower in fear and let the state run rampant just because some psycho hurts people.

TBH, on average, America is actually way better in regards to violence compared to Europe. I mean, we had ONE civil war compared to how many over there? America didn't start world wars unlike you Europeans. At the end of the day, you folks have us beat in the sheer numbers of deaths caused by over reliance on government. So do not speak to us about our mentality and problems with 'violence'.

Maybe it is because you Europeans have mass murdered each other for 1000 years, I don't know. Maybe it is something in the water. You folks have resigned yourselves to let the government handle everything and do the thinking for you. Whatever floats your boat.
 
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Even though it sounds like it, no. People are free to do what they want only if the government deems it appropriate. The government actually removes freedom as it makes the choice for you.
Well your rights and freedom goes as far as others are willing to fight for yours if you fight for theirs. The US government generally has their hand tied over doing things most of the time, and when they get caught doing sneaky sneaks nobody is punished. Step out of the country though and they will drone you without hesitation. The Average Americans interest of what goes on out side this country ends at the shoreline.

Still don't know what any of that has to do with an anarcho-communist thinking only the bourgeoisie should have access to guns.
 
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Yea, it is a price you pay for gun ownership. America, unlike our euro brothers, doesn't cower in fear and let the state run rampant just because some psycho hurts people.
This is about how societies deal with certain issues. I never said America is better OR worse than Europe. We have all our problems. The question isn't what ever who's better, Europe or the US, but if you're comitted on improving on issues, be it corruption, viollence, crimes, drug abbuse you name it. And I feel people that often tell you, dun listen to those Eurotards! Are rather keen on DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING! As the current situation, benefits them. There are interest groups for nearly every shit out there these days. Changes however, are part of any society. What ever if we want it or not. The situatio you experience in the US right now, didn't happen over night so any solution won't come over night either. Who knows? Maybe we do already see changes happening. We have to wait and see I guess. 60 years ago someone would have argued against homosexuality in fear that it's destroying family values and they would of course find reasons to speak against it. Today, homosexual couples can have a legal marriage and that's a good thing. In 50 or 60 years the US certainly will be a very different society compared to what it is now, will it be better or worse? I guess that depends on who you ask.

TBH, on average, America is actually way better in regards to violence compared to Europe. I mean, we had ONE civil war compared to how many over there? America didn't start world wars unlike you Europeans. At the end of the day, you folks have us beat in the sheer numbers of deaths caused by over reliance on government. So do not speak to us about our mentality and problems with 'violence'.

Maybe it is because you Europeans have mass murdered each other for 1000 years, I don't know. Maybe it is something in the water. You folks have resigned yourselves to let the government handle everything and do the thinking for you. Whatever floats your boat.
Please, this "MY CRIMEPENIS IS SMALLER THAN YOURS!" conversation again? I have enough of those kind of discusions, they are childish, stupid and revisionist. You would be surprised how often we have those here in Europe as well, those kind of discussions where some call Russia evil for all the shit they did in WW2 and they call the Germans Nazis for all the crimes and so on. It's stupid. It's silly. It serves no purpose nor does it help in finding solutions.

Humans can be terrible to each other and that's it. Americans are not better or worse compared to others.
 
Virtue Signalling: Everyone's favorite "you're dishonest because I say so" button.

Pretty tasty to complain about people manipulating that event in their favor and saying "he was right" in the same piece though :ok:

Ahhh you must think that as the person much smarter than you, from a country with what you would call fine gun contro,l and is extensively researched in international firearm laws says that kneejerk emotional legislation is bad legislation is virtue signaling? Or are you just butt hurt that a person with education and experience disagrees with you? Good job contradicting it, or you know having anything useful to say.
 
The piece is *about* virtue signaling though, I'm not saying that it is, even if we can argue that it may be.
 
Crni

Thing is, almost every single post you make states how much things would be better if we adopt your way of doing things.

Also, on the crimepenis thing.

Your the one who brought up violence. Your the one who made a comparison between how violent our society is and how it IS like Mad Max. I am just pointing out how wrong you are, that is all.

TheGM said:
Still don't know what any of that has to do with an anarcho-communist thinking

You stated that you thought Crni would be about LESS government control because of his pro freedom stance. That is freedom that the government GIVES. I was merely pointing out that socialism usually means MORE government control, not less.
 
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The piece is *about* virtue signaling though, I'm not saying that it is, even if we can argue that it may be.

Yes saying that virtue signaling legislation is bad right? That maybe making laws in under 2 weeks is a really bad idea (or under a week in NZ)? I am not saying that the laws would have been different (although I suspect they may have been with some sober thought behind them) but in the end all legislation should be thought out with great respect for how this affects everyone.
 
Crni

Thing is, almost every single post you make states how much things would be better if we adopt your way of doing things.
Where did I say that? I am just simply for less extremist approaches. Did I ever say, TAKE ALL GUNS FROM AMERIANZ! Seriously, you're projecting here. I am not for stronger gun laws in the US or that everyone should follow my approach or think like I do. I just propose that you find ways to change your gun culture away from what it is now, that you drop this paranoia and making a fetish out of guns. I mean you don't let 5 year olds drive cars, but in some states it's perfectly fine to let them hold a weapon. It's this kind of stuff that I find disturbing. And apparantly even a lot of Gun-loving owners think there is something fundamentally wrong with the culture around guns and viollence, which needs to be adressed:



The point is, you can't really start fixing issues when a very vocal group doesn't even accept that there is an issue in the first place.

Your the one who brought up violence.

As a response to your "THERE IS (almost) NO VIOLLENCE!" (hyperbole). No reason to crank it up to eleven with talking about genocides, civil wars and the like. Again, the topic here is not about which nation has killed the most people or what ever.
 
You stated that you thought Crni would be about LESS government control because of his pro freedom stance.
No, I stated that claiming to be a commie-anarchist who thinks only the rich and powerful should have guns is very silly. Sounds like a very hypocritical platform.
 
Crni Vuk said:
Where did I say that?

Crni Vuk said:
But I am very glad that we have in Germany and I think most of Europe a very responsible and level headed gun culture and most of our weapon-fanatics seem to be more on the reasonable side of the spectrum

This was on page 23 but I remember more along the same lines, in this thread and on others. You have a general feeling that your governments stance, and in Europe in general, is much better and safer. You have also wondered why the U.S. doesn't go this route.

Crni Vuk said:
TAKE ALL GUNS FROM AMERIANZ!

Never said you said this.

Crni Vuk said:
As a response to your "THERE IS (almost) NO VIOLLENCE!" (hyperbole)

I NEVER said there was no violence in the U.S. However, YOU upped the level to 11 and compared our situation to a dystopian, post nuclear, lawless society.

Seriously, just own up to your shit.

Crni Vuk said:
Again, the topic here is not about which nation has killed the most people or what ever

Crni Vuk said:
Maybe the US government, should hand out kevlar school bags to all students.

Crni Vuk said:
Sometimes I can't loose the feeling that the american version of a paradise are the Mad Max movies ..

Your Mad Max comment implied that we are culturally pre-disposed to violence or at the very least, more violent.
 
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It's very difficult sometimes, but I hoped that you got the 'sarcsm' in some of those statements, I will make sure from now on that I will put a *sarcasm* around it the next time, instead of actually thinking that I made serious arguments here. However ... you actually can get kevlar bagpacks in the US ... and you have gun detectors in some schools ... and many other weird stuff, that I have never seen in Germany - at least as far as school shootings goes. That stuff is crazy and you would expect that in a warzone really!

The point I wanted to make is, that you're society has changed, a lot and to outsiders those changes seem very crazy, for people like you they might seem normal, probably because you also grew up with them or maybe you do not see them as an issue.

This was on page 23 but I remember more along the same lines, in this thread and on others. You have a general feeling that your governments stance, and in Europe in general, is much better and safer. You have also wondered why the U.S. doesn't go this route.
You mean, having a more educated, level headed and less extremist approach around weapons is bad thing? Oh well ... I thought that's simply common sense really.

I would say we have a missunderstanding here. What I am talking about, is to not make an unhealthy fetish out of guns not that you can not enjoy or have a lot fun with weapons, we have this guy here in Germany who shows and builds slingshots on Youtube, he also loves and owns guns. But he's not making a 'fetish' out of them. He explains here, what I think works better compared to the US:



What I am talking about, are the kind of situations where a child can shoot a fully automatic weapon and accidently kill the instructor. This is the kind of stuff an excessive gun culture leads too. Young children beeing exposed to weapons in a manner that makes you cringe and look like they are just another toy or comoddity. I always thought gun ownership was also about responsibility and safety.

Many areas in Europe, like Switzerland - which is often named by the NRA-suppoerters as a GOOD gun country, have a long tradition around fire arms, you know. There can be healthy realtionships with fire arms and a good use of them in sports and just shooting for fun. And I support that. What I do not support, is to use weapons as some sort of replacement for something, like a lack of self-esteem.
 
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Mad Max looks like the Sesame Street compared to the MassPike during rush hour.

Mad Max + Boston region = red headed weird leprachaun-style character.
Corpus3.jpg
 
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