Hey guys! We got mentioned in a Nuka World review!

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

On Twitter my fans sent me a few PMs about NMA when I mentioned I was posting here.

I responded "They're a nice enough bunch once you get past their hate of Bethesda--and I know what it is to hate a gaming company (see Thief and Eidos)."

Saw your tweet about NW podcast, "I liked it, they didn't".

But the hate of Bethesda is well deserved- you can fill in all the plot holes with headcanon, but it won't fix poor gameplay, optimization, AI, writing, worldbuilding, and- dare I say it- graphics. It's not just about lore inconsistencies- it's the fact that people don't mind they're being sold a half broken product. I wish I had gotten a new mic for the podcast, because I could've added that I had to use console commands to reach the DLC- without mods.

 

[CT Phipps]

Saw your tweet about NW podcast, "I liked it, they didn't".

But the hate of Bethesda is well deserved- you can fill in all the plot holes with headcanon, but it won't fix poor gameplay, optimization, AI, writing, worldbuilding, and- dare I say it- graphics. It's not just about lore inconsistencies- it's the fact that people don't mind they're being sold a half broken product. I wish I had gotten a new mic for the podcast, because I could've added that I had to use console commands to reach the DLC- without mods.

I enjoyed Fallout 4 and LOVED Fallout 3 but I also note the dislike of Bethesda here is also about treatment of modders as well as their intellectual property (legally or not) which cools any enthusiasm I have for them as a company much more so than their treatment of the Fallout franchise.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

I enjoyed Fallout 4 and LOVED Fallout 3 but I also note the dislike of Bethesda here is also about treatment of modders as well as their intellectual property (legally or not) which cools any enthusiasm I have for them as a company much more so than their treatment of the Fallout franchise.

Yeah there's that as well. The paid mods fiasco, Autumn Leaves, Interplay's MMO rights etc. They're just as bad as other big game companies, but it's not "cool" to hate on Bethesda like it is with EA/Ubisoft.

 

[CT Phipps]

I do draw a distinction between the underpaid programmer, designer, and frequently abused project heads. Corporations are like governments and in the words of Shepard Book, "A government is a collection of people."

Bethesda has good, bad, and indifferent members I'm sure in its project section. Video game programmers have also included many a horror story about working on any Triple A franchise.

I will say, though, I will defend Nuka World to my dying breath. Also Far Harbor. But Fallout 4 strikes me as a game made for people who had very different ideas from what I wanted from Fallout. Yet, I still had a lot of fun playing it.

I'm not here to troll NMA, just share my opinion.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

I'm not here to troll NMA, just share my opinion.

I like having someone to debate with, it's good fun.

But damn out of everything you could defend to your dying breath, why Nuka World?

 

[CT Phipps]

I like having someone to debate with, it's good fun.

But damn out of everything you could defend to your dying breath, why Nuka World?

The serious reason?

I play Fallout to explore. Nuka World, unlike the main game, is a place actually worth exploring with lots of interesting set pieces, bits of lore to find, and unique locations. Fallout 4 is mostly a gigantic swamp with a handful of interesting locations to visit versus a relatively huge map of copy-pasted settlements of which two or three are semi-memorable. After a game where there's very little worth wandering around to look at, save the Glowing Sea, this is a beautiful aversion with five lands of wonderful buildings full of stuff to look at.

To a lesser extent, I love Disneyworld and Coca Cola in RL even though i know they're corporations designed to manufacture fake happiness.

I also love being a Raider.

 

[Brivoo]

The thing about Bethesda hate here is that it's been going on for so long, a lot of users get lost in the hyperbole. They'll declare Bethesda the final harbinger of the end days so many times that their exaggerations outnumber their level-headed arguments, and new or prospective users get the wrong impression.

Generally, the criticisms are deserved, if sometimes a bit harsh. You just have to take it all with a grain of salt.

I do draw a distinction between the underpaid programmer, designer, and frequently abused project heads. Corporations are like governments and in the words of Shepard Book, "A government is a collection of people."

I can sympathize with the basic programmer and animator, who are just trying to make a living; I do hold it against the 'creative directors' and producers, who have the benefit of seeing the whole picture and still make the conscious decision to make the game worse.

But damn out of everything you could defend to your dying breath, why Nuka World?

Nuka World was okay from a fresh perspective and dog-shaggingly retarded as a legacy to the other games. It had the same appeal Skyirm had for me; it's so packed with little spaces and secrets that you can just ignore the main quest and do your own thing and still enjoy yourself quite a bit. Its size also means it benefits from not having the problem TES V had, which was the endlessly copy-pasted dungeons.

As a DLC on its own, I'd probably give it a 6 or, at a push, a 7.

As a Fallout DLC, it may not even qualify as a 4.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

I also love being an errand boy for Symmetra, siblings-in-crime cliche and Tribal McTribalface.

Fixed it for you.

As a DLC on its own, I'd probably give it a 6 or, at a push, a 7.

As a Fallout DLC, it may not even qualify as a 4.

But it is a DLC for a Fallout game. You should be grading it for what it is. And it is a Fallout DLC. I'm not trying to come off as a dickhead, I honestly thought it was one of the better F3/F4 DLCs (like that's an achievement), and would also give it a 4/10.

 

[Brivoo]

But it is a DLC for a Fallout game. You should be grading it for what it is. And it is a Fallout DLC. I'm not trying to come off as a dickhead, I honestly thought it was one of the better F3/F4 DLCs (like that's an achievement), and would also give it a 4/10.

I know, but I just enjoy Fallout 3 and 4 a lot more if I keep them mentally separate from the original franchise and New Vegas.

I'm aware it's a fallacy, but I'd rather enjoy myself with a game I only consider dumb rather than torture myself with one I consider abysmal.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

I'm aware it's a fallacy, but I'd rather enjoy myself with a game I only consider dumb rather than torture myself with one I consider abysmal.

You're lucky lol
I can't. Fallout 4 I can play because it passes as a game, but F3 was broken on release and the gameplay, optimization is poor and it suffers from a generic story coming straight from a melting pot with "Fallout themed stuff." Some of my gripes can be applied to NV, but it was saved by a strong story with memorable characters and true grey choices- not 'nuke a town for shits and giggles or... don't'

 

[Brivoo]

You're lucky lol
I can't. Fallout 4 I can play because it passes as a game, but F3 was broken on release and the gameplay, optimization is poor and it suffers from a generic story coming straight from a melting pot with "Fallout themed stuff." Some of my gripes can be applied to NV, but it was saved by a strong story with memorable characters and true grey choices- not 'nuke a town for shits and giggles or... don't'

"Remember when we forced you to join The BoS? Well, now you can fucking blast them to hell with an orbital cannon!"

"... But why would I?"

"GOD, YOU'RE JUST NEVER SATISFIED, ARE YOU?"

I enjoyed Fallout 3 more than 4. I know "atmosphere" is a nonargument a lot of people make to defend it, but I'm also the kind of person who really liked the metro tunnels, so I guess I'm mental.

Fallout 3 had some decent quests to it and some solid DLCs. Fallout 4's gameplay is incredibly generic with a bunch of features watered down from other games or even mods and insults the player by pretending it has choices.

And, although it's not a merit of its own, Fallout 3 has some amazing mods.

 

[Jogre]

On Twitter my fans sent me a few PMs about NMA when I mentioned I was posting here.

I responded "They're a nice enough bunch once you get past their hate of Bethesda--and I know what it is to hate a gaming company (see Thief and Eidos)."

Thanks for putting a good word out for us.

I hope one day people come to realize that we aren't in fact stuck ups who whine about first person games, but rather just people with a different point of view.

EDIT: BTW, just so you know, not everyone on here thought you were a troll when you first came here. I'm sure most people were perfectly happy with you expressing an opposing viewpoint, it's just that some people are naturally cautious due to Bethesda fans trying to troll us in the past.

 

[0wing]

How can you be nostalgic and stuck in the past for asking a different and new look on the series, not brand recognition of the same overfucking pestered elements of the setting mixed with overfucking pestered gameplay formula though... Many (even old time) fans, including me, actually wanted to explore new world, to see how far East Coast is in stone age or what dangers are here, not to see all the same shit going on again. Of any one being stuck in the past is the bethesda itself.

 

[CT Phipps]

Fallout 3 had some decent quests to it and some solid DLCs. Fallout 4's gameplay is incredibly generic with a bunch of features watered down from other games or even mods and insults the player by pretending it has choices.

I think Fallout 3 works very well as an exploration game as a shooter. It's not a great RPG in terms of deep meaningful character development but I don't think it's terrible either. I also felt if you were invested in being the Savior of the Wastelands like Bethesda wanted you to be and saving the BOS then it was a really great and satisfying experience.

I think Fallout 4 didn't have the same level of exploration or investment. If you sided with the Institute or Brotherhood, there was no similar level of epic accomplishment.

 

[Chaito]

I think Fallout 3 works very well as an exploration game as a shooter. It's not a great RPG in terms of deep meaningful character development but I don't think it's terrible either. I also felt if you were invested in being the Savior of the Wastelands like Bethesda wanted you to be and saving the BOS then it was a really great and satisfying experience.

I think Fallout 4 didn't have the same level of exploration or investment. If you sided with the Institute or Brotherhood, there was no similar level of epic accomplishment.

I aggree with the comparisson...

But I have to argue in: not that satisfying at all if you are straightforwarded to it.

The only choice you have is at the deep end and REALLY meaningless for an RPG player.

But in FO4, is not even NEAR at all. The game feels just empty on story/character/choices aspect. We can aggree or disagree on gameplay, and make a lot of interesting points... but on the world/story/character writing it is just terrible

 

[Brivoo]

I think Fallout 3 works very well as an exploration game as a shooter. It's not a great RPG in terms of deep meaningful character development but I don't think it's terrible either. I also felt if you were invested in being the Savior of the Wastelands like Bethesda wanted you to be and saving the BOS then it was a really great and satisfying experience.

I think Fallout 4 didn't have the same level of exploration or investment. If you sided with the Institute or Brotherhood, there was no similar level of epic accomplishment.

DC was the only place worth exploring, much like Boston is the only interesting part of 4.

I was invested, somewhat, but I wasn't the actual protagonist of Fallout 3. James was the protagonist, and then Sarah. I was just the dimwit that did their errands for them.

 

[CT Phipps]

I agree with the comparisson...

But I have to argue in: not that satisfying at all if you are straightforwarded to it.

The only choice you have is at the deep end and REALLY meaningless for an RPG player.

But in FO4, is not even NEAR at all. The game feels just empty on story/character/choices aspect. We can agree or disagree on gameplay, and make a lot of interesting points... but on the world/story/character writing it is just terrible

I think the Companions actually have a lot more interesting story to the Sole Survivor's quest than the actual quest does. Piper, Cait, Preston, and Nick really form 80% of Fallout 4's appeal. You could wipe out most of the factions and it would still be entertaining just dealing with your oddball party.

I wonder how that would be, doing it more Bioware style.

All of them travel with you at once.

 

[omphaloskepsis]

"
I enjoyed Fallout 3 more than 4. I know "atmosphere" is a nonargument a lot of people make to defend it, but I'm also the kind of person who really liked the metro tunnels, so I guess I'm mental.

Fallout 3 had some decent quests to it and some solid DLCs. Fallout 4's gameplay is incredibly generic with a bunch of features watered down from other games or even mods and insults the player by pretending it has choices.

And, although it's not a merit of its own, Fallout 3 has some amazing mods.

I can't believe I'm saying it, but I liked FO3 more than FO4 too. I think several people have more or less said this, but FO3 was a better theme park, and thus more fun, even if it was unsatisfying in a lot of other ways.

FO4 is disappointing as a theme park and as a walking sim, which is usually where Beth's strengths lie. More than anything else this is where it failed for me. My expectations were already low in terms of being an RPG (though they still fell short there, miraculously), and as a Fallout game.

FWIW--and I know this isn't a popular opinion--I think mods do count at least a little when assessing a game. Not in terms of giving a company a break, but in terms of how fun a game is. When I think back to a game I played, I think about how much fun I had and how invested in the story and world I was. It doesn't matter whether the source of that entertainment was a modder or a company.

There are games that are essentially flawed masterpieces like KotoR 2, which would be unplayable without mods. I end up judging them by the experience I had with the modded version, though I might have an asterisk in my head next to the title.

 

[CourierC-212]

Yeah there's that as well. The paid mods fiasco, Autumn Leaves, Interplay's MMO rights etc. They're just as bad as other big game companies, but it's not "cool" to hate on Bethesda like it is with EA/Ubisoft.

It still boggles my mind that Bethesda never thought someone might notice they ripped off a modders quest in Fallout:NV. Past skyrim it seems like Bethesda and Zenimax are doing everything they can to tank their relationship, and yet they're like Ferris Bueller, where they keep coming out on top somehow. You'd think after plagiarizing a modders work, trying to force through paid mods on skyrim, bringing mods to consoles which subsequently got many of their pc modders harassed and their work stolen not to mention the horrible moderation on Bethesdas new modding site, overpriced dlc for fallout 4, completely fucking with fallout 4 and adding in experimental testing while putting in such low effort that even the lowest common denominator is now shitting on Fallout 4 and its dlc, elder scrolls online fucking with elder scrolls lore, pete hines unleashed on twitter, and making the Fallout Bible Non-Canon they would at least be getting a bit more flak, at least.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

It still boggles my mind that Bethesda never thought someone might notice they ripped off a modders quest in Fallout:NV. Past skyrim it seems like Bethesda and Zenimax are doing everything they can to tank their relationship, and yet they're like Ferris Bueller, where they keep coming out on top somehow. You'd think after plagiarizing a modders work, trying to force through paid mods on skyrim, bringing mods to consoles which subsequently got many of their pc modders harassed and their work stolen not to mention the horrible moderation on Bethesdas new modding site, overpriced dlc for fallout 4, completely fucking with fallout 4 and adding in experimental testing while putting in such low effort that even the lowest common denominator is now shitting on Fallout 4 and its dlc, elder scrolls online fucking with elder scrolls lore, pete hines unleashed on twitter, and making the Fallout Bible Non-Canon they would at least be getting a bit more flak, at least.

Wait for them to make a semi-decent TES6 that adds a dialogue box as if it's a revolutionary feature, then gets amazing praise. Then it will be trendy to say "I stuck with Bethesda" or "Fallout 4 wasn't even bad because this game shows they make good games" or something equally stupid. As it is right now you're a member of the cool kid herd if you say "good game- bad Fallout game" or "4 is good, but New Vegas is best!!!!"