Historical Legion

[CourierAlex]

How bad were they? Did they really just run around raping, killing and slaughtering in every direction while mocking their victims as "degenerates" and forcing people to erase their cultures to join them? I assume they can't have been all that nice given the size of their empire.

 

[outofthegamer]

Are you referring to the Roman Empire?

Yeah... take away the Ballistic fists, Chainsaws, and whatever guns the Legion uses, and you have a pretty close representation of the Roman army.

The citizens of Rome, on the other hand, were pretty nice people. Except that they had sex with young boys and the most popular form of entertainment was to have slaves kill each other. Other than that -- nice people.

 

[Crni Vuk]

How bad were they? Did they really just run around raping, killing and slaughtering in every direction while mocking their victims as "degenerates" and forcing people to erase their cultures to join them? I assume they can't have been all that nice given the size of their empire.

They have not been much better or worse then any other army of that time. So in other words. Yeah. They did all of those things.

 

[Atomkilla]

It is unfair to judge people that lived more than two millennia ago from today's perspective.

Like armies from the past century (and this century, too) are any better.

 

[Tagaziel]

How bad were they? Did they really just run around raping, killing and slaughtering in every direction while mocking their victims as "degenerates" and forcing people to erase their cultures to join them? I assume they can't have been all that nice given the size of their empire.

No, they didn't. They were an incredibly well trained and organized army drawn from free men of the Empire. The Legions were not the sole purpose of every citizen in the Empire, nor its sole beneficiaries.

 

[White Knight]

How bad were they? Did they really just run around raping, killing and slaughtering in every direction while mocking their victims as "degenerates" and forcing people to erase their cultures to join them? I assume they can't have been all that nice given the size of their empire.

Anybody they conquered could join them, but the Roman Army didn't erase their culture. These foreigners would become part of units known as auxiliaries, and at the end of their 25 year service they were granted Roman citizenship, while normal legionaries were granted pieces of land.

 

[Crni Vuk]

How bad were they? Did they really just run around raping, killing and slaughtering in every direction while mocking their victims as "degenerates" and forcing people to erase their cultures to join them? I assume they can't have been all that nice given the size of their empire.

No, they didn't. They were an incredibly well trained and organized army drawn from free men of the Empire. The Legions were not the sole purpose of every citizen in the Empire, nor its sole beneficiaries.

I think no one questions the discipline or training of the Army (even though that changed from time to time).

But the Romans did had a superior feeling compared to other cultures. Be it over the Celts or ancient Greek.

 

[Tagaziel]

They incorporated, rather than eradicated them. Hell, they absorbed the Greeks and their culture, rather than destroying them out of some misguided feeling of superiority.

 

[brfritos]

It is unfair to judge people that lived more than two millennia ago from today's perspective.

Like armies from the past century (and this century, too) are any better.

You don't even need to go two milennia before, until the XVIII century it was common for 8 or 9 year old girls whom belong to the royalty marrie and have sex for performing kingdom's alliances.

I think too is unfair to compare older times with modern's perspective.

[ ]'s

 

[CourierAlex]

To be fair people tended to live -very- short lives back then thanks to a lack of any competent medicine.

 

[Crni Vuk]

They incorporated, rather than eradicated them. Hell, they absorbed the Greeks and their culture, rather than destroying them out of some misguided feeling of superiority.

No arguing about that. But just because they assimilated parts of their culture did not stopped them to make them their slaves. Or feeling superior. The Roman empire also had no trouble to roflstomp any culture if it was of no use to them or even dare to fight (see the Celts we know not much about them today. Not because it was lost but because the Romans decided to build their stuff on top of the Celts).

 

[welsh]

The Legion as depicted in Vegas seem a bit different than the historical one.

As I recall, and feel free to correct me, the Romans actually traced their roots as refugees from Troy, perhaps the last of the Trojans. I think even the Romulus and Remus story stems from the Trojan origins.

But it seems Rome began much like the other Greek city states and expanded.

In Vegas, however, the Legion is really a coalition of tribes under one leader under a war fighting ideology.

Realistically, I am not sure about this. At the time of our game, populations aren't very dense and there is little ability to communicate across vast distances. It would be difficult for the Legion to hold itself together unless, of course, land is not quite so plentiful.

 

[Crni Vuk]

well the legion in the game seems to be more about the personality of Caesar then the "idea" behind it. I have no doubts with his death the Legion will not even last a few months.

 

[Walpknut]

I don't think it would just stop existing after his death. In NV he is kilometers away from from the main Legion Territory, He surely has Heirs to the Power that he trusts apar from the Legate, It owuld probably devolve into something different than what Caesar wanted it to be, b ut for them to disappear so easily, I don't think so.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Well. Yes. But really compare it to a situation as how you had it with Saddam or Hitler for example which had a dictatorship which was very focused on their person and the "cult" around them. In both cases Saddam and Hitler had a "party" with political figures and leaders in the military to support their power. Nothing fancy about that. But here you have a difference to the Soviet Union for example which had more a focus on the communistic party and block. Maybe I am wrong with this but it might be one reason why the Soviet Union was able to hold their empire for that long. Individuals like Stalin or Krushev formed the system somewhat in their way. But once the leader was "out" either by force or natural causes the party would not simply collapse and elect a new leader (more or less I am not that used with all the details of the Soviet leadership). Now with Hitler there was no doubt if some accident or assassination would have killed him already in 1939 the Reich would have collapse financially and politically. Maybe even in a civil war (we never know). The part which I am talking about is the splitting of power. Hitler was a paranoid personality. And he also never really sorted out the line of succession not before he decided to kill him self anyway I have a few historical books which actually address that point in particular regarding the political system in Nazi Germany. Hess (leader of the Nazi Party), Goebbels, Himmler, Goering, the OKH/OKW (military) they all probably would all have tried to assume the role of leadership. It is also important to mention that the will to combat dropped for many units first after Hitlers death in 1945 particularly those men which felt loyal to him despite knowing that it was completely hopeless and there was no reason at all to keep on fighting. It shows how much indoctrination can do to people. Even if Hitler was not inside the Reich directly the administration and leadership was never really the issue. I think one can assume here something similar for the Legion. In some way. The Death of Cesar Salad would sure wake up many disillusioned characters and it would question the situation of who should assume "his" role now. And if Caesar in particular did not arranged his line of succession correctly it might cause a collapse or even a civil war inside the Legion. Which would also not be rare from a historical point of view when we see the Roman Empire for example which has seen a few civil wars and power struggles even with clear succession.

 

[welsh]

I think the future of the Legion really comes down to how close the vaults are in that region.

If you go into NE Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota, you are into the ICBM fields. In the event of nuclear war, that region would be a radiated hell hole. I don't think anything would come out of that. These are also sparsely populated areas. Sure, they might have made vaults out there- lots of cheap real estate, but they are probably too far spread out.

Lets leave the Romans out and think about the American Indians, a decent model here given that Caesar forms the Legion out of assorted tribals, most of who are probably a few generators removed from the vaults.

While the American Indians were probably the world's best light cavalry in the middle of the 19th century, they had only enjoyed horses for about 100 years before. But even so, they never had the discipline and organization to be a significant challenge to US western migration. With few exceptions, the Indian Wars were pretty simple pacification campaigns fought by the US Army to make the routes west safe.

In the modern age, there are no horses and little in the of transportation. Communications are limited at best. While Caesar has an ideology, its all about war and war-fighting ideologies eventually exhaust themselves. Given great distances and sparse populations, it will be hard to keep these communities together. Without much transportation, these folks are kind of stranded and alone.

I doubt that the Legion would last much longer. Exhausted from war, chances are these folks are going to break apart into scattered and fairly autonomous communities- very much like the American Indians before they got horses.

 

[Tommomo]

Another example of Empires falling apart the moment of their leaders death is Macedonia. It fell to infighting and politics virtually the moment Alexander the great died on campaign. It didnt lose all aspects of its strength as some of its newly divided territories remained regional powerhouses for some time however it was never again a united empire. I assume the same would happen here seeing as the Legate is unpopular and as mentioned before such a vast area controlled by people who up until recently were squabbling tribes. I cant see the Legion surviving long after the death of casar.

Also i would think that a second failure at the dam would also effectively end the legion. Caesar might still live however would lose all credibility and in the end have the same outcome as him dying.

Sorry if this sounds pretentious but did anyone else get the impression that the legion was closer to Sparta at its peak than Rome?

From the treatment/training of their children to the millitary fundamentals (Sparta for example shunned certain weapons and tactics for being cowardly and spartan officers were killed for disrespecting orders no matter how succesful the outcome).

 

[Requete]

Celtic culture was wiped out by Anglo Saxon invasion not the Romans, The Britania was still Brithonic at 400 AD, while in 800 AD it was culturaly Germanic nation. Legion is not Spartan they were never that expansionist and treated the women well unlike muslim empire from VII century, replacing the conquered cultures and treating the woman as property all in the name of high ideals. NCR is more like Rome actualy, corrupted expansionist republic who bring the commonwealth, rule of law and security for those wilingly absorbed... or sword to those resisting like Khan raisers. This is the imperialism that lasts even if Tandi or Kimball kicks bucket. There's even cool perk about it in honest haearts. BTW Did anybody managed to rescue caravan members from ambush at the begining? If I shot whitelegs tribals too fast the game crashes.