Holy shit, please tell me this is not true.

Thorgrimm said:
Kharn I never said hitting the infrastructure was any better. If I did please point it out. What I was driving at, and I guess I should have been more specific, is that you don't have to nuke the cities to get a civilization in todays modern world to collapse. Just prevent the delivery of basic foodstuffs and other items to maintain life.
Click to expand...

Ah. Sorry, you're right, I misread.

No argument from me there.

Thorgrimm said:
As an example, could the Netherlands support it's current population on native farming? Probably not.
Click to expand...

Considering defeating the Netherlands requires one well-placed bomb on our system of dams, I hardly think that's relevant :D

Thorgrimm said:
So in summation you do not need to hit the cities, just the transportation nets and set back and watch starvation and disease do your work for you. Is this more humane? Absolutely not, never said it was. So please refrain from putting words in my mouth.
Click to expand...

I never said more humane, I said better, as in more efficient. Don't put words in my mouth :D

You don't think nuking major points of infastructure is actually more efficient than nuking cities, do you? Especially since cities ARE major points of infastructure for surrounding, smaller cities. If Russia had 100 nukes and a grudge, should it bomb cities or infastructure?

Thorgrimm said:
Anybody reading this post, could YOUR nation support your nation with native grown foods and clean water? If not then you just might have a problem if for any reason the infrastructure breaks down.
Click to expand...

:roll:

Our civilization is easy to disrupt through infastructure. If this happens, though, a lot of people will die and the survivors (with some luck) can support themselves off the land. It's not that different from how we started out and it's not shocking that we can't support ourselves through our "original" means, considering how many of us there are

It is neither shocking nor avoidable, considering our desired quality of life and the numerous amounts of people. Pardon me for not standing on my head at this revelation.
 
Kharn, you may find this funny considering our past post relationship, but I do agree with a lot of what you post. :D I just hope for the sake of humanity, whoever thinks that a nuke war is survivable never gets power in ANY nation. As the plain and simple truth is it is not, no matter what you target.



Thorgrimm
 
As does the leadership of the CCP Triple D. The threat is just not the US but ANY nation that begins to think they can survive a nuke war is when the end is in sight.




Thorgrimm
 
Loxley said:
You are aware that so far you are talking about a noneksisting space based defence system, that is designed to defend against terrorist and rogue nations with maximum one or two bombs in their arsenal?
This will MAYBE stop one missile, (last i heard they had a 60% chance of stopping a testmissile that they knew the course an trajectory on)
An all out attack from russia would level the US before the amercan missiles hit.
Click to expand...
No way man...the space based missile defense system is the most effective thing that we could have. Any nuclear missile launched from Russia against the US would have to go into space before hitting the US. The defense system would then fire another nuclear missile at the attacking nuke. It would detonate within a reasonable distance of the attacking nuke, destroying it in space. Any radioactive fallout from that would just burn up in the atmosphere. So its the safest and most effective form of missile defense.

As for the proposed space based laser system...I'm not sure how that works.
 
King of Creation said:
No way man...the space based missile defense system is the most effective thing that we could have. Any nuclear missile launched from Russia against the US would have to go into space before hitting the US. The defense system would then fire another nuclear missile at the attacking nuke. It would detonate within a reasonable distance of the attacking nuke, destroying it in space. Any radioactive fallout from that would just burn up in the atmosphere. So its the safest and most effective form of missile defense.

As for the proposed space based laser system...I'm not sure how that works.
Click to expand...

OK,
- forgetting that the idea of a space based defense system is still a dream (and neglecting that the US can't evacuate New Orleans three days before a big storm, no less build the Death Star)- and
-ignoring damage that such nuclear counter strike you are going to ruin your C3I, and
- the current administration can't figure out the laser thing either,

You flaw begins with the assumption that an attack would have to be by ICBM.

In fact, the nuclear triad was based on ICBM, SLBMS and Bombers, but to that we can add Cruise Missile systems as well (sea launched, ground launched or air launched).

Return to the basic calculation- measure the benefits of such a war against the greatest possible damage mutiplied by the likelihood of retaliation.

The question remains- how many nuclear hits can the US take? How many are you willing to risk? For what gains?

Which is Thorgrimm's basic point- to play the risks of nuclear war (especially major powers) is an act of insanity.
 
If KoC's delusional mentality (that nuclear exchange is a relatively harmless and acceptable means of resolving an armed conflict, resulting only in localized devastation and leaving America and its way of life intact) is representative of the entire American public, then I fear USA has already been struck by the most devastating WMDs imaginable - namely, ignorance and collective insanity.

Wake up, people. The day USA uses a nuclear weapon will be the last day of human civilization. Anyone who believes the opposite is only deceiving himself.
 
Right on, comrade Rattsky, I fear it's too late for the rest of the world, but, luckily, we live in a country not worth nuking. Yup, in 5-10 years me and Ratty will be drinking coctails on a beach while the rest of the world gets engulfed in the holy flame.
 
DirtyDreamDesigner said:
Right on, comrade Rattsky, I fear it's too late for the rest of the world, but, luckily, we live in a country not worth nuking. Yup, in 5-10 years me and Ratty will be drinking coctails on a beach while the rest of the world gets engulfed in the holy flame.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, nuclear winter will be worldwide and we will die along with everyone else.

I wouldn't mind sipping cocktails in a fallout shelter, though.
 
Kharn said:
Dude, the US has already used a nuclear weapon in a war.
Click to expand...
I wrote: The day USA uses a nuclear weapon will be the last day of human civilization.

I didn't write: The day USA uses a nuclear weapon for the first time will be the last day of human civilization.
 
Graz'zt said:
Kharn said:
Dude, the US has already used a nuclear weapon in a war.
Click to expand...
I wrote: The day USA uses a nuclear weapon will be the last day of human civilization.

I didn't write: The day USA uses a nuclear weapon for the first time will be the last day of human civilization.
Click to expand...

so what else is needed to make it THE day? the day your resilience is fully depleted? lol
 
Dodgerovitch, he wasn't talking bunker busters. He was talking the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs in 1945. Ever heard of THEM, by any chance?

Today the United States and Russia both have ICBMs with warheads in the 10-25 MEGATON range (though admittedly cruise missiles have much smaller warheads than that, usually 1 megaton at the max). Our most powerful ICBMS= roughly 10 to 15 THOUSAND times higher yield than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs (12 and 15 kilotons, respectively). And that's not counting the experimental 25 megaton bombs tested by the USA, and the 50 megaton bomb tested by the Soviet Union.

The way I see it is that the day a non-naive (about the true scale of the effects of a nuclear device- though you could make the case that the Bush administration is naive about this) USA uses a modern, extremely powerful "city-buster" nuclear weapon for any other reason than attempting to end an extremely bloody war against an entrenched, organized, and fanatical military opposition will be when the beginning of the end has come.
 
Dodgerovitch, he wasn't talking bunker busters. He was talking the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs in 1945. Ever heard of THEM, by any chance?
Click to expand...

he said and i quote:

The day USA uses a nuclear weapon will be the last day of human civilization.
Click to expand...
assuming the outreak of a great war. he couldnt be reffering to h&s because the year 1945 also coincides with ww2, did you know that? since the end of the ww2 nothing larger than bunker busters was used.
 
Nuclear winter has been discovered by some scientist guy to not be too significant. It would take an asteroid or something like that, nukes aren't enough (unless you use hundreds of 50 megaton nukes, in which case you've pretty much sterilized the planet).
 
^on the contrary, Carl Sagan is one of the most significant figures in scientific field. he holds phds in just about everything.
 
""You Don't Need A Weatherman ..... ""

""You Don't Need A Weatherman ..... ""


....................

KOC gets excited in a manly sort of way,
all this down and dirty, pillow talk of preemptive nukes.
So don't mind if his ""first response"" to 'first strikes' wouldn't be, DUCK AND COVER.
KOC, ""stand tall and be true"".
......................



Faith Based.
This NEWS (?) appears to be RE-RELEASED.
Nuclear brinksmanship against WMD holders, whether state based, and, or, non state based terrorists, is OLD COPY. Nuclear brinksmanship: This is how the Faith Based intimidate friends and win enemies in this 'New Age, touchy feel-y, irrationally exuberant, neo-conservatism, (the other - ""failed ideology"").
Tough talk about bunker busting, once before to show the North Koreans who was the last standing Sooper pow'ah in this manly man's solar system. It's being trotted out to rattle the ICBM's at Iran now.
One could suppose it's a distraction, a misdirection-al gesture, to push the Post Katrina news out of our Faith Based collective UNconsciousness. But, America is more easily attracted to the emotional sh't slinging of the Blame Game to need such a 'carrot, and, or stick', ... to be manipulated by such an intellectual ploy.


Faith Based.
Remember that level 4 and a half hurricane, kicked ass across 3 states. Not 2 weeks old and she's a tired old tart. Embarrassed United States anointed leaderships from mayor, to governor, all the way to God's own W.
Hit the Gulf Coast. Old news.
Not -- exciting -- news. Old news, not entertaining for our Faith Based Species.

Faith Based.
Don't need to quote the old Ban The Bomb stuff from the bad old, sad old, Cold '80's. That content dramatized how ONE nuke would destroy, and, or, tie up most REGIONS in the post big bang response. Assume this 'first' response is at least a mass pan cultural reflex, until we find out who is in charge.

Katrina may be present proof enough.
ONE device, no matter it's delivery, Fed Ex or American Tourister.
ONE device would be trauma enough to illicit this hysterical response from American "'suits and uniforms"" , this preemptive nuclear, bunking busting. response.

Faith Based.
Or is it more a 'polite' bluff, a diplomatic "what if" and not stone writ Faith Based DOCTRINE. Well maybe in the bad old ''Kiss-ing-ger'' days, not in this "New Age"
of Faith Based. wishing in one hand while sh'ting in ... some one else's naive palm.

Faith Based.
Faith Based Space Initiative, target trials were faked to ruse the Soviets.
Faith Based Space Initiative. are the target trails still faked to fleece the American tax payer? Should America place it's faith in science that is filtered through Faith Based agendas?

Faith Based.
"Intelligent Design": When, if, or what ever, "man" was made in "His" image. The "Intelligent Design" -- ability -- was not part of the package. Perhaps, manual transmission, heater - defroster, AM FM radio, and Eve's - cup holders - were the only standard features. Perhaps color and upholstery were the only [ Intelligent D-NA ] options.


Katrina may be present proof enough.
America will have to place it's faith in a leadership that is on vacation, and, or ""home for the weekend"".

See you all Monday, or Friday by the latest.
Maybe we'll have a photo op.
Until then, remember, Duck and Cover, and don't drink the water.





4too
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top