How effective would power armor be in real life?

[Crni Vuk]

I do not know if I calculated it correctly, but if we use tungsten as armor, with a strength of 20mm, you might need quite a lot of material to protect every part of your body. - And only from usual small arms like 50 cal. Shaped charges would still go trough this armor, like a hot knive trough butter.

I hope I havn't done any mistakes.

Tungsten has a density of 19.25 g/cm3 (at room temperature?), density x volume gives us the weight, since volume here is g/cm3 the weight is 19,25g for a single cubic centimetre. We have 20mm of armor, which would be 2 blocks of 1 cubic centimetre as layer. But, as we talk about a surface, it would be 4 cubes. So 19,25g/cm3 x 4cm3 = 77g. The human skin of an 80cm large person with 180 kg, has aprox. a surface area of 2m, 77g x 2000cm = 154000g of material, or 154kg. Just for the protection. We probably can remove some areas, as the joints and any moveable parts probably won't be a solid object, so this is a very conservative calculation, if I havn't done any mistakes. But, I think just to show what we are dealing with, it gets us close enough, as we would have to also account for the weapon, amunition, wires, servos, power source and so on. Probably another 100 kg? Eh, let us see a 50 cal machine gun weights 38kg, a single bullet has 110g, 10 rounds, let us be generous 1kg, so depending on the weapon you chose you might be looking at something like 300-400kg of weight.

So much for Power Armor :p

 

[gustarballs1983]

as I've said in my previous post current planned uses for powered exoskeletons are pretty basic load bering and logistics probably next on the run will be handicapped and disabled people in case of powered exoskeletons military combat use comes last because as You've stated it's going to require far more sophisticated technology than we have today.

As for .50cal "machine gun" than i don't know how much it wheights as machinegun would be something like browning M2 wich is lighter than GAU-19. GAU-19 in it's lightest form wheights 48kg and that's without ammo probably to shoot more agressive rounds like explosive sabots it would require to wield heavy barreled version (60kg). So i agree it's not possible yet to equip XOS-2 with GAU-19. Maybe with next gen servos or even past next gen it will be possible. DARPA Plans are to achive at least 400lbs (190kg) of freeweight lifting power and with that one could at least be clad in metallic armor for homeland like security like blocking/controlling riots without weapons like standing next to each other with a SWAT like shield as an inpenetrable wall..
the rest (not nessecerally but) might come with time. Thouth i would not totally cross out the idea of powered armor wearable tank capable of wielding heavy weapons, I do agree it's far from realisation. and i do agree that in many ways bethesda went over their heads when it comes to realism about power armor especially that "no fall damage" and "cardboard coated raider powered armor".
The whole powered armor idea seemes unrealistic now but i think if humanity does not extinguish itself or no other factor extinguish it in next 50 years or so, we might se power armor idea come to life. Remember that Powered Armor in Fallout lore was an invention made recently before the war, it made it in the army only in small scale not only because of the costs but because not enaugh time before the bombs fell.. So I wouldn't cross that out as totally impossible if i were You.. It's impossible now but not nessecerly like in 50 years foward. It's still plenty of time before 2077 :p

 

[NotAcasul]

They're certainly imposing, so I would imagine use for them in peace-keeping operations.

Scratch that. They are used for that:

I could also see them being used for troops carrying heavier weapons.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Well, @gustarballs1983 the problem is, that you might run into the same issues like tanks. There is only so much that you can do with the technology, before you get to the limits of the material. The joints of the machine, will be it's weak points. And if you can't really use heavier weapons with it, than it begs the question. Why bother? A tank together with infantry can do already an amazing job right now. While offering more cover and protection for the infantry. Having a 120mm HE shell flung at you, can really ruin your day. Where as a power armor even with a 50 cal won't provide you with an awfull lot more firepower than a typical infantry squad can already carry with them.

The whole powered armor idea seemes unrealistic now but i think if humanity does not extinguish itself or no other factor extinguish it in next 50 years or so, we might se power armor idea come to life.

THe point is, just because they do research now, doesn't mean it has to end up on the battlefield. See, the US tested nuclear powered planes. And that thing, was even feasible!

(By the way this is pretty awesome, if you're into nuclear stuff!)
Nuclear-Powered Vehicle Concepts from the Mid-20th Century

However, I don't think one has to explain, why that was not a concept for the future .
Anyway! My point is, even when they reach a level of technology that is sophisticated enough to give a human soldier a power armor that could, make use of some, let us say 3,7cm gun or 5cm gun, in 50 or 60 years, they might simply create a robot with the same materials and technology that has less weight, and you won't need power armor anymore.

This is entirely my prediction, so of course, take it with a grain of salt. But I think we will see in the not so distant future a much larger focus on automated weapons, robots and remote controlled drones with smaller design, which are easy to conceal. Better software and materials will certainly make it possible, eliminating the human part as much as possible.

 

[gustarballs1983]

yeah but i still do not understand how you can't see a difference in armament between marine sqiad with A16 assault rifles and marine squad in powered armor all equipped with miniguns..
the difference is obvious MOAR DAKKA

and we all know there is never enuff dakka

::::

 

[Einhanderc7]

I find it kind of funny reading all these posts about bullet resistance and junk. Lets break it down for the readers out there with less time to read through the entire thread. Power Armor just is not feasible without MAJOR technological breakthroughs, and solutions to multiple glaring issues. While it is an interesting concept it also suffers from the fact that it is just a novelty for now.

Maybe in the future we will discover new materials, and better engineering to put a functioning system like this together. But for its current use, and application it would be a dud.

 

[gustarballs1983]

truth is it's hard to say how far humanity is from developing a full powered armor however in the current state of technology it would be far more reasonable to let unmanned vehicles do the job instead of humans when the technology arrives.. as Crni Vuk stated. it's far less casualties this way.
In reality power armor is mostly about MOAR DAKKA and also a hoped for penis extension to the generals in pentagon and all Fallout series playerbase than anything else.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Maybe in the future we will discover new materials, and better engineering to put a functioning system like this together. But for its current use, and application it would be a dud.

Yeah, but those same technologies could be put to use to make robots, tanks and improving on designs that we have already now.
It always comes down to the question, how much bang do you get for your cost? Like I said, I somehow feel the future is more about automated systems, drones, robots and the like. How, when and in what shapes and forms they will come? I have no clue.

Why go for PA when you could have one of these?

Exosuits that can amplify the power of the user on the other hand, are a whole different story! If they can finally figure out how to make a reilable and long lasting power source.

 

[eissa]

Yeah, but those same technologies could be put to use to make robots, tanks and improving on designs that we have already now.
It always comes down to the question, how much bang do you get for your cost? Like I said, I somehow feel the future is more about automated systems, drones, robots and the like. How, when and in what shapes and forms they will come? I have no clue.

Why go for PA when you could have one of these?

Crni, i know your editing skill is so good, but why? the trash can helmet

 

[Crni Vuk]

That's not my image, random google search for UN peacekeeper robot.

 

[eissa]

That's not my image, random google search for UN peacekeeper robot.

sorry pal, then i would disagree. the whole humanoid robot is not effective compare to what a synthetic organism could do in shape and size. why need to be bipedal when you could just like Interstellar TARS?

 

[Crni Vuk]

It was just an example to spice up the post . Not to be taken really seriously.
If you want to hear my opinion on it? I think - just a guess! - that we will see in the next 50-70 years more autonomous equipment following the same designs we see today, with better weapons and protection of course, but still a tank in 2070 might be still clearly recognizable as tank, but using a gauss weapon as gun. Sorry! No mechas in my future even though I love that design! But it's simply not feasible. The next generation of tanks might already feature only 3 maybe even just 2 crewmembers, a commander and driver, and going from there we might at some point see tanks, and other military vehicles completely operating on their own, with some human infantry drones/robots at their side.

 

[Einhanderc7]

Militarized drones are a lot farther out than you think. I would give the time frame on that a bump to at least 90-130 years simply because it is still restricted by some of the flaws power armor would have like the power source. Not to mention programming a drone unit how to identify levels of force escillation to prevent unwanted civilian deaths. (This ain't no robo cop we dealin with here)

 

[Crni Vuk]

I have read somewhere that 90% of the casualties from drone strikes are civilans and innocent people, which includes a lot of children as well. You could say they already approve of children getting killed, today.
So something tells me a programm to perfeclty identify targets, won't be the highest of their priorities.

 

[Einhanderc7]

Valid point, however we both know they will attempt to force them into a domestic scenario such as suplimenting a police presence in population centers. But this side debate is pointless since its completely based on speculation.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Well, some automated defences are, as far as I know, already in use today. One of the biggest might be the dooms-day-machine.

Dead Hand (Russian: Система «Периметр», Systema "Perimetr", 15Э601),[1] also known as Perimeter,[2] was a Cold-War-era nuclear-control system used by the Soviet Union.[3] General speculation from insiders alleges that the system remains in use in post-Soviet Russia.[4] An example of fail-deadly deterrence, it can automatically trigger the launch of the Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) if a nuclear strike is detected by seismic, light, radioactivity and overpressure sensors. By most accounts, it is normally switched off and is supposed to be activated during dangerous crises only; however, it is said to remain fully functional and able to serve its purpose whenever needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_(nuclear_war)

Well ... there is that. Dead Hand, now that's a great name for a doomsday device. If the military of this world, had no issue in giving up their nuclear weapons to what you could describe as a computer-system, how big is the chance that they would have second thoughts about robots in combat zones? Particularly if the civilans as risk wouldn't be your own people ...

 

[GammaHawk645]

To be honest, a hydrogen fuel cell could be used as a long-term power option, and I believe that this suit could have possible recon application because, due to its weight carrying and fall-proof suspension system, it could be used to carry out shock-and-awe type missions, similar to the ODST of the Halo universe, but instead of a streamlined super-soldier wearing battle armor, you get a pneumatic Hulk that walks the streets with armor that seems to size up to 90mm thick in some places.

The main disadvantage is the sheer size of the thing, and how easily a servo can get locked up or completely disassembled by an electromagnetic weapon. There should also be a mention of a few exposed areas of the power armor nexus, but they could be easily covered by a type of composite armor.

The easiest way to slim this beast down a bit would be to use a reinforced form of the HASEL actuator currently under development at the university of Colorado. This will not only slim down the machine, but decrease the energy cost, make room for more plating, and make other capable features possible, you could add an electromagnetic disruption field under that armor, making it possible to slow, deflect, or maybe even repel small arms fire completely. Slap carbon, ceramic, and AR 500 steel composite plating as well as an impact-absorbent gel layer on that monster and you have a fighting machine that only needs a mechanically augmented fist to kill.

Probably saved for elite soldiers, you could make a low profile titanium skeleton for it and add a Nitinol outer husk to allow for practical armor regeneration using simple electric heat impulses. Heck, the bullet's retained heat could cause the regeneration and embed the bullet into the armor, then you have an armor that expands the more it is shot. these suits could cost an estimated around 35,000 dollars to create with raw materials, add a small thruster pack as seen on the back of Halo's Spartans (probably fueled by some sort of Helium and Hydrogen combustion), and you have an elite soldier that practically costs less than it does to armor a Hummer and mount a .50 cal on it.

Imagine what a navy SEAL could do in that thing. It would wreak havoc.

 

[James Snowscoran]

As others have touched upon, it's simply not a practical technology to deploy. To be viable it basically needs to meet the following requirements:

- Plating that can withstand armour-piercing ammunition
- Servos that can carry the load of the armour and heavy equipment
- A power supply that can power it independently for extended deployment
- Optics and a user interface that offers the operator situational awareness from inside the suit
- Cooling and other functions that prevent acute discomfort from inhibiting the operator's performance

And all these components need to be robust enough not to break down when subjected to the extended stress of battlefield conditions.

It's not feasible with current technology, and more importantly, it's significantly easier to solve the issues involved by removing the human operator and designing your heavy weapons platform as a remote-controlled or autonomous drone.

 

[naossano]

PA or super-mutants would provide a serious advantage in toxic environment, regardless if the gas were launched by them or the opponent.