Morgan_
Duckerz
My brain got stuck and didn't want to seem like a bitch for not responding lol
It'll prepare me for life better than what I've been doing. Finally got the pc set up so there's that
I like the Intelligent deathclaws, and I personally would like for them to return!
- Thread starter ElloinmorninJ
- Start date
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
As far as Deathclaws go... In the game they were (I think) an engineered bio-weapon, to be let loose on the enemy. IIRC [from somewhere] they were created from various animal DNA, including Apes, and Jackson's Chameleon. In reality... Black Isle needed a monster, and they had a model of one in their display case, from a D&D game; the Terrasque.
Look familiar?
Now... I could say that (as I see it)...every mutant in Fallout that talks, originally talked (excepting the stupid flytraps, but those are only in FO2). I can imagine that Deathclaws might be able to learn to understand spoken language, but they probably wouldn't be able to mouth any of it out themselves—and yet...some birds do it without lips.
Look familiar?
Now... I could say that (as I see it)...every mutant in Fallout that talks, originally talked (excepting the stupid flytraps, but those are only in FO2). I can imagine that Deathclaws might be able to learn to understand spoken language, but they probably wouldn't be able to mouth any of it out themselves—and yet...some birds do it without lips.
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T
TorontoReign
Guest
It's simple comic book logic.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
T
TorontoReign
Guest
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
_________
The singer who provided the voice for Mr. Ed had a song of his in Fallout 4.
Atomic Postman
Vault Archives Overseer
I wouldn't say blinded but favouritism gives a bit of unfair leeway.
Also you're giving me the Pete Hines argument "If one thing is silly, that means everything goes out the window". I'm not arguing talking deathclaws aren't within the potential purview of the setting or bad because they're "unrealistic", I'm arguing they're a bad idea flat out.
The three things you listed The Master, Super Mutants and Vault-Tec are pulp sci-fi ideas but they play legitimate roles in the story and in the context of the setting they're easy to take seriously. The Master and the Unity are a legitimate threat and are great villains, as we see in Vegas in Vaults 22 and 11 Vault-Tec can be very serious whilst still fundamentally absurd. Even if serious isn't the goal, they're well executed ideas. Talking deathclaws aren't. They're random, farcical and the justification for their existence if anything undermines the Enclave (makes them appear as incompetent cartoons). Their role (strange things asking for help despite the players inherent antagonism) would have been better served by Super Mutants (Helping the former villains hold control of their life in Vault 13, the failure state of the prior game).
They go into the bucket with other stuff in Fallout 2 that should have been restricted to random encounters out in the desert, they're a cut above chess scorpion because they serve basic purpose in the plot but as I said I'm of the belief their role and position would have been better served by something else.
Something fails in their presentation when despite being no more absurd than vats of mutant goo or psychic flesh blobs they unimmerse me in the experience and make me guffaw.
Slaughter Manslaught
Vault Senior Citizen
If they are brought back, I think it would be interesting to explore how Intelligent Deathclaws would be seen in the wasteland. Vault 13 in 2 feels like a microcosm of it.
For example, what are these lizards eating? In 2 they used to steal cattle from NCR herds. What if they're not somewhere full of giant cattle herds to steal?
In 2 it is interesting to notice that they seem to need humans at a certain level, as when the computer's interface broke. They lack oposable thumbs, and are big bundles of claws. Deathclaws could't farm, for example, or do complex tool-work. They would need humans for that.
I think Intelligent Deathclaws would live in symbiosis with humans. Their very fame and power would be used to create a place of safety. They would use their power and bulk to protect humans in exchange for food and help with things they cannot do.
Their lands would have a lot of cattle raising, and these creatures likely eat a lot.
It is interesting that, akin to Super Mutants, most Sentient Deathclaws are about on the intellectual level of chidlren. Deathclaws like Goris and Gunthar are not the rule.
I suspect they would come to enjoy the use of robots as well, especially the voice-activated ones. Maybe a splinter group just fetches a bunch of robots to do things for them and leaves, because they hate or fear humans.
They would face a lot of hate and prejudice as well, and some people might see them as an existential threat.
Imagine their military, a mix of humans with long-ranged weapons and Deathclaws as the shock troops. Human auxiliaries pin the enemy with gunfire while the Deathclaws advance and pounce in close-quarters combat. Imagine Deathclaws wearing armor fitted for them.
It would be interesting to see their alien mentality, and how clearly these are sentient non-humans.
For example, what are these lizards eating? In 2 they used to steal cattle from NCR herds. What if they're not somewhere full of giant cattle herds to steal?
In 2 it is interesting to notice that they seem to need humans at a certain level, as when the computer's interface broke. They lack oposable thumbs, and are big bundles of claws. Deathclaws could't farm, for example, or do complex tool-work. They would need humans for that.
I think Intelligent Deathclaws would live in symbiosis with humans. Their very fame and power would be used to create a place of safety. They would use their power and bulk to protect humans in exchange for food and help with things they cannot do.
Their lands would have a lot of cattle raising, and these creatures likely eat a lot.
It is interesting that, akin to Super Mutants, most Sentient Deathclaws are about on the intellectual level of chidlren. Deathclaws like Goris and Gunthar are not the rule.
I suspect they would come to enjoy the use of robots as well, especially the voice-activated ones. Maybe a splinter group just fetches a bunch of robots to do things for them and leaves, because they hate or fear humans.
They would face a lot of hate and prejudice as well, and some people might see them as an existential threat.
Imagine their military, a mix of humans with long-ranged weapons and Deathclaws as the shock troops. Human auxiliaries pin the enemy with gunfire while the Deathclaws advance and pounce in close-quarters combat. Imagine Deathclaws wearing armor fitted for them.
It would be interesting to see their alien mentality, and how clearly these are sentient non-humans.
ElloinmorninJ
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
I assume they’d just have a few (extremely open-minded) humans keep a bunch of Brahmin herds in a pen. How much Brahmin do you think a Deathclaw would need a day?
Slaughter Manslaught
Vault Senior Citizen
At least one a day? Look at the size of these things. Being cold-blooded may help, but I highly suspect deathclaws are not cold-blooded.
Ugly Kid
Still Mildly Glowing
Well honestly, talking deathclaws could've worked if executed differently. Although, I think Goris being the last of his kind makes him even more unique, he's a scholar which is rare in the wasteland, and he's a an albino deathclaw which is also rare, then you remember he's a talking talking deathclaw and he uses a robe to blend in with humans, making him really unique. The next way to make him more unique would be to make him the entire population of a species, the intelligent deathclaw species.
I do think that the bug where Xarn never warns the vault 13 deathclaws of the Enclave finding them out should've been fixed. However, I agree with Atomic Postman on this:
I still like Goris as well, but maybe he could've been the deathclaw being held captive at Navarro. Goris could've been the first deathclaw to be apart of the deathclaw FEV experiments, the FEV turns him albino, allows him to parrot human speech, and gives him sentience. He's going to be euthanized because he's just a test product, but if you help him escape then he will meet you outside Navarro, after killing the guy who directs the new Enclave recruits to Navarro and taking his robes. He will ask to join you because he doesn't know what's out there.
A possible ending for Goris is that he becomes Arroyo's official scholar. The reason he would choose to join Arroyo would be that he doesn't want to leave the Chosen One's side, because Goris still has mental age of a 4 year old and the Chosen would be the only parental-type figure Goris can remember.
Maybe, just maybe... Goris convinces a female deathclaw to join Arroyo, and there is then a very linear line of intelligent deathclaws that don't leave the tribe ever. Maybe one leaves the tribe but doesn't reproduce outside of it.
Are these good middle grounds for everyone to agree on?
I do think that the bug where Xarn never warns the vault 13 deathclaws of the Enclave finding them out should've been fixed. However, I agree with Atomic Postman on this:
I still like Goris as well, but maybe he could've been the deathclaw being held captive at Navarro. Goris could've been the first deathclaw to be apart of the deathclaw FEV experiments, the FEV turns him albino, allows him to parrot human speech, and gives him sentience. He's going to be euthanized because he's just a test product, but if you help him escape then he will meet you outside Navarro, after killing the guy who directs the new Enclave recruits to Navarro and taking his robes. He will ask to join you because he doesn't know what's out there.
A possible ending for Goris is that he becomes Arroyo's official scholar. The reason he would choose to join Arroyo would be that he doesn't want to leave the Chosen One's side, because Goris still has mental age of a 4 year old and the Chosen would be the only parental-type figure Goris can remember.
Maybe, just maybe... Goris convinces a female deathclaw to join Arroyo, and there is then a very linear line of intelligent deathclaws that don't leave the tribe ever. Maybe one leaves the tribe but doesn't reproduce outside of it.
Are these good middle grounds for everyone to agree on?
ElloinmorninJ
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Well, no. First off, it’d be wierd to be able to get to companions in one game area, and getting Goris so late in the game would make him useless.
Ugly Kid
Still Mildly Glowing
I don't think it'd be weird, I mean you get Miria and Davin from the same place, and in Fallout 4 Diamond City and Good Neighbor both have two companions. Even if Modoc and the Fallout 4 cities didn't have 2 companions each, would it really be so bad for there to be two companions in the same place? And you say that getting Goris in end-game would make him useless, I disagree, you could just buff him if you really think so though, plus K-9 and Marcus aren't entirely useless and they are end-game companions.
Is the fact that Goris is now in Navarro the only reason you dislike my idea? If so, then where would you put Goris?
Ugly Kid
Still Mildly Glowing
Oh, and if you don't find Dogmeat before Nick Valentine checks Kelogg's house, then Dogmeat shows up there, so 3 companions in Diamond City.
ElloinmorninJ
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Yeah, the Navarro thing is what I dislike, I don’t even entirely like V13 as his starting point, unless they made him able to wear some damn armor
Ugly Kid
Still Mildly Glowing
So where do you suppose he should be? I still feel like he should be an Enclave experiment, maybe he's hiding somewhere in San Fran since it's the closest place to Navarro?
ElloinmorninJ
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Anywhere would be good if he had armor. Im more upset the bastard didnt have armor
Ugly Kid
Still Mildly Glowing
So my original idea would work for you, if the same guy who is trying to make deathclaw soldiers made some prototype armors? Maybe there is the weakest set of deathclaw armor is currently being worn by chicken in Modoc. Then the second set would be in the Navarro armory. Then the third would be at vault 13. And you would have to see someone about upgrading Goris's most powerful armor.
I honestly can't think of a better place than Navarro if we want Goris to be in the game. I guess he could be the only deathclaw at vault 13, but we all agree that vault 13 isn't the best choice for talking deathclaws.
I just came up with an alternate idea. What if Goris is a cyberdeathclaw. Maybe not entirely cyborg like a cyberdog, but at least a voice box so he has a reason to talk other than just parroting what humans say. I'd still have him be an Enclave experiment and be the first (and last) subject of the experiment. Although this one to me is also a bit out there, but it would make sense that the guy who makes a cyberdog would make another cybernetic animal.
ElloinmorninJ
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
And what would you do for Vault 13?
Ugly Kid
Still Mildly Glowing
Like I said in my first reply to this thread I like Atomic Postman's idea:
They would be the second generation that the Enclave made