I would prefer a Fallout 3 remaster to Fallout 4

[Norzan]

The Enclave would have outright destroyed Mariposa base and the FEV if they knew what it did.

And the Enclave in Fallout 2 and New Vegas are fine in terms of consistency. It's Fallout 3 that adds a bunch of bullshit that contradicts their actions in Fallout 2.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

What I hate so much is the obsession of the Fallout 3 crowd with the Enclave. Emil/Bethesda has sold these guys the idea that the Enclave is really a good option for ruling the post war world.

One person asked in the Fallout 2 remake in FNV if the player could finally join the Enclave.
I honestly found that so face palming stupid. Did this guy not pay attention? The Enclave are planning to kill everyone on the mainland because they are not "true humans" and they have been experimenting on the player's tribesmen as well as their distant relatives the Vault Dwellers of Vault 13 to see if Curling Strain FEV is an effective killer.

The player is a mutant in the eyes of the Enclave, plain and simple, how much the player may sympathize with the Enclave.

I believe the problem comes from the fact that they and the BOS for that matter have "cool" toys such as power armor, vertibird, military bases.
"They look cool so I want to join them no matter what."

 

[Gizmojunk]

I don't recall that West Tek was "forced" to hand over FEV.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Okay, it has been a while since I played Fallout 1.
I though that West Tek handed over FEV to the government after they had developed it so that it could undergo more dedicated testing at Mariposa.

 

[Charwo]

I don't see why the notion there was a second program at Vault 87 is so problematic.
Here's the thing: the notion that the PIV template could be copied digitally and played with at another facility is not at all surprising. And it could have had entirely different ends: instead of making US boys into hulking supermen, turn Chinese dissidents and POWs into fearless shock berserkers, and in that capacity would be an nearly endless source of cheap troops. This also accounts why the 87 mutants are so squishy: they aren't designed to be super tough, only real aggressive and expendable and easily killable if they get out of hand. That's why you see no hardened security in Vault 87. First because whoever was running the place didn't think the world was actually coming to an end, and then losing a few personnel to proof of concept was completely safe. But being arrogant dipshits, they somehow made enough EEP to make thousands or tens of thousands of orks instead of enough to only make a few dozen.

 

[Norzan]

I don't see why the notion there was a second program at Vault 87 is so problematic.

It is very problematic because the Enclave was running the Vault 87 experiment through Vault Tec. Meaning the Enclave would know that the Mariposa base exists and what the FEV does. Reminder that their goal is to exterminate every mutant in Fallout 2, yet they stumble upon the Mariposa base and don't know what the FEV does because they bring samples back to the oil rig to study. Why wouldn't they destroy the base the second they left the oil rig and why did they bring the FEV to the oil rig for study, if Fallout 3 claims they know what it does?

And why would they need two places to do the same research? What do they gain from that? They are already testing FEV in Mariposa, they don't need another place to do the same exact thing. Yes, Vault 87 entire experiment was to test the effects of the FEV, which they were already doing in the Mariposa base. And all of the FEV was in the Mariposa base and it couldn't leave the base because the military most likely wouldn't allow it to. It was a controlled, secret place.

No amount of mental gymnastics or overly convoluted baseless arguments are gonna justify Super Mutants on the East Coast: it makes no sense in the end.

 

[Charwo]

They didn't know what the Master's FEV did, remember that's a huge difference between Maxon's FEV which was causing Lovecraftian body horror. One of the patients grew a tenticle out of stomach which attacked a nurse. And besides, they retrieved it to see hat it could do.

The Enclave knew damn well what Mariposa was. Just because they were holed up during Fallout 1 doesn't mean they wouldn't know how to do intelligence gathering, both passive and humint once they started taking an interest in the mainland. And besides, the Enclave was scrambling all through 2077 to button up because the storm was coming and they knew it. Records like that are easy to get lost. And besides, neither the body horror FEV or the Master's FEV is what the FEV project was designed to create. The FEV was supposed to be a Captain America serum, not a Hulk creator.

Now this DOES create a huge fucking plot hole in Fallout 3, which is, assuming they have all the databases of Vault locations, or even the ability to download all the locations of the VaultTec central mainframe in Washington DC, why not lift the Geck out, use their stockpiled resources to reverse engineer it and creating 'paradise communities where they could de facto enslave the local "mutants" and profit off their labor. OR....just create an EEP only countermeasure that they could spray over the countryside and cause the 87 Supes to melt into organic slag? And man oh man a gun that did that like the Fallout 1 & 2 plasma weapons would be tits!

But all they needed to do have 87 be mostly filled with Supermutant corpses with a few survivors eating their brothers, and the GECK went, with Autumn, still captures you as a place to find and ambush you.

That said, no one I know will defend the Fallout 3 main story. The main story is balls to the walls AWFUL. I don't want a Fallout 3 remaster over Fallout 4 because the main story is better, Fallout 4's is better, although that's like saying shoe leather has some nutritional value. I want it because the World building (locally) makes sense, the side quests are a LOT of fun, and most importantly, all the niftysettlment mechanics go MUCH better in Fallout 3 AND the modern modding scene could make this a fabulous playground.

 

[CT Phipps]

But neither the government not West Tek handed any samples or supplies out to third parties.

Except Vault Tec because the government gave Vault-Tec some samples.

Which is literally the explanation in the game.

It's not a non-explanation, it is an explanation.

Now this DOES create a huge fucking plot hole in Fallout 3, which is, assuming they have all the databases of Vault locations, or even the ability to download all the locations of the VaultTec central mainframe in Washington DC, why not lift the Geck out, use their stockpiled resources to reverse engineer it and creating 'paradise communities where they could de facto enslave the local "mutants" and profit off their labor. OR....just create an EEP only countermeasure that they could spray over the countryside and cause the 87 Supes to melt into organic slag? And man oh man a gun that did that like the Fallout 1 & 2 plasma weapons would be tits!

A couple of things:

1. The Enclave knows where all of the GECKs are, they have the Vault records. They've never cared about them.

2. The GECKS are only minor miracle machines. They can make tiny patches of paradise, not big ones.

3. They do have a plan to wipe out all of the mutants. It's called poisoning the Purifier. Colonel Autumn doesn't have the guts to do it!

That said, no one I know will defend the Fallout 3 main story. The main story is balls to the walls AWFUL. I don't want a Fallout 3 remaster over Fallout 4 because the main story is better, Fallout 4's is better, although that's like saying shoe leather has some nutritional value. I want it because the World building (locally) makes sense, the side quests are a LOT of fun, and most importantly, all the niftysettlment mechanics go MUCH better in Fallout 3 AND the modern modding scene could make this a fabulous playground.

I'll defend it.

 

[Gizmojunk]

Now this DOES create a huge fucking plot hole in Fallout 3, which is, assuming they have all the databases of Vault locations, or even the ability to download all the locations of the VaultTec central mainframe in Washington DC....

They have administrative access to the Vault-Tec systems; they can log into the Pipboys, they are on Posiedo-Net; the PC can reach the Enclave exchange operator from the Gecko Power plant reactor control computer.

They logged into Vault 13, and told them the "All Clear" signal [events seen in the title intro video].
_________________________

Bethesda lore is rubbish.

Spoiler

 

[Norzan]

How convenient the Super Mutants in Vault 87 and Appalachia look nigh identical to the Master's Super Mutants, even though the Master's Super Mutants were from his own made strand of FEV. Besides Vault Tec having the FEV making no sense because the military had all of the FEV put in Mariposa base, so it makes no sense for the government to give Vault Tec FEV if they are already have West Tek testing FEV. Why would they need two places for the same thing? It's not an explanation, it's a copout that contradicts the previous games. A lore break. With its only purpose being to put Super Mutants on the East Coast because they wanted recognizable Fallout things in their game.

Then they somehow created a strand of FEV that function nearly identical to the Master's strand. Remind that the Master's strand is unique to him, he made it himself.

They didn't know what the Master's FEV did, remember that's a huge difference between Maxon's FEV which was causing Lovecraftian body horror. One of the patients grew a tenticle out of stomach which attacked a nurse. And besides, they retrieved it to see hat it could do.

They would know what the Mariposa base is but they wouldn't know what the Master FEV does? The Master that terrorized the wasteland? If they did intelligence gathering even when on the oil rig, they would know what his FEV does because they would know what Super Mutants are. And if they didn't, they would know right away who the Master is and what is FEV does by just doing intelligence gathering. Yet, they stumble upon the Mariposa base and have to bring FEV samples to know what it does.

It's like the Enclave doesn't know what in the hell FEV is and that whole Vault Tec bullshit in Fallout 3 makes no sense. Because it doesn't.