Interplay hits GameTap

[Bodybag]

That makes more sense! We'll consider it an honorary strike anyways.

Still, I think you underestimate what Steam is doing for PC gaming.

Well yeah, but that'll happen Steam or no Steam. Steam is just pushing itself to the forefront and ahead of its competitors.

That's also selling it a little short. Steam was the innovator and is the industry standard in digital content delivery. They took a pretty big risk with this business model, which included court battles with Sierra and Vivendi before it could even get off the ground. You say Steam or no Steam, but if Valve didn't make the first leap, who do you suggest would have in their stead?

As for PC gaming "will live", I have no crystal ball to check what PC gaming would look like today without digital download,

In lieu of a crystal ball, why not just check the shelves at your average local game retailer. Nice selection, huh?

but let's keep on thing clear, PC gaming is currently neither dead nor dying.

It's definitely ailing, dude. And like it or not, Steam is a vital source of life support at the moment.

 

[Brother None]

That's also selling it a little short. Steam was the innovator and is the industry standard in digital content delivery. They took a pretty big risk with this business model, which included court battles with Sierra and Vivendi before it could even get off the ground. You say Steam or no Steam, but if Valve didn't make the first leap, who do you suggest would have in their stead?

Aye, fair 'nough.

In lieu of a crystal ball, why not just check the shelves at your average local game retailer. Nice selection, huh?

I haven't gone to a game retailer in years.

Seriously. What kind of PC gamer goes to a game retailer?

It's definitely ailing, dude. And like it or not, Steam is a vital source of life support at the moment.

Like it or not? Eh?

Ailing is a relative term. Microsoft is still running on operational losses for Xbox, as is Sony. Profit margins - inherently low - are even lower for console games. They're cushioned by the current wave upwards, but that's not going to last.

And then compared to what? Inaccurate PC figures based on rough retail estimates, ignoring digital download as well as the two biggest PC markets, Germany and Russia...

The Russian offline PC market is 450 million USD. The German PC game market was 470 million EUR in 2005. Steam has 15 million users.

And yet, and yet, and yet...publishers are still fine blaming their ineptitude on piracy, and people still feel these NPD numbers actually mean something

It's a crazy world we live in.

 

[bazola]

I like steam well enough, and it works well for me at times, but I'm a half life fanboy so take that with a grain of salt.


However steam is hardly the only way to get digital downloads. There are a couple of websites that have been doing it probably just as long (direct2drive, gamersgate), and theres also Stardock which is making a lot of money selling their games online.

 

[Tagaziel]

Seriously. What kind of PC gamer goes to a game retailer?

Me, sometimes. EMPiK and Media Markt sometimes sell good titles below regular prices.

 

[Brother None]

Me, sometimes. EMPiK and Media Markt sometimes sell good titles below regular prices.

Eh. I only buy from the discount bin anyway. And nowadays I get games for free because I'm an easily bribed journalist.

There are a couple of websites that have been doing it probably just as long (direct2drive, gamersgate), and theres also Stardock which is making a lot of money selling their games online.

I like how - near as I can figure - there's just no DRM or subscription model whatsoever for GG games. That's quite the exception in today's DRM-poluted world

 

[Dougly]

As for PC gaming "will live", I have no crystal ball to check what PC gaming would look like today without digital download,

In lieu of a crystal ball, why not just check the shelves at your average local game retailer. Nice selection, huh?

I don't want to get too involved in this argument.

However, I would like it to be noted that I started buying my PC games from sources other than local game retailers long before the selections at those places went down hill.

Nowadays, almost all of my PC games come from Amazon.com. I have no idea whether or not the purchasing habits of others mirror my own in this respect. It is enough, however, to make me wonder whether anyone would buy games from local retailers, even if they did have a better selection.

One last thought, this time on the matter of direct download: I suppose its dominance is probably inevitable, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. Call me "old fashioned," but I prefer to own a box, paper manual, and original CD/DVD, with my PC game.

 

[terebikun]

Call me "old fashioned," but I prefer to own a box, paper manual, and original CD/DVD, with my PC game.

But but...you get a PDF file of the manual! And the boxes are bad for the environment I guess. I like having the original CD/DVD too, but not if it's going to require me to use the CD/DVD as opposed to DD where I don't have to worry about it (which is the reason I got BioShock on Steam, although maybe they've released a No-Disc patch for retail copies by now). And supposedly Steam lets you burn the games you buy to a disc, but I haven't tried it.

I dunno. I like Steam, but I've only been using it since the BioShock demo came out, so not very long. I guess I missed a lot of the big issues people once had with it. All 4 of the games I've bought on Steam downloaded just fine and work perfectly, although trying to use graphics mods on Deus Ex is tricky (Invisible War, on the other hand, mods just fine. Weird). The free stuff section and the automatic patching are also nice. The one weird hangup I've had with Steam is lately games will say they're updating, but they're stuck at 0% and I have to pause and resume, hoping they'll finish. It might just be my computer or my firewall though.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

most of the dreadful problems are ironed out and the detractors simply... faded into obscurity.

Steam is a lot like Vista (which I'm also currently using ). It is sparkly and easy to use, but also unnecessarily bulky and buggy. Steam likes to eat up ~30% of my CPU (X2 6000+) and about 80 megs of ram for shits and giggles while I'm gaming.

The auto-patching is convenient, but every new game released is plagued with steam-related problems. Buying retail still offers a fairly headache free experience.

Or changed their minds, like me. It's an excellent platform, the only thing that could one day save PC gaming.

Not to be a dick or anything, but this is just the current bandwagon to hop on now that Vista bashing has become passé.

PC gaming isn't going anywhere. All of that doomsday bullshit being peddled by terribad developers like Crytek who blame their mediocre game's sales on piracy; and ignore the fact that they push broken, low quality merchandise.

 

[Brother None]

The auto-patching is convenient, but every new game released is plagued with steam-related problems. Buying retail still offers a fairly headache free experience.

Buying Gamer's Gate is as headache-free as buying retail. Don't have enough experience purchasing on other DD services to know the difference, really, but GG I just switch on, download the game, install it and I never have to look at the GG program again.

But but...you get a PDF file of the manual! And the boxes are bad for the environment I guess. I like having the original CD/DVD too, but not if it's going to require me to use the CD/DVD as opposed to DD where I don't have to worry about it.

I like having actual boxes. I have BioShock CE, and recently got the Realms of Arkania trilogy box of eBay, but honestly, it's not like those DVD cases have any charm or added value. DVD cases just fill a void that might as well be empty, I want either a real box or DD.

 

[terebikun]

I like having actual boxes. I have BioShock CE, and recently got the Realms of Arkania trilogy box of eBay, but honestly, it's not like those DVD cases have any charm or added value. DVD cases just fill a void that might as well be empty, I want either a real box or DD.

I don't really care either way I suppose. When I do DD I always get a little nervous of a worldwide catastrophe that takes out the entire grid, and simultaneously my hard drive is wiped, and I lose my game forever (and yet in the midst of this apocalypse-level event I still want to play Audiosurf or whatever). Plus with retail I can usually find a sale or score someone's employee discount. But I also want to avoid games where I have to put the disc in every single time I play, a la BioShock, which is why I passed on the CE/retail version in favor of DD. I dunno why games in this day and age still insist on it (and WarCraft 3 has only just now released a no-CD patch), but it's the final say in my decision.

 

[myzko]

I just had to fill the void by saying that Steam is great!
It gives independent developers a great place to spread their games, yeah!

Just take alook at Red Orchestra: Ostfront '41-'45

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

But I also want to avoid games where I have to put the disc in every single time I play, a la BioShock, which is why I passed on the CE/retail version in favor of DD. I dunno why games in this day and age still insist on it (and WarCraft 3 has only just now released a no-CD patch), but it's the final say in my decision.

I always find ways around having to use CDs. Not only do they heat up your rig (every degree counts when overclocking), but they use energy which costs you money. I've got quite a few full cardboard boxes full of CD cases and games, it'd be a pain in the ass to dig out a cd every time I wanted to play.

I don't understand why developers don't package their games with no-cd exes, as cd checks/drm only cause harm, and don't prevent piracy whatsoever.

Remember how many problems legit customers had (and are still having) with Bioshock's limited activations, and SECUROM? And then remember how it only took 8 hours to crack the game and seed it all over the internet?

When people who actually purchase the game are getting a lower quality product than the free cracked version, you've got a problem.

 

[FeelTheRads]

and don't prevent piracy whatsoever.

But no, you see... if they manage to delay a pirated version to appear a day later than the official release of the game they think they won and they'll get oh so much more purchases for their game because people don't want to wait for one more day.

Yeah... seriously.

There is much money spent of this absolutely useless security that could be used to actually make the game better. And yet, when the game flops, it's always the fault of the piracy. I bet I really hurt that producer 10-15 years ago by playing their game when there was basically no way of buying original games in my country.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

There is much money spent of this absolutely useless security that could be used to actually make the game better.

Another excellent point.

Even if they didn't spend the money to make the game better, they'd still be saving a good chunk of change by skimping out on that crap. I'd love to see the numbers on how much devs/publishers have to dish out to get a game rigged with crap like Securom, and then the cost of maintaining the activation servers.

 

[Tagaziel]

I recall the devs of Galactic Civilizations 2 ignored Starforce entirely (despide the fearmongering of the company's lackeys) and released GC unprotected. It did lead to the appearance of GC2 on the .net, but pirate copies were castrated - they couldn't download any patches or expansions made available free of charge by the developers.

I also find it pitiful that users of pirate HL2 and other Steam games have to wait like sheep for pirate releases of Steam updates. It's really funny.

On the topic of Steam - while initial releases are plagued with problems and require patches, the auto-updating has a neat feature - you don't have to download all the patches separately and install them, you simply download an up-to-date version from the server.

It really saves the effort of having to wade through the Internet/CDs to find the patch that fits your version of the game.

 

[Morbus]

I recall the devs of Galactic Civilizations 2 ignored Starforce entirely (despide the fearmongering of the company's lackeys) and released GC unprotected. It did lead to the appearance of GC2 on the .net, but pirate copies were castrated - they couldn't download any patches or expansions made available free of charge by the developers.

That's not true but whatever. GC2 is a great game and sold accordingly.

I also find it pitiful that users of pirate HL2 and other Steam games have to wait like sheep for pirate releases of Steam updates. It's really funny.

Again, not true.

On the topic of Steam - while initial releases are plagued with problems and require patches, the auto-updating has a neat feature - you don't have to download all the patches separately and install them, you simply download an up-to-date version from the server.

It really saves the effort of having to wade through the Internet/CDs to find the patch that fits your version of the game.

Doesnt' that burn traffic as hell?

 

[FeelTheRads]

I also find it pitiful that users of pirate HL2 and other Steam games have to wait like sheep for pirate releases of Steam updates. It's really funny.

Apparently you can pirate the whole Steam and get all games for free. Now that is funny.

 

[Tagaziel]

That's not true but whatever. GC2 is a great game and sold accordingly.

What is not true? GC2 wasn't Starforce'd AND was available on torrent trackers. Be a little more precise, don't try to pull off a Samon - you have neither the charisma nor the good taste.

Again, not true.

Care to elaborate?

Doesnt' that burn traffic as hell?

Broadband.

Apparently you can pirate the whole Steam and get all games for free. Now that is funny.

As long as one of the Steam verification scans doesn't locate and ban the account. Now that is even funnier.

 

[Morbus]

What is not true? GC2 wasn't Starforce'd AND was available on torrent trackers.

It's not true that pirated copies were castrated.

Be a little more precise, don't try to pull off a Samon - you have neither the charisma nor the good taste.

I don't understand.

Care to elaborate?

Pirate users of HL2 don't have to wait for updates. And I won't elaborate. It's against the rules.

Broadband.

With limited bandwidth... Me? 4GB a mouth plus happy hour from 1am to 8am...

 

[Tagaziel]

What is not true? GC2 wasn't Starforce'd AND was available on torrent trackers.

It's not true that pirated copies were castrated.

Unable to get updates and work with legit copies is what I call castrated.

Be a little more precise, don't try to pull off a Samon - you have neither the charisma nor the good taste.

I don't understand.

Basically, no oneliners.

Care to elaborate?

Pirate users of HL2 don't have to wait for updates. And I won't elaborate. It's against the rules.

Oh yes, most certainly. Now if you excuse me, I'll go feed my army of flying pigs.

With limited bandwidth... Me? 4GB a mouth plus happy hour from 1am to 8am...

What limited bandwidth? Limits were ruled as illegal in Poland. Hence, limitless broadband.