Been thinking, not that I'm going to make either one. Wouldn't the suit hit against the operator when he takes a punch or a shot? Falling from a height would be fatal. Why have the guys behind the tin man idea doesn't answer the question. Even the PA doesn't say anything about this. Iron Man suits and Powerd Infantry Armor are based on the same thing, powered exo skeleton. Anyway, no matter how skin tight the suits are, it's still not gonna work as the operator is not floating in the suit. Also, a PA does indeed limit the FOV of the operator. What did the enclave come up with to solve that problem? What do you guys think?
IRON MAN, POWER ARMOR - WHY IT IS IMPOSSIBLE
- Thread starter Dienan
- Start date
Wel, the operator would be firmly secured in the suit with the suit following and amplifying the operator's motions. Falling from a height wouldn't be a problem as the armor and servos (or whatever motoring you have) would take the fall, subsituting your bones and sinews.
I don't think the Enclave gave a shit about FOV. The helmet probably feels like a gasmask in terms of FOV. They're walking tanks, they don't need surround vision.
I don't think the Enclave gave a shit about FOV. The helmet probably feels like a gasmask in terms of FOV. They're walking tanks, they don't need surround vision.
Simply put, roll a bristle board (forarm size) and put your arm inside it so your wrist come out from the other side. Punch something and the armor (board) would hit you before your punch gets connected. All of the advanced/non-advanced/iron man armors carry this problem. You'd be like a gold fish with no water in a tin. In S.T.A.L.K.E.R I remember, you could hear the servos on your exo-suit work as you sprint. Also in Crysis you could hear the servos work if you have a decent rig. Not saying unintelligent, but the whole FOV thing could be due to an oversight. Maybe they had a system to point out potential threats that's offscreen? Sneaking behind a powerd infantry armor operator wasn't easy and it shouldn't be. What could a tank do if it was just a big dumb piece of tin walking in the battlefield and into ambushes..
valcik
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
The most lethal thing in a hermetically sealed armor is strong farting anyway.
It works the same as medieval plate armours; Tight fit and padding distributes the energy of a hit enough so the operator is not harmed.
Btw., the suit in Crysis doesn't have servos, it's based around artificial muscles, with the suit acting like a second skin.
Btw., the suit in Crysis doesn't have servos, it's based around artificial muscles, with the suit acting like a second skin.
the real reason why you cant do it, is because there is no Tony Stark.
Akratus
Bleep bloop.
What about the fact that his tiny reactor is the only power supply for his burning propulsion? Is it really possible, with just electricity, to keep a suit flying like that at those speeds for that long a time?
pretty much anything is possible, as far as just the idea goes.
The real issue is the qualities of the material.
You have to consider that for such a suit you would need a hell lot of very small mechanical parts that have to hold out a lot of stress, like small servomotors but eventually with immense power behind it. - thats why current power armors only amplify the users power.
I could imagine that a suit for it self, just to build it isn't even the real problem. Certain military and civilian projects already go in that direction (somewhat), just google power armor or type it in youtube, its very interesting how far the technology is already. There is also the idea of artifical muscles that actually have the "potential" of beeing 10 or even 100 times the strength of human muscles. if I remember correctly.
But as far as the stuff goes we see in movies or games and the like, I would not be surprised if the problem here isnt eve nto build that stuff but the power transmission, imagine it as something like Ghost in the Shell, if you remember the scene where the Cyborg is trying to open the hatch of a tank with her bare hands but she ends up tearing her own artificial arms apart because the force behind the muscles was simply to much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6fQ4umUW4Y&feature=player_detailpage#t=307
As a matter of fact, our body has a lot of limitations by our brain to prevent our muscles causing damage to the joints which are a natural weak point compared to the solid bones. When those limitations are suspended, for example by someone who has epileptic shock you can actually see what real power the human muscles can have.
A mechanical issue that is maybe known to some with heavy tanks from WW2. Tanks like the Tiger 2, or Landbehemoths like the Maus that would crawl around with 70 tons and in the case of the Maus 188 tons. To get those things to move around wasn't even the problem, its the gearbox and the power transmission that caused a lot of problems, if the Tiger 2 was actually correctly maintained and the driver experienced then the machine was just as reliable like most other German tanks, in other words good. But driving the tank to the limits was a lot of stress because neither the engine nor the gearbox and the other mechanical parts have been made for tanks that had more then 20 or 30 tons of weight, and now you use them for a tank that had almost 3 times the weight. Today this isn't so much of an issue anymore simply because the materials, metallurgy and mechanics has advanced, the way how the transmission works and all that. Thats why the Leopard 2 that has pretty much the same weight like the Tiger 2 can move around with 70 km/h while the Tiger 2 only with 20 km/h eventually.
But I am afraid, that the kind of materials we would need to make a suit, like we saw them in Iron Man, where he can lift cars and who knows what else simply don't exist. At least not yet. And its rather questionable if those materials will happen to show up in the near future. I am really not some expert on metallurgy nor with physics. But there is a certain limit for every material as far as the stress goes, and you simply cant take something like a servo motor build it with the size of a small bolt and then use it to withstand the power of several tons.
The real issue is the qualities of the material.
You have to consider that for such a suit you would need a hell lot of very small mechanical parts that have to hold out a lot of stress, like small servomotors but eventually with immense power behind it. - thats why current power armors only amplify the users power.
I could imagine that a suit for it self, just to build it isn't even the real problem. Certain military and civilian projects already go in that direction (somewhat), just google power armor or type it in youtube, its very interesting how far the technology is already. There is also the idea of artifical muscles that actually have the "potential" of beeing 10 or even 100 times the strength of human muscles. if I remember correctly.
But as far as the stuff goes we see in movies or games and the like, I would not be surprised if the problem here isnt eve nto build that stuff but the power transmission, imagine it as something like Ghost in the Shell, if you remember the scene where the Cyborg is trying to open the hatch of a tank with her bare hands but she ends up tearing her own artificial arms apart because the force behind the muscles was simply to much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6fQ4umUW4Y&feature=player_detailpage#t=307
As a matter of fact, our body has a lot of limitations by our brain to prevent our muscles causing damage to the joints which are a natural weak point compared to the solid bones. When those limitations are suspended, for example by someone who has epileptic shock you can actually see what real power the human muscles can have.
A mechanical issue that is maybe known to some with heavy tanks from WW2. Tanks like the Tiger 2, or Landbehemoths like the Maus that would crawl around with 70 tons and in the case of the Maus 188 tons. To get those things to move around wasn't even the problem, its the gearbox and the power transmission that caused a lot of problems, if the Tiger 2 was actually correctly maintained and the driver experienced then the machine was just as reliable like most other German tanks, in other words good. But driving the tank to the limits was a lot of stress because neither the engine nor the gearbox and the other mechanical parts have been made for tanks that had more then 20 or 30 tons of weight, and now you use them for a tank that had almost 3 times the weight. Today this isn't so much of an issue anymore simply because the materials, metallurgy and mechanics has advanced, the way how the transmission works and all that. Thats why the Leopard 2 that has pretty much the same weight like the Tiger 2 can move around with 70 km/h while the Tiger 2 only with 20 km/h eventually.
But I am afraid, that the kind of materials we would need to make a suit, like we saw them in Iron Man, where he can lift cars and who knows what else simply don't exist. At least not yet. And its rather questionable if those materials will happen to show up in the near future. I am really not some expert on metallurgy nor with physics. But there is a certain limit for every material as far as the stress goes, and you simply cant take something like a servo motor build it with the size of a small bolt and then use it to withstand the power of several tons.
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
Akratus said:
Considering he invented (in a day!) a technology that would revolutionize energy just as much, if not more, than nuclear fission had IN A CAVE, WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS, I'd say any sort of attempt to apply real-world physics to our friend Tony's magical orb is doomed to failure. Albeit there's implications that it's based on his daddy's work on the Tesseract, which is firmly magic technology, but he still managed to macgyver an almost endless source of energy from a missile and a toolbox. These guys at Project Manhattan are total losers compared to him. Anyway, as far as we know, na it's not really possible. I mean, the guy does international flights with that suit, at speeds rivaling a jet fighter it looks like. The energy demands would be ginormous.
As for the powered armor, yeah it's sci-fi without much basis in reality. Some have suggested some sort of kinetic foam could protect the wearer from bullets, but the thing would still be promptly turned to scrap by missiles, RPGs, hell even a boring old grenade or IEDs. And if they give them those FO2 or Space Marine-like helmets with 0 peripheral vision, you can be sure as hell anyone with two brancells to rub together will attack from the suit's utterly vulnerable rear, cut some air cable and laugh as he guy suffocates in his own fart. There's a reason no modern-day helmet looks like that at all.
In the Avengers movie, he falls down from the black hole. Hulk catches him and then Thor removes his face plate. You can clearly see that there is NO, in other words ZERO gap between his forhead and the inner surface of the suit. In Iron Man 2 he does a head butt with gigantic force. If he did that with the suit mechanic reveald in Avengers, his brain would simply come out of his nose. The only way to overcome this would be to suspend the user inside the suit in a gel that would hold the user in place, not allowing the user to make phsycal contact with the inner surface of the suit. With the attacks, the force he's using this is impossible.
Space Marines are a total different story. They are FAR more advanced than a regular Power Armor or a Iron Man suit just because it allows the user (Marine) to have the armor act as a second skin. The hearing and vision is altered. That armor allows a marine to take so much punishment. Although there's a long process and (the black carapase, organs like 3rd lung, 2nd heart, etc..). Space Marine armor is simply skin tighted with a suit and padding under it. No magic there. Iron Man, with nothing between himself and the suit, kicks and punches tanks and shite where Space Marines would actually do the same with an explenation.
For the fart problem, I'm sure there's a purge option that would allow the user to remove the air inside the suit and suck air from the out side into the tanks and filters. Simple huh? LOL
Also, according to the Courier the T series power armor eye slits are bullet proof (honest hearts). EYE SLITS? An advanced suit with a 100 year power supply and they wanted the user to look out with two tiny eye slits? That's nice! Just have someone throw a bucket of paint at the guy and he's all blind!
Space Marines are a total different story. They are FAR more advanced than a regular Power Armor or a Iron Man suit just because it allows the user (Marine) to have the armor act as a second skin. The hearing and vision is altered. That armor allows a marine to take so much punishment. Although there's a long process and (the black carapase, organs like 3rd lung, 2nd heart, etc..). Space Marine armor is simply skin tighted with a suit and padding under it. No magic there. Iron Man, with nothing between himself and the suit, kicks and punches tanks and shite where Space Marines would actually do the same with an explenation.
For the fart problem, I'm sure there's a purge option that would allow the user to remove the air inside the suit and suck air from the out side into the tanks and filters. Simple huh? LOL
Also, according to the Courier the T series power armor eye slits are bullet proof (honest hearts). EYE SLITS? An advanced suit with a 100 year power supply and they wanted the user to look out with two tiny eye slits? That's nice! Just have someone throw a bucket of paint at the guy and he's all blind!
Dienan said:
I'd like to see you get close enough to someone wearing power armor and holding a gatling laser to do that.
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
Courier said:
Admit it, waves of Raiders/Chitauri/Orks running at a guy in PA with buckets of paint would be hilarious.
While inside the armor, your FOV is limited (60 degs is my bet) and you can catch fast movements in the corner of your eye as it works with co-op with the ears. If this was in an urban area, where FOV is the line between a shot gun blast to the face and survival I bet even a Fiend would go running with a water gun full of black paint. Just a desparate attempt to take down a titanic enemy. Fiends would definitly do that. Slavers in Paradise Falls took down a soldier in power armor with I don't know, some weapon. I bet the reavers knew a counter attack to disable a power armor. They are so crazy..Courier said:
for the case you didn't mention it already, but we should also not forget that as far as the space marines in 40k goes, they are all engineered super humans as well. This alone probably gives them a lot of resistance as well.Dienan said:
It totally does give them the ability to punch through a human and kick a car off the road if they wanted. While having these super human strength they are also vulnerable as any other human is. In the games when they die they are shown as nothing but chunks of meat. That's what keep reminding them what they are and that's why they fight, we are not immortal. Anyway 40k power armor is a self contained suit. I bet someone as simple as 'The Force Commander' would be able to go HtH with Tony's Igor (Egor?) heavy lift suit. Since they are already super human, an American soldier in power armor is no where close to a space marine. How did the American power armor project became a sucsess? Chinese stealth armor is a far more advanced system. However in a all out war situation, stealth would be useless against invading walking human tanks. If they used it properly, Power Armor would be useless against the red army as PA would take out the users preception which would allow the stealth suit operator to deliver devastating attacks from range while being undetected. Since Anchorage was done in favour for the US army, stealth suit operaters were given poor AI in the game. Merely crouching but doing nothing. You can see the true potential of the suit against anything in the wasteland when you deploy it yourself. IMO chinese stealth suit had 180-200 deg FOV while PA doing 60-70 degs through tiny eye slits. The difference is death when you can't hear anything and looking through a tiny hole in the wall. Iron Man? God only knows where he gets all that environmental feedback in real time. Atleast he has a retractable face plate..
The Iron Man movies cut out quite a bit for purposes of streamlining, and the Iron Man of the comics actually makes use of a lot of the things he's been called out here as lacking. On a basic level, you have to remember that the suit's energy weapon technology and propulsion systems are actually both manifestation's of Stark's inertia-nullifying repulsor technology, and that he's got micro-repulsors in every single component of the suit. On top of that, the pilot of any suit based on Iron Man technology has to wear a skin-tight undersuit to protect them and facilitate mental interfacing with the armor, so we can probably use those two to handwave the impact/inertia issue under the same reasoning that lets you give Space Marines a pass (except for the facial area, which is traditionally left bare).
Tony Stark himself takes things even further, though. Like the space marines, he's genetically engineered to interface with his technology. He's used nanomachines to strengthen and enhance himself in every possible way to make him the ideal biological chassis for the suit, from changing the composition of his bones and tissues to enhancing his reflexes and processing speed to machine levels. He's even built wiring into himself on the cellular level that allows him to interface with and command the suit as if it were a direct physical and neurological extension of his own (highly augmented) body, and his brain is set up to wirelessly access (and where applicable, use or perceive through) any device that can send/recieve signals. Constant access to Stark Industries' computer and satellite networks and the processing speed for his brain to handle it without bottlenecking go a long way towards helping explain the occasional bout of omniscience.
Could we build it? Hell no. But between the gene-rewriting nanomachines, the physics-pooh-poohing repulsor fields, the nigh-indestructible shell and the bottomless clean-burning reactor strapped to his chest, I'm not sure that's a mystery we need much analysis to get to the bottom of, no offense.
Tony Stark himself takes things even further, though. Like the space marines, he's genetically engineered to interface with his technology. He's used nanomachines to strengthen and enhance himself in every possible way to make him the ideal biological chassis for the suit, from changing the composition of his bones and tissues to enhancing his reflexes and processing speed to machine levels. He's even built wiring into himself on the cellular level that allows him to interface with and command the suit as if it were a direct physical and neurological extension of his own (highly augmented) body, and his brain is set up to wirelessly access (and where applicable, use or perceive through) any device that can send/recieve signals. Constant access to Stark Industries' computer and satellite networks and the processing speed for his brain to handle it without bottlenecking go a long way towards helping explain the occasional bout of omniscience.
Could we build it? Hell no. But between the gene-rewriting nanomachines, the physics-pooh-poohing repulsor fields, the nigh-indestructible shell and the bottomless clean-burning reactor strapped to his chest, I'm not sure that's a mystery we need much analysis to get to the bottom of, no offense.
looks like we have a fan here, you sure know a lot about it.
Since you pointed out, I must say (please don't laugh) Lockheed Martin (yeah, the F22 guys) are working on a suit that would function like one of Tony's suits. I really wish they'd end up not breaking a man in two in the process. I'm not saying they are making a charged particle firing 15kg suit of armor that would allow a person to reach speeds as M4 while in the suit.
Crni Vuk said:
My fandom begins and ends with watching the cartoon a bit as a kid and owning one trade paperback volume of the comic. I'm just uselessly talented at retaining details about other people's pretend worlds. I do seem to remember reading on a wiki somewhere that someone hacked into the nanomachines once to genetically recode him as a woman, so there's that.