Is it possible to mod in fleeing into random encounters?

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Not Lost Hope, Nov 28, 2010.

  1. Not Lost Hope

    Not Lost Hope First time out of the vault

    Mar 26, 2010
    Since random encounters (=looted guns) are what break Fallout(2)'s economics, I'm wondering whether it would be possible to make them a little less rewarding. So is it possible and how much effort would it take to add in scripts or something that would make slavers/thugs/mobsters/whatever run away after a couple of rounds of combat, if it looks like things aren't going there way?

    A floating text such as: "This ain't worth it!" or "I didn't sign up for this!" would come up, end combat, short screen fade, and enemies still alive would disappear.

    The first few rounds of combat in random encounters are the most dangerous, because there are many opponents shooting at you, it gets easier as you kill them and the last couple are just free xp and loot. Removing that free xp and loot would be what I'm going for with this. So unless you totally waste the enemies and kill them all very fast they would have the sense to run away from a superior opponent.

    Possibly throw in a "Grab the guns and go!" floater as well and clear the dead bodies of guns as well...
  2. smilodom

    smilodom Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Apr 17, 2008
    Good idea for balancing the game, and it´s absolutly "Kaga" does in the first rounds.
  3. pelicano

    pelicano It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Jun 14, 2008
    In my opinion it would be in part interesting and in part annoying. Interesting because it could add realist behavior to the dumb AI. Annoying because, well, fighting running cowards it's not fun.

    The AI already has in place the possibility of running away but only on critter basis and not the whole group, and even then the NPCs are usually too bad-ass to run away.

    Script wise I see it viable, if only a bit too heavy. You'd have to count all the critters in the encounter, check which group is everyone from, possibly their HP and status, etc. Not counting that scripts in combat mode aren't the most stable and infallible...

    A possible solution for the unbalancing nature of the random encounters, as I see it, would be limiting the items to crappy ones that people aren't interested in sell/buy, more sparse ammunition and no stimpaks and the like. Dunno, something like that.

    Oh, and for X vs Y random encounters, my mod NPCs loot bodies, heh heh.
  4. Faceless Stranger

    Faceless Stranger Board Drifter

    Aug 19, 2010
    If you knock him unconcious, you can still loot him 8-)
  5. DForge

    DForge Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 29, 2006
    Balancing this game seems pointless. It's a system that's not meant to be a stable base for a challenging set of rules. Everything in this game screams abuse. From pickpocketing massive&expensive weapons for ez cash, to badly scaled rewards for super easy tasks (combat shotgun for running through ant-infested mine? Scoped Hunting rifle for running through ant-intested cave?) to endless cash in encounters.

    What would work would be to set the prices of all items you sell to like 1% of the maximum worth. Would be realistic, too - the merchant doesn't need your shotgun, he needs your money. And you're encumbered, carrying a ton of useless junk and probably looking to trade it cheap... Like in real world, merchants want money, not goods). Along with re-scaling quest rewards and NOT giving overly powerful weapons to enemies (leather jacket thugs dying to single eye shot armed with a powerful .223 pistol? yea right)

    That would also beg for fixing the broken combat system, the abusable questline (Hi unguarded APA at Navarro) and other things. Too much work, and it needs EVERYTHING to be modified, unless you just want to remove 1 abuse-able fragment from the game and leave 99 other abuseable fragments, making it a pointless task.

    As for your original idea: Nice, but ultimately not necessary. If you want easy and powerful gear, you run to navarro at level 1. If you want cash, you gamble at den's casino - with LK1 you can get 10000$ after few minutes of selecting everything you can randomly (and reloading if you fail badly - usually not needed though as you will get 1-3k every few games). Getting guns from dead thugs is actually the MOST balanced way of getting stuff in this game - because it at least requires to beat them first. Getting 30000$ in casino requires half of an hour for clicking like mad.

    Also, later in the game, I kill most enemies with a single shot. And with how the AI works, The enemies will run away from ME, not from my team. So I may as well stand and wait till sulik, cassidy and vic blow the runners to the moon. No big deal.
  6. Josan12

    Josan12 Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 15, 2007
    I'd say this is a great idea. I'm sure a global script could handle it, and if you need scripting help i'm sure Pelicano could give you a few pointers as he's a master of globals.

    But alot of players like their easy kills an don't want the game to be challenging so i would imagine it wouldn't be too popular as a concept.
  7. smilodom

    smilodom Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Apr 17, 2008
    Another possibility is that they run away when they are wounded but not "when almost dead"
  8. Not Lost Hope

    Not Lost Hope First time out of the vault

    Mar 26, 2010
    I feel like I had something else to say when I made the thread, but I was in a hurry when I posted it, can't remember...

    You have some solid points there and I agree, sort of. I recently finished a playthrough of VTMB, and while the game is in every way broken and nothing is balanced about it, I liked how pricing was done: weapons would cost 100-400+$ during the game and sell for 5-20$, the price of a clip of ammo mostly.

    Still, there's a difference between exploits/shortcuts like the Navarro APA and random encounters' loot unbalancing the barter system during a normal playthrough. Getting a combat shotty from fixing the mine is one thing, but should you happen to come across a gang near New Reno while travelling to/from Broken Hills you'll end up with half a dozen guns from that quest :wink:

    When playing the game it's easy for me to choose not to spend half an hour clicking at a gambling screen or doing endless save/reload stealing with 10% skill. What's not so easy and somewhat frustrating gameplay is when I have to leave behind valuable guns (worth $1000's) in random encounters, when my companions' and the car's inventories are already full of stuff to sell merchants who don't even have anything interesting to offer.

    More than game balance though, I'd be interested in the increased realism/verisimilitude(I'm not going to use the i-word) it'd bring to the game. Random bandits&robbers in fiction are usually cowards who run away from the hero. It might also be nice if the biggest source of wealth in a post-apoc setting wouldn't be the barren wasteland :lol: There's still places like SAD, MB, Vault 15, Raiders' to clear for phat lewt in the game.

    @Josan: thanks, but there's about a maximum of 0% chance I'm going to do anything or start working on implementing any of this, just discussing ideas, throwing it out there. One class of programming(c++) was mandatory at uni and that was enough for me. I'd rather play games than tinker with them.

    And come on, I've seen work on such concepts as drinking, eating, sleeping and taking a crap done. Surely something that has to do with the BLOOD GUTS AND GORE aspect of the game would find a niche with players 8-) Not that there's anything wrong with drinking, eating, and taking a crap. Some of the best things in life actually.

    EDIT: In fact, I'm going to take a crap now.
  9. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    Abusing game mechanics will always break balance. For example, save/load stealing is not gameplay, it's cheating
  10. Makenshi

    Makenshi Ahoy, ye salty dogs!

    Jul 28, 2006
    considering that the player in attacked by the whole town when is caught cheating, it's very likely that he will die - and thus, reload

    so I say loading after failing a steal attempt is more of a quick way of going back into the game faster than waiting for the game over screen and return to the manu

    still, self imposed rules like "no stealing at all" or "no stealing again after failing and loading" can always be exercised - i did that in my last playthrough, and it was very enjoyable
  11. DForge

    DForge Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Jul 29, 2006
    Easy to fix. Disable save during combat (already done via sfall) and fix combat so that sniper is no longer god mode = problem solved.

    As for gambling, the easiest way would be to put a necessary skill check there. LK 10 = big winnings possible, LK1 = the game forces loss every time you play. Also, after reaching a cap, you can play no longer (you broke the bank) like in New Vegas.

    As for stealing, well, again, stealing shouldn't be random. At very high skill levels you should be able to steal whatever you want! Justification: you will most likely save and re-load (if you plan to play this way) until you do it anyway. So instead of making players do so, remove random roll and make it solely steal-based. Say, to steal something as heavy as gatling laser, you need 250% stealing. Below that, you won't steal it no matter how hard you try. 250% + = you succeed every time.


    Skill rolls in a game that allows save/loads are POINTLESS whether it's fallout, baldur's gate or whatever.
  12. WolfWitness

    WolfWitness First time out of the vault

    Jul 20, 2009
    Er if I remember right you're not supposed to save in combat anyway unless you want to risk corrupting you save files.