Also see the legendary "indigo child" debate. Well, it may not be legendary but it is at least mythical.
Lexx said:The player would only notice that the option he chooses may be a flaw for his later adventure if it is punched in his face in the most obvious way.
Yeah and later in his adventure he says "fuck you, you gave me a bullshit choice" and will not take the path again in a next playthrough.
I am pretty sure there are people who like surprises and don't want to predict the entire game through obvious dialog nodes. Ofcourse the player wants some control over what he does, everyone wants that and not being some baseball constantly crushed back and forth by the game, but there's gotta be some balance between boring choices/paths and debatively "bad" choices who later turn to surprises in the gameplay.
I am not sure if you even get what I mean, I am not talking about giving an instant Game Over screen everytime something goes wrong (even though those older games which did that really rock and have some certain charme), but paths not always leading to "teh bestest" way of solving quests are way more interesting to me than the usual "I am the player and I must always get the best thing" to me, especially when it's an RPG I can play in many different ways with different characters taking different routes.
Another example: Imagine BioShock. Imagine you are saving every child in the game and you get Adam for it as a gift. Woo! Now imagine you kill every child instead and you get less Adam for it. Yeah, it's your choice, but the choice is bullshit, because the later one is gimping you in the longer run.
Yes, surely all RPGs can be broken down to a system where you just take stuff XY or not without different shades inbetween!
But it is? If I can choose from different shades of awesome, the entire point of the "choice" is flawed.
You get a different reward and a different quest / story / world outcome. Why do you want the player to be punished?... Choice is not about putting stones in my way or not putting stones in my way.
Putting rocks in the way or not is ofcourse not the only thing what makes them, but it's part of it. I find games only rewarding but never punishing me for certain things incredibly boring. But since you're throwing rolleyes smileys around I don't think that you're interested in a discussion at all and I'll just leave it right there.
Yes, surely all RPGs can be broken down to a system where you just take stuff XY or not without different shades inbetween!
but paths not always leading to "teh bestest" way of solving quests are way more interesting to me than the usual
You're a munchinkLexx said:What difference is there when each choice I take is some handholding into better stuff/better stats/the npc being my friend or simply nothing?
Why should I chose the path that gives me disadvantages? To gimp myself? What if I don't want to gimp myself? Giving the player a different reward based on his choice, that's what you should do, not punishing him.
Agreed. Different builds should result in different paths through the game but those different paths should offer more or less equal rewards. As Lexx said, the rewards do not and usually should not be the same but should be of equal gameplay value. If anything, the rewards should be tailored to the skill(s) required to get them, meaning that you don't get a big bad gun for sneaking your way through a situation and a Stealth Boy for killing everyone in the same situation.Crni Vuk said:With what I dont agree is that all characters feel alike in the end. Like with Biowhore games (recently ...).
Good so long as you don't get custom loot though. I would not like it if my stealth character defeated a boss and found a poison dagger in his effects, but on a second play, my explosives/heavy weapons PC did the same and found C-4 or a grenade launcher instead ~Same dude, same place, same inventory, and dynamic loot based on class of developed skills.UncannyGarlic said:If anything, the rewards should be tailored to the skill(s) required to get them, meaning that you don't get a big bad gun for sneaking your way through a situation and a Stealth Boy for killing everyone in the same situation.
Threepwood said:Morbus said:thismobucks said:Stop making fps rpgs.
FPS/RPG's have a monumental market. They will not stop being produced. Atleast I hope not; I find it to be a great marriage of genres.