Just got done finishing Fallout 2. My take.

[BurkeAvenger]

***Spoiler warning***
Just finished up Fallout 2 and I've hit level 6 on my Fallout 3 toon.

I think Fallout 2 and Fallout 3 are in different categories. Not gonna play Fallout 1.

Ways Fallout 2 is better.
-Size of the world. It's a huge world.
-Sense of urgency. You're on a timeline the whole time.
-You could visit prostitutes.
-Murder Children.
-Rape your wife.
-The entire idea of your actions having consequences.

Ways Fallout 2 was WORSE.
-Absolutely no immersion due to horrible graphics. It's dated.
-Hexagon movement system not really conductive to computer gaming. Part of the reason the company went bankrupt is because they wanted ot keep using the turn based hex system. Nope. People don't like it, never will.
-Beginning temple was boring.
-Lack of radiation. You could avoid it completely.
-No way to customize your character extensively.

Ways Fallout 3 was better.
-Awesome combat system. VATs is what Black Isle wanted to do with Fallout 2 originally and it merges perfectly with the 3D environment.
-Awesome dialogue. With enough charisma you can manipulate people into doing almost everything for you.
-Immersion. Graphics are awesome. Sound is 10/10. AWESOME. Even all the guns look realistic.
-The way they handled radiation.

Fallout 1 and 2 didn't really have you dealing with constant radiation. What a jip! I remember tons of reviews ripping on them. What's a post nuclear war game WITHOUT constant CONSTANT management of radiation? NOTHING that's what.

Ways Fallout 3 was worse.
-Terrible writing. The part where you watch your dad get killed by Enclave is absolutely terrible and ripped straight out of HL2. THE PRESIDENT of ENCLAVE is a COMPUTER MACHINE? OH WOW! :rolleyes:

Fallout 3 was pretty good with a lot of good memorable moments but I actually stumbled across the final questline before I hit level 7 and I ended up poisoning the well.

 

[Tygernoot]

Please put spoiler tags. Crap, why do I read these forums. Now I know the ending

Not gonna play Fallout 1.

Fallout 1 and 2 didn't really have you dealing with constant radiation. What a jip! I remember tons of reviews ripping on them. What's a post nuclear war game WITHOUT constant CONSTANT management of radiation? NOTHING that's what.

How can you say that about Fallout 1 if you've never played it? :p In any case, Fallout 1 was a bit better with the radiation though. There were a few locations where you could get radiated.

** edit **
Aha, you put a spoiler warning on top. Missed that one

 

[BurkeAvenger]

Please put spoiler tags. Crap, why do I read these forums. Now I know the ending

** edit **
Aha, you put a spoiler warning on top. Missed that one

You missed it Don't worry that's one of the big twists but it's not the ending.

 

[Sander]

-Sense of urgency. You're on a timeline the whole time.

No you're not.
It may seem like it, though, but there's no time limit.

-Absolutely no immersion due to horrible graphics. It's dated.

Judging an 11-year old game on the detail of its graphics is a pretty stupid idea.

-Hexagon movement system not really conductive to computer gaming. Part of the reason the company went bankrupt is because they wanted ot keep using the turn based hex system. Nope. People don't like it, never will.

Hahahahaha.
Oh man.
This is so misinformed I can't even begin to describe it.

First of all, the hexagonal system was there because of GURPS and worked very well for what it tried to do. People liked it at the time, so your comment of people not liking it is also retarded. Hell, everyone who plays GURPS likes it.

Secondly, the hexagonal system wasn't used after Fallout 2 and had nothing to do with Interplay's demise.

-Awesome combat system. VATs is what Black Isle wanted to do with Fallout 2 originally and it merges perfectly with the 3D environment.

Ehm, no, VATS was not what Black Isle wanted to do originally. At all. What they wanted to do originally, was in the game.

-No way to customize your character extensively.

If you mean graphically, then ys. If you mean gameplay wise, Fallout 2 gave you more and better options than Fallout 3.

-Awesome dialogue. With enough charisma you can manipulate people into doing almost everything for you.

Ehm, no you can't. In fact, Speech and Charisma are relatively irrelevant since almost everything can be done in some other way.

And, again, Fallout 2 went much further in this respect.

-Immersion. Graphics are awesome. Sound is 10/10. AWESOME. Even all the guns look realistic.

When you actually compare it to contemporary games, you'll note that the graphics are significantly worse.

Also, sound is definitely worse in Fallout 3 than in Fallout 2.

Fallout 1 and 2 didn't really have you dealing with constant radiation. What a jip! I remember tons of reviews ripping on them. What's a post nuclear war game WITHOUT constant CONSTANT management of radiation? NOTHING that's what.

You remember tons of reviews ripping Fallout 1 and 2?
What world have you lived in?

 

[BurkeAvenger]

-Sense of urgency. You're on a timeline the whole time.

No you're not.
It may seem like it, though, but there's no time limit.

-Absolutely no immersion due to horrible graphics. It's dated.

Judging an 11-year old game on the detail of its graphics is a pretty stupid idea.

-Hexagon movement system not really conductive to computer gaming. Part of the reason the company went bankrupt is because they wanted ot keep using the turn based hex system. Nope. People don't like it, never will.

Hahahahaha.
Oh man.
This is so misinformed I can't even begin to describe it.

First of all, the hexagonal system was there because of GURPS and worked very well for what it tried to do. People liked it at the time, so your comment of people not liking it is also retarded. Hell, everyone who plays GURPS likes it.

Secondly, the hexagonal system wasn't used after Fallout 2 and had nothing to do with Interplay's demise.

-Awesome combat system. VATs is what Black Isle wanted to do with Fallout 2 originally and it merges perfectly with the 3D environment.

Ehm, no, VATS was not what Black Isle wanted to do originally. At all. What they wanted to do originally, was in the game.

-No way to customize your character extensively.

If you mean graphically, then ys. If you mean gameplay wise, Fallout 2 gave you more and better options than Fallout 3.

-Awesome dialogue. With enough charisma you can manipulate people into doing almost everything for you.

Ehm, no you can't. In fact, Speech and Charisma are relatively irrelevant since almost everything can be done in some other way.

And, again, Fallout 2 went much further in this respect.

-Immersion. Graphics are awesome. Sound is 10/10. AWESOME. Even all the guns look realistic.

When you actually compare it to contemporary games, you'll note that the graphics are significantly worse.

Also, sound is definitely worse in Fallout 3 than in Fallout 2.

Fallout 1 and 2 didn't really have you dealing with constant radiation. What a jip! I remember tons of reviews ripping on them. What's a post nuclear war game WITHOUT constant CONSTANT management of radiation? NOTHING that's what.

You remember tons of reviews ripping Fallout 1 and 2?
What world have you lived in?

Sorry I should have clarified.

In Fallout 2, the quests always kept you on the move. Although you have more than enough time you always had this sense of urgency because if you didn't return in time, your village was fucked.

Where is that in Falllout 3?

GURPS is not around anymore. I wonder why hmm. I'm glad they abanboned GURPS and went with the FPS route. The only other viable option would have been a RTS and we all know how Fallout Tactics worked out.

If they had the technology they would have made Fallout 3 for sure but yeah.

Speech and Charisma are important if you want to play a smooth talker. Maybe you're the kind of person that just kills everything, but I like to play smart and have different options and trick people. If you don't care about dialogue and influencing people and don't care about speech and Charimsa, uh Halo 3 is THAT way bro

I agree that the dialogue was much better in Fallout 2.

Graphics are fine for me. But then again I have a good computer. If looks like crap on the Xbox or if you're running on DOS lol.

 

[Sander]

GURPS is not around anymore.

GURPS still exists and is arguably the second most successful tabletop role-playing system, after D&D.

I'm glad they abanboned GURPS and went with the FPS route. The only other viable option would have been a RTS and we all know how Fallout Tactics worked out.

Another viable option would've been a turn-based RPG. See this thread for why.

If they had the technology they would have made Fallout 3 for sure but yeah.

Ehm, no. First-person shooters and first-person RPGs existed long, long before Fallout did. The originally design choices to go with an isometric turn-based RPG were exactly that: design choices, not choices forced by some myth of technological limitations.

Speech and Charisma are important if you want to play a smooth talker. Maybe you're the kind of person that just kills everything, but I like to play smart and have different options and trick people. If you don't care about dialogue and influencing people and don't care about speech and Charimsa, uh Halo 3 is THAT way bro

Hey Bro, I have Speech high enough to make every speech check in the game so far (and I'm significantly further in the game than you so have a better model of comparison) and Charisma 8. Most of what it does is give you very small shortcuts or more money. Nothing useful.

Graphics are fine for me. But then again I have a good computer. If looks like crap on the Xbox or if you're running on DOS lol.

I'm running it on the highest settings pal, and almost all contemporary games look significantly better. See Mass Effect and Assassin's Creed, for instance.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

[
GURPS is not around anymore. I wonder why hmm. I'm glad they abanboned GURPS and went with the FPS route. The only other viable option would have been a RTS and we all know how Fallout Tactics worked out.
-----------

Speech and Charisma are important if you want to play a smooth talker. Maybe you're the kind of person that just kills everything, but I like to play smart and have different options and trick people. If you don't care about dialogue and influencing people and don't care about speech and Charimsa, uh Halo 3 is THAT way bro

Graphics are fine for me. But then again I have a good computer. If looks like crap on the Xbox or if you're running on DOS lol.

You failed to read the response. GURPS weren't used in other BIS games, just the fallouts.

------------------

Speech and Charisma are relatively important, but the fact that a lot of dialogue lines make strength or intelligence checks ruins the dam thing. I have a CHA 1 STR 10 character, and am still able to talk people into things most of the time... Shouldn't happen, should it?

-----------------

GFX is not bad. Not exactly good either. I compare it with Witcher, with Unreal 3, with Devil May Cry 4, and I see worse graphics in FO3 than in other modern games. Not to mention how choppy animations look.

 

[Neuron]

-Awesome dialogue. With enough charisma you can manipulate

I stopped reading your post right there.

 

[ShatteredJon]

I have to agee with Ausdoerrt. My second playthrough I have a two Charisma, but bumped up my speech a bit, and am still able to pass the checks. Seems horribly counter-intuitive to me.

As for graphics, I'm an old schooler, and could give a shit less on how shiny a game is.

 

[BurkeAvenger]

GURPS is not around anymore.

GURPS still exists and is arguably the second most successful tabletop role-playing system, after D&D.

Tabletop role-playing systems don't sell well in this day and age unfortunately I can't remember the last time I was able to find a group for D&D. I don't blame them for abandoning GURPs. Like I said, GURPs may be fun, but it won't sell to the mass market and it's a business after all.

I'm glad they abanboned GURPS and went with the FPS route. The only other viable option would have been a RTS and we all know how Fallout Tactics worked out.

Another viable option would've been a turn-based RPG. See this thread for why.
Turn-based RPG would have been much better. HOWEVER, when I'm wandering around the wastelands in FIRST PERSON, it makes it worth my while hehe.

If they had the technology they would have made Fallout 3 for sure but yeah.

Ehm, no. First-person shooters and first-person RPGs existed long, long before Fallout did. The originally design choices to go with an isometric turn-based RPG were exactly that: design choices, not choices forced by some myth of technological limitations.
And I think the logical step up is merging turn-based RPG with FPS, I think it works really well.

Speech and Charisma are important if you want to play a smooth talker. Maybe you're the kind of person that just kills everything, but I like to play smart and have different options and trick people. If you don't care about dialogue and influencing people and don't care about speech and Charimsa, uh Halo 3 is THAT way bro

Hey Bro, I have Speech high enough to make every speech check in the game so far (and I'm significantly further in the game than you so have a better model of comparison) and Charisma 8. Most of what it does is give you very small shortcuts or more money. Nothing useful.
If you don't have enough Speech you have to do a lot of extra work. Need examples? You can just talk to Nova the prostitute in the town and she'll GIVE you the code. No work involved. Speech is amazing indeed. Also, speech is good if you like extra dialogue options. If you have have high enough speech to make every speech check then you obviously don't think it's worthless. Now, CHARISMA on the other hand...

Graphics are fine for me. But then again I have a good computer. If looks like crap on the Xbox or if you're running on DOS lol.

I'm running it on the highest settings pal, and almost all contemporary games look significantly better. See Mass Effect and Assassin's Creed, for instance.

Fallout 3 looks amazing. Personal preference though. Like I said, I have a top end system and monitors to match so your mileage may vary.

 

[Ulysses]

I disagree strongly with your points about the hexagon system and graphics in Fallout 2. The game had turn based combat, and the hexagonal grid makes sense for that, and I doubt that had anything to do with Interplay or BIS' troubles. The graphics are fine, the game's old so obviously it's not taking advantage of DX9 and Shader techs, etc. When I first played in 2003, the graphics didn't put me off one bit.

The Temple bit isn't a thrill a minute, but it's not supposed to, it's the intro part that's supposed to let you get familiar with the system, etc. if you haven't been exposed to it before, and isn't that long anyway if you're already experienced with the system.

 

[BurkeAvenger]

I disagree strongly with your points about the hexagon system and graphics in Fallout 2. The game had turn based combat, and the hexagonal grid makes sense for that, and I doubt that had anything to do with Interplay or BIS' troubles. The graphics are fine, the game's old so obviously it's not taking advantage of DX9 and Shader techs, etc. When I first played in 2003, the graphics didn't put me off one bit.

The Temple bit isn't a thrill a minute, but it's not supposed to, it's the intro part that's supposed to let you get familiar with the system, etc. if you haven't been exposed to it before, and isn't that long anyway if you're already experienced with the system.

I'm more used to the traditional Japanese grid system. Much more effective in my opinion.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

^ I'd say the two are about the same. The grid system is a bit more intuitive, if that's what you mean.

 

[Sander]

Fallout 3 looks amazing. Personal preference though. Like I said, I have a top end system and monitors to match so your mileage may vary.

Which part of 'I'm running it at the highest settings' did you not understand? It looks, very simply, much worse than contemporary games. E.g. Mass Effect and Assassin's Creed.
Hell, anyone who's played those games can see that.

The Temple bit isn't a thrill a minute, but it's not supposed to, it's the intro part that's supposed to let you get familiar with the system, etc. if you haven't been exposed to it before, and isn't that long anyway if you're already experienced with the system.

Everyone hates the Temple, though.

 

[BurkeAvenger]

^ I'd say the two are about the same. The grid system is a bit more intuitive, if that's what you mean.

That's what I meant. It's a shame because personally I think the hex system allows for much more flexibility at least outside of the computer gaming world I mean, but for the Joe Six Pack gamer, I think the concept of there being more than 4 sides was too much for them to handle.

 

[Ulysses]

Everyone hates the Temple, though.

Well true it's not that long to cause the game to suffer for it, was my point

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Dam, sometimes I wish FO3 was made by a Japanese company. Even if it was by CAPCOM and looked like RE I'd rather have that that Beth's FO3.

 

[Per]

BurkeAvenger, trim your quotes when replying.

 

[cratchety ol joe]

GURPS is not around anymore. I wonder why hmm. I'm glad they abanboned GURPS and went with the FPS route. The only other viable option would have been a RTS and we all know how Fallout Tactics worked out.

Sorry, not worth trying to argue with any points raised here, Becuase

A; GURPS IS still around.
B; Other than D20 (which imho limits role-play games into stat crunching) GURPS is the finest system ever known to role players.

and 3, well I simply Ignored any other words that were written for fear they'd show and equal lack of intellect.

 

[SoberCounsel]

Fallout 3 looks amazing. Personal preference though. Like I said, I have a top end system and monitors to match so your mileage may vary.

Which part of 'I'm running it at the highest settings' did you not understand? It looks, very simply, much worse than contemporary games. E.g. Mass Effect and Assassin's Creed.
Hell, anyone who's played those games can see that.

The Temple bit isn't a thrill a minute, but it's not supposed to, it's the intro part that's supposed to let you get familiar with the system, etc. if you haven't been exposed to it before, and isn't that long anyway if you're already experienced with the system.

Everyone hates the Temple, though.

You know I tried to contradict you but I couldn't. I hate that fucking temple.

@Burke

I honestly couldn't tell if you were joking or not about the graphics in Fallout 3 being awesome. And those guns.. last time I checked, if a gun is being held together by duct tape then it's not going to fire more than a couple of times before jamming or back-firing. Realistic my arse. You can't get away with that kind of oversight these days.