Keeping faith in Fallout 3

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
Orderite
David Wilgoose from the Official XBox Magazine has updated his blog with some thoughts after playing a bit of Fallout 3 in Bethesda's office (and yes, we are to expect a wave of hands-on previews soon from preferred magazines & sites invited by Bethesda, followed by hands-on previews done at E3).<blockquote>Bethesda has to combat all these factors. They have to bring a new Fallout into a world where multi-platform development is vital; where RPGs flounder without production values as high as the next big budget FPS; where many of the play mechanics of the original games now seem anachronistic; and where Bethesda has charted out their own successful course of what a role-playing game can be.

Other games and developers have survived such battles though, and perhaps more often than you think. Ion Storm took over development duties from Looking Glass for the third Thief game, although there was certainly some cross-pollination between the companies. Still, Thief: Deadly Shadows turned out to be quite a different experience to what the Looking Glass folks had envisaged. It kept some of the open world structure of the original design, but reined it back and applied a more discrete mission progression. Ion Storm were faced with the additional challenge of developing for a console as well as PC which no doubt had an impact, especially from a technology point of view. But ultimately, Deadly Shadows was a genuine Thief game, just served with superior lighting and some minor tweaks to the mechanics.

In a similar vein, Obsidian assumed responsibility from Bioware for both Neverwinter Nights and Knight of the Old Republic. Those guys had worked closely together at Interplay’s Black Isle RPG division and the development of both series continued fairly seamlessly. Fundamentally, the sequels really aren’t that different and, for the most part, merely benefit from newer technology.</blockquote>He continues listing a lot of examples of franchises successfully changing hands and style, but for some reason completely fails to discuss the many times such things have failed painfully, such as for example X-Com: Enforcer or Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude.

Link: Keeping Faith in Fallout: What happens when our favourite games change hands on Unified Ammo.

Spotted on F3:APNB.
 
Has there ever been a game, in the same series not classified as a spin off, changed as much as Fallout 3 will be from its predecessors?

Unless you count X-com, and those commander and conquer FPS games I would have to say no. And both of those were pretty clearly called spin offs.

It is disingenuous to compare Fallout 3 to the Obsidian games, as they were pretty much direct sequels. They built on what they had with little change to the gameplay itself.
 
For me, based on what I’ve seen of Fallout 3, the nearest comparison is with Retro Studios taking on Metroid. Although Retro certainly didn’t have the pedigree of Bethesda when they took on the project, they opted for overhauling the existing template to the same degree. Metroid Prime was just about as perfect a re-imagining of the series as you could have hoped for, regardless of your personal position on the 2D vs 3D debate. The move to first-person afforded a new perspective on a familiar world that resulted in a freshness and originality that another side-scrolling iteration would not have achieved.


I could be mistaken, but as far as I know Retro Studios were actually developing a Metroid sequel which wouldn't be first person, but Shigeru Miyamoto went over there and overthrew most of what they had done and told them to remake it in FPP. With Miyamoto overlooking things, there's usually quality as a result. I would never expect such competence from those who made the, IMO, rather shallow and unstable Morrowind (though it still had some good qualities).

Also, the Metroid Prime games actually became more story-driven (IMO, at least) and slightly more complex than the older Metroid games, not the other way around. It was a while since I played the old Metroid games now, but I can't remember anything really being taken away (apart from the perspective) in the MP series, only more things being added to an already good mix.

Finally, I'd call them more of an FP adventure game series with some shooting involved than some sort of FPS with tacked on RPG elements, which seems to be what Bethesda is doing with Fallout 3... :(
 
stingray420 said:
Has there ever been a game, in the same series not classified as a spin off, changed as much as Fallout 3 will be from its predecessors?

Sure, a favorite series of mine are the Panzer Dragoon games. (If you count them as post apoc then it bumps Fallout's setting into 2nd place) The 1st, 2nd and 4th games were all excellent 360 degree railshooters and the 3rd was one of the best JRPGs ever made. That seems a signifigantly larger gap gameplay wise than what I've seen from Fallout 3.
 
stingray420 said:
Has there ever been a game, in the same series not classified as a spin off, changed as much as Fallout 3 will be from its predecessors?

Axis & Allies was a great old TB tabletop wargame. Was translated into video games very successfully a few times. The last iteration was as a generic WWII RTS clone, which created quite a furor - why bother calling it A&A if you're going to gut the gameplay that it's known for? The name means nothing to the RTS crowd, and for those who the name means something, well, the games been stripped of that.
 
Spotted on F3:APNB.

This page speaks the truth.

And may I note that I was one of those that brought up a Diablo(2) possible successor comparison to FO 3. You can also call Titan Quest conservative for that matter Bethesda. Obviously they did have the tech and money to make it 1st person too if they wanted.

But no, they just had to be "conservative". Bethesda production team must be thinking: "What the hell is wrong with these guys?" now.

Couldn't be happier that Boyarsky is involved. Everyone involved in Fallout knows how to make appealing to the original fans games.
 
stingray420 said:
Has there ever been a game, in the same series not classified as a spin off, changed as much as Fallout 3 will be from its predecessors?

You mean like Metal Gear to Metal Gear Solid? There I like the changes.
 
What, is the author of that article smoking crack? Neverwinter Nights 2 was a huge disappointment.

Two directions to take, good and evil, and each one involves the same fucking quests with different reasons/dialogue. Ugh.
 
The original campaign in both NWN and NWN2 sucked. But MotB is much better than any of the NWN1 expansions.
 
Bethesda has to combat all these factors. They have to bring a new Fallout into a world where multi-platform development is vital; where RPGs flounder without production values as high as the next big budget FPS

What does that have to do with viewing perspective or the way the game's combat works ? A game can use pseudo-ISO perspective, strategic turn-based combat, and have a multi-million dollar budget.

verything I’ve seen so far points towards Bethesda accomplishing both those objectives. More often than not, change is nothing to be afraid of.

Thanks for that golden nugget of condescending life advice, mister !

After all, wasn’t the original Fallout merely a modern update of Interplay’s own Wasteland? And that seemed to work out quite well.

Fallout was inspired by Wasteland, but it never called itself an official sequel to Wasteland.

I can make a post-nuclear platformer and say it was inspired by Fallout, and nobody will say a peep unless I actually buy the rights to Fallout and name my platformer FALLOUT 4.

Not to mention... Fallout/Wasteland never betrayed the principle of having an overhead viewing perspective that is required for meaningful implementation of turn-based combat mechanics.

Closer to the mark, Ubisoft’s Prince of Persia revivals almost replicate what Bethesda is doing with Fallout, and not just because of the similar time difference between original and sequel. You can see a clear evolution from 2D to 3D in which many of the defining tenets – the fluid animation, the balance of platforming and combat, the distinct aesthetic – have survived intact.

Prince of Persia's game mechanics were superficial, easy to replicate, and its main novelty was the fluid animation, which, indeed, is NOT hard to replicate in this day and age.

The game was practically a clean slate to start with.

Fallout's multitude of subtle game mechanics was literally one thousand times deeper than that of some stupid platformer. It is not a clean slate.

For me, based on what I’ve seen of Fallout 3, the nearest comparison is with Retro Studios taking on Metroid. Although Retro certainly didn’t have the pedigree of Bethesda when they took on the project, they opted for overhauling the existing template to the same degree. Metroid Prime was just about as perfect a re-imagining of the series as you could have hoped for, regardless of your personal position on the 2D vs 3D debate. The move to first-person afforded a new perspective on a familiar world that resulted in a freshness and originality that another side-scrolling iteration would not have achieved.

Another comparison of simple platformer game mechanics being directly transferred to their equally simple equivalents in 3D.

I think a distinctly more accurate comparison would be that between "Command & Conquer : Red Alert 2" and "Command & Conquer: Renegade".

Fallout 3 being the latter. A "reimagining" if you will. With a "new perspective". One, that, unlike Renegade, claims to be a true sequel.
 
For me, based on what I’ve seen of Fallout 3, the nearest comparison is with Retro Studios taking on Metroid. Although Retro certainly didn’t have the pedigree of Bethesda when they took on the project, they opted for overhauling the existing template to the same degree. Metroid Prime was just about as perfect a re-imagining of the series as you could have hoped for, regardless of your personal position on the 2D vs 3D debate. The move to first-person afforded a new perspective on a familiar world that resulted in a freshness and originality that another side-scrolling iteration would not have achieved.

Super Metroid was the best, you Blasphemer!
Like that time, when, the baby metroid comes and eats away your life. And later, you're getting beatdown by the mother-roid and the baby metroid, is like, "Nah uh, girlfriend", and saves your life. And the mother-roid kills it[sob], and you get all pissed, and shoot her face off with your super maternity beams.

Yeah... That game was great.
 
I wonder how long after FO3 is released a mod called "FO3 How It Should Have Been" is started. The first thing would be to remodel the ogre into an actual super mutant, then turn the zombies into Ghouls.
 
Why would they release modding tools when their main focus is on the xbox 360 crowd instead of the PC?

I don't know of anyone who mods console games, and Bethesda probably can't imagine that someone would want "their game that they made for themselves" to be any different.

It'll be a cold day in hell before they give anyone the opportunity to outshine them by making a Fallout 3 that actually seems more like Fallout, with their own tools.
 
[

Super Metroid was the best, you Blasphemer!
Like that time, when, the baby metroid comes and eats away your life. And later, you're getting beatdown by the mother-roid and the baby metroid, is like, "Nah uh, girlfriend", and saves your life. And the mother-roid kills it[sob], and you get all pissed, and shoot her face off with your super maternity beams.

Yeah... That game was great.[/quote]

Dude those were the days...hehehe.. your so right dam them all for trying to say shit about the old games..

(i enjoy hearing your comments and your humor hahah)

ohh and my opinion on this.. if they will never give us a demo..or anything besides one video..

then why would i want to go buy it? (modding is probably a big no)

i agree that they wouldnt want our mod to "outshine" thier game.. hahah

man that mutant is NO mutant at all...just give him a freaking wooden club (and a name tag that says Tim the TRoll from Middle Earth!)


wow........... so much un needed crap.. thanks bethesdick..
 
Not releasing tools or editors would be suicide for bethesda! oblivion lives on because of the modding capabilities(wich are quite limited and complicated), hell, even morrowind still kicks because of the modding community.
Not releasing F3 with the tools would be like sending the game to the limbo(I just wish they dont release them and go bankrupt :twisted: ).
 
Oh, maybe they'll release it.









... for an additional $39.95.
 
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