Knights, or maybe Smiths?

Silencer

Silencer

Night Watchman
Staff member
Admin
The members of the Brotherhood of Steel responsible for building and maintaining high-tech relics are called "Knights". Does that make sense? Since when do Knights forge and repair their own weapons and armour? Shouldn't they be called, I don't know, "Smiths"?
 
No. Because it would be silly to have a TV show called "Smith Rider".
 
They didn't have that in the Fallout universe, anyway. Although there must have been a game called "Gabriel Smith".

Next poster, please.
 
Not really, because the Brotherhood heirarchy is based in name on Dark Age names, hence the novice-knight-paladin thing. Kind of Warcraft, eh?

The reason they're not smiths is smithing is not all they do. They're upgraded novices. Who the hell would want to be a "smith" after being a novice anyway. Knight makes more sense as a stepping stone towards paladin.
 
It took 8 years for someone to notice...wow. Figures it would be Silencer, such an important person here.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
I don't know Kharn, given you always see them dabbling with powered armour and laser pistols, the name "Knights" seems hardly suitalbe, if melodious. It's the Paladins, and only Paladins who loom menacingly in the wasteland territory or stand guard protecting the bunker.

Perhaps "Squires" would be more accurate - indeed a squire was charged with some duties in respect of a knight's armament.

TVD: It's been bugging me for a long time, I only just remembered to post that.

Also wanted to gravedig the Space Race thread, but I can't think of anything material to add ;)
 
Silencer said:
I don't know Kharn, given you always see them dabbling with powered armour and laser pistols, the name "Knights" seems hardly suitalbe, if melodious. It's the Paladins, and only Paladins who loom menacingly in the wasteland territory or stand guard protecting the bunker.

Perhaps "Squires" would be more accurate - indeed a squire was charged with some duties in respect of a knight's armament.
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Being a squire doesn't really have a positive sound to it either, it implies being lesser than a paladin and lesser than a scholar (was it scholar?).

Oh, Kharn, it's initiate in the Brotherhood, not novice.
 
Sander said:
Being a squire doesn't really have a positive sound to it either, it implies being lesser than a paladin and lesser than a scholar (was it scholar?)
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If Knights are trained to become Paladins then yes, they are lesser, and Scribes are a diferent tale altogether, remember when you can make the choice? I don't think scribes ever become Paladins, although I imagine Elders may be consecrated from any of these groups.
 
Silencer said:
If Knights are trained to become Paladins then yes, they are lesser, and Scribes are a diferent tale altogether, remember when you can make the choice? I don't think scribes ever become Paladins, although I imagine Elders may be consecrated from any of these groups.
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Well, I'd say that scribes are on, more or less, the same level as knights. To then call the knights 'squires' would make them seem subordinate.
And knights aren't necessarily lesser than Paladins, I believe that there were quite a few knights who just remained knights, mainly the guy that has the broken power armor.
 
Well sincerely the ''smith'' doesn't sonds good, i prefer much more knight.

Knights normaly are lesser than Paladin. That's what i see on many games, people talking about and such other things.
 
Paladin doesn't really fit either. If you Google paladin you get this:
holy knight with magical abilities. Most paladins have the ability to heal wounds by touch, or this:
One of Charlemagne’s twelve peers, and by a similar description King Arthur’s knights of the Round Table. The word has been extended to be applied to any medieval champion or knight of distinctive virtue.

So using it as a step up from Knight does not really make sense.

There is also this:

Have Gun Will Travel Theme Song

"Ballad of Paladin" by Johnny Western, Richard Boone, and Sam Rolfe
Performed by Johnny Western

Have Gun Will Travel reads the card of a man.
A knight without armor in a savage land.
His fast gun for hire head's the calling wind.
A soldier of fotune is the man called Paladin.

Paladin, Paladin Where do you roam?
Paladin, Paladin, Far, far from home.

He travels on to wherever he must;
A chess knight of silver is his badge of trust.
There are campfire legends that the plainsmen spin
Of the man with the gun,
of the man called Pa-l-l-l-l-a-din

They all seem to refer knight and paladin as the same thing.
 
Ehe. There's a clear difference between Paldin and Knight, in that a knight is a medieval mounted combatant, sometimes there's the connotation of noble as well. A Paladin on the other hand is, to quote the dictionary '

1. A paragon of chivalry; a heroic champion.
2. A strong supporter or defender of a cause: “the paladin of plain speaking” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.).
3. Any of the 12 peers of Charlemagne's court.
', basically a defender and champion, usually heroic.
 
So the Paladin is basically just a really good knight.

So why is it in the BOS you have to be a paladin before you can go out and do battle? Shouldn't the knights be out there too?
 
forddieselguy said:
So the Paladin is basically just a really good knight.

So why is it in the BOS you have to be a paladin before you can go out and do battle? Shouldn't the knights be out there too?
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And now you understand why Silencer started this topic. Ta-da.

Now, I'd say that the BOS based their naming system on old medieval stories carried over through the times, and hey, they had to name those knights something, right?
 
Sander said:
Now, I'd say that the BOS based their naming system on old medieval stories carried over through the times, and hey, they had to name those knights something, right?
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Yes, but it's not exactly a propos... I would still opt for Squires. I would like to see it corrected should the Brotherhood ever make a re-appearanace.
 
So it should be: initiate-novice-knight-paladin. Have the initiate head off to The Glow, for some silly quest, when he comes back he is a novice, does some training, watches some combat videos, fixes and maintains some stuff, gets good enough to become a knight. Then he can go out and kick some butt. If he is really good he gets to be a Paladin and boss everyone else around.

Plus Squire sounds too sissy for the BOS.

Besides, I never liked his music either-"Billy Squire".... :roll:
 
Silencer said:
Yes, but it's not exactly a propos... I would still opt for Squires. I would like to see it corrected should the Brotherhood ever make a re-appearanace.
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No, that'd just break canon and create annoyances amongst players. It's already been established, and to change it now would be unnecessary and annoying. It's not really a problem they're called knights, just a possible inconsistency with previous legends.
Then again, maybe all those stories about knights haven't carried on properly, and they think knights are just mechanics.
Meh, a squire is still nothing but an assistent to a knight, not even to a paladin, so it's not really a good psychological term, really.

And no, forddieselguy, that's not really how it works. The prospective member gets to do some silly (possibly lethal) quest because the elders don't like new people, if he succeeds he becomes an initiate. Novice never comes into the picture.
You then, after some education, get to choose between scribe and knight, knights being the mechanics and scribes the scholars. If you have even more ambition, and opted for knight, you could vie for the place of Paladin and get to wield weapons. For as far as I know, though, this isn't 'forced'.
 
That was just "my" idea of the path to being a Paladin. That's all.
Does anyone really think the BOS will be brought back, I don't. So remaking the stages, In my opinion, is just a topic of discussion that will never lead anywhere. Post your views and be done with it, I guess.

Sander said:Then again, maybe all those stories about knights haven't carried on properly, and they think knights are just mechanics.

Cool. That would make me a knight. 8)
 
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